The Rhythm of War

[Jofwu]

From the Stormlight Book Four Update #2:

Quote

Tentative title: The Rhythm of War, but I'm not 100% on that yet.

The previous working title mentioned (which was explicitly "unlikely" when he shared it) was "The Song of Changes".

Thoughts on the new potential title? Thoughts on how it fits the book's theme? Thoughts on what the in-world text will be about?

[Gasper]

I am not sure about the in-world text, but I think the title refers to how the book will play out in the first couple sections. I think we will see much more of Venli and the various human nations that are being effected by World War Roshar. I think we will see the radiants using their abilities in a more formal war setting, I also think we will see many more radiants. At least 6 3rd Oath or above Windrunners and many more squires, 2-3 Lightweavers, A few Truthwatchers and Edgedancers, and possibly some Stonewards. As for the other Orders, I am not sure. I think we will also see how hard the war is on the Singers. Now that the Fused can return every week or so, I think there will have been a drastic drop in the amount of available meat-puppets for them to inhabit. That could lead to a number of problems for both sides of the conflict. For the Singers, it means that the Fused have to scale back on their offensive until they can breed more hosts or find a way for a Fused to inhabit a human. For Team Radiant, it means that they are having to develop new methods of fighting and possibly practice siege warfare on a level never before seen on Roshar. It might also mean that their technology is having to be developed much more quickly because of the Fused figuring out how to inhabit human bodies and Team Radiant has to find these hosts and kill them.

[Pathfinder]

8 minutes ago, Gasper said:

I am not sure about the in-world text, but I think the title refers to how the book will play out in the first couple sections. I think we will see much more of Venli and the various human nations that are being effected by World War Roshar. I think we will see the radiants using their abilities in a more formal war setting, I also think we will see many more radiants. At least 6 3rd Oath or above Windrunners and many more squires, 2-3 Lightweavers, A few Truthwatchers and Edgedancers, and possibly some Stonewards. As for the other Orders, I am not sure. I think we will also see how hard the war is on the Singers. Now that the Fused can return every week or so, I think there will have been a drastic drop in the amount of available meat-puppets for them to inhabit. That could lead to a number of problems for both sides of the conflict. For the Singers, it means that the Fused have to scale back on their offensive until they can breed more hosts or find a way for a Fused to inhabit a human. For Team Radiant, it means that they are having to develop new methods of fighting and possibly practice siege warfare on a level never before seen on Roshar. It might also mean that their technology is having to be developed much more quickly because of the Fused figuring out how to inhabit human bodies and Team Radiant has to find these hosts and kill them.

I agree with a lot of what you say will be happening, but I have a different reason for why I think it is called Rhythm of War. I think it is in reference to the flashbacks we are going to get of Eshonai, that will then show us the traditions and oral history of the listeners to find out what led to the war between the humans and dawnsingers to begin with. The rhythm of war that called them to arms to defend their homeland against the human invaders, and how they came to ally with odium. That may be too much to reveal so soon in stormlight, so I could be totally wrong, but it was the first thought that came to me. 

[+Hoiditthroughthegrapevine]

Hmmm, not sure I like it. For one it breaks the pattern of each Stormlight Archive title being a reference to an inworld book, and secondly, I was really hoping that this book would go deep into the history of the Singers and was pulling for "The Song of Secrets", as that one sounds like it would have the best information on the Singers' storied past with their gods. I still think we'll be learning a lot about the Last Legion, and probably see Venli and Eshonai's mom in a more lucid state, but a Rhythm is something that qualifies speech, it's not a collection of oral stories about the past. I'm sure we'll see more of the forms of power in book 4, but I really liked the Singer Epigraphs from Words of Radiance and was hoping that we'd get a lot more of them in book 4.

Ultimately, I trust Brandon to make the right call, but this one seems off. I hope Brandon rethinks this...

Edited February 6, 2019 by hoiditthroughthegrapevine

[Nathrangking]

42 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

I agree with a lot of what you say will be happening, but I have a different reason for why I think it is called Rhythm of War. I think it is in reference to the flashbacks we are going to get of Eshonai, that will then show us the traditions and oral history of the listeners to find out what led to the war between the humans and dawnsingers to begin with. The rhythm of war that called them to arms to defend their homeland against the human invaders, and how they came to ally with odium. That may be too much to reveal so soon in stormlight, so I could be totally wrong, but it was the first thought that came to me. 

I actually like this idea a lot!! 

3 minutes ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

Hmmm, not sure I like it. For one it breaks the pattern of each Stormlight Archive title being a reference to an inworld book, and secondly, I was really hoping that this book would go deep into the history of the Singers and was pulling for "The Song of Secrets", as that one sounds like it would have the best information on the Singers storied past with their gods. I still think we'll be learning a lot about the Last Legion, and probably see Venli and Eshonai's mom in a more lucid state, but a Rhythm is something that qualifies speech, it's not a collection of oral stories about the past. I'm sure we'll see more of the forms of power in book 4, but I really liked the Singer Epigraphs from Words of Radiance and was hoping that we'd get a lot more of them in book 4.

Ultimately, I trust Brandon to make the right call, but this one seems off. I hope Brandon rethinks this...

It would be interesting if Brandon would show just how little we know! Maybe this is an in world work. Either something which Venli is writing or maybe there are written texts from the past that have been lost. If so then I would go with something like @Pathfinder's suggestion concerning the cause of the first war between humans and singers.

[Toaster Retribution]

I like it a lot. I am sad that we never got Highprince of War so this can be a good replacement. 

It also teases war all over, which I hope will be the case. Odium vs Dalinar, Venlis potential revolution, Everstorms, a battle at the Peaks... crem will go down in this book.

(though Amaram wont be there to see it :-(  )

[Scion of the Mists]

It would be nice if it was an in-world work, but it'll be really nice to not have two different SoS books.  

[Jofwu]

32 minutes ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

For one it breaks the pattern of each Stormlight Archive title being a reference to an inworld book

He has said that each will be a book title, so I don't see any reason to doubt that's changing.

People seem to assume that it's merely an out-of-world reference to some in-world "Rhythm of War". And of course, being a singer rhythm there's no words to it. But I don't see how that has to be the case at all. The title almost certainly refers to an in-world text which itself is named after in in-world Rhythm of War.

Who wrote the book and what it is about is still a big mystery of course. But I mean, for all we know it could be an in-world Dawnsinger text about the First Desolation. I highly doubt we'll get that information at this point, but you get the idea.

Personally, I really love the idea that it IS an ancient document of some kind that can now be translated from Dawnchant. No basis for this, but I think it would be cool if it was something written by the ancestors of the listeners before they took on dullform. Something that gets rediscovered over the course of the book. Could play along really well, Eshonai's flashbacks, Venli, Rlain, and the missing listeners--all adding up to this idea of rejecting the Fused and Odium.

[+Hoiditthroughthegrapevine]

1 minute ago, Jofwu said:

Personally, I really love the idea that it IS an ancient document of some kind that can now be translated from Dawnchant. No basis for this, but I think it would be cool if it was something written by the ancestors of the listeners before they took on dullform. Something that gets rediscovered over the course of the book. Could play along really well, Eshonai's flashbacks, Venli, Rlain, and the missing listeners--all adding up to this idea of rejecting the Fused and Odium.

I like this idea a lot, consider me converted.

Hopefully this entails Jasnah using her Elsecalling ability to pop over to Kharbranth to pick up the now translatable dawnchant written copy of Rhythm of War from the Palaneum. I really want to see how Elsecalling works.

[Pathfinder]

19 minutes ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

I like this idea a lot, consider me converted.

Hopefully this entails Jasnah using her Elsecalling ability to pop over to Kharbranth to pick up the now translatable dawnchant written copy of Rhythm of War from the Palaneum. I really want to see how Elsecalling works.

I would love an in-depth demonstration, and explanation of transportation and transformation of the elsecallers. Just royally sucks that we may not see that alllllllllll the way till Jasnah's book at the back five. 

[+Hoiditthroughthegrapevine]

That would suck, but still I can't see something as fundamentally useful as Elsecalling not being used before book 10, I just hope we get the POV chapters of it being used.

I also hope that one of my pet theories is true, namely that Ba-Ado-Mishram is in a perfect gem that has been hidden somewhere in Shadesmar, and the Jasnah and some sort of Radiant team (hopefully featuring Zahel) will have to go to Shadesmar to find it. Totally out there, but that would be awesome to see. It's really based on the fact that the Elsecallers were the guardians of the perfcect gems (from the OB Epigraph to chapter 83):

Quote

"As the duly appointed keepers of the perfect gems, we of the Elsecallers have taken the burden of protecting the ruby nicknamed Honor's Drop. Let it be recorded."

 

[Ciridae]

25 minutes ago, Jofwu said:

But I mean, for all we know it could be an in-world Dawnsinger text about the First Desolation. I highly doubt we'll get that information at this point, but you get the idea.

I really like this. At first I thought that it could be a book Venli wrote in the year gap, recounting the history of the listeners. She invented her own script and was telling the Thaylen singers about the listeners at the end of OB, so I figured. But I like your idea much better, I wouldn't want the book to be named after another text written by a main character in the present. I would be pretty frustrated if it were something contemporary. But I would love to see Venli working together with Navani translating old listener texts or songs (if they even have any that are in the dawn chant). 

As for the title itself, I love the sound of it, although I think I would have preferred Song of Secrets just because it sounds like we would learn more juicy stuff. 

[Pathfinder]

45 minutes ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

That would suck, but still I can't see something as fundamentally useful as Elsecalling not being used before book 10, I just hope we get the POV chapters of it being used.

I also hope that one of my pet theories is true, namely that Ba-Ado-Mishram is in a perfect gem that has been hidden somewhere in Shadesmar, and the Jasnah and some sort of Radiant team (hopefully featuring Zahel) will have to go to Shadesmar to find it. Totally out there, but that would be awesome to see. It's really based on the fact that the Elsecallers were the guardians of the perfcect gems (from the OB Epigraph to chapter 83):

 

Oh I think it is going to be used. I just fear we will not get a true PoV experience in learning how to use it in-depth for some time. We may get transportation from Venli, but that is from the Willshaper's perspective of the surge. I am interested in the Elsecallers. Guess I just have to be patient lol. 

edit: interesting theory on Ba-Ado-Mishram. Don't have anything I could say to dispute it, nor anything to add to help support it, but all the same interesting. Hope you are right!

Edited February 6, 2019 by Pathfinder

[Jofwu]

26 minutes ago, Ciridae said:

But I like your idea much better, I wouldn't want the book to be named after another text written by a main character in the present.

My thoughts as well.

I wouldn't HATE another contemporary text, but I DO have a hard time seeing how it wouldn't feel overdone.

[CrazyRioter]

53 minutes ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

That would suck, but still I can't see something as fundamentally useful as Elsecalling not being used before book 10, I just hope we get the POV chapters of it being used.

well we might see some of how Willshapers use Transportation in book 4, with Venli.

[+Hoiditthroughthegrapevine]

28 minutes ago, CrazyRioter said:

well we might see some of how Willshapers use Transportation in book 4, with Venli.

Good point, it's interesting to speculate how all these threads will play out. Like for instance, how long will Venli be masquerading in Envoy form? Another thing I would love to see would be a strikeforce with Jasnah and some other radiants heading out to take back the horneater peaks, opposed by Odium's forces which happen to include Venli. With how dangerous Shadesmar is, and with book 4 being Eshonai's/Venli's book, it seems like Venli apprenticing under Jasnah to learn how the surge of Transportation works would be a narratively compelling way to explain the mechanics of the surge. Also, it would be nice to see how the transition to the Cognitive Realm works just using a shardpool perpendicularity.

I know it's premature, but I'm really starting to get excited for book 4!

[Steel Inquisitive]

The Rhythm of War I like that!

I still like The Rhythm of the Lost but would be fine with this

[+Oltux72]

10 hours ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

Good point, it's interesting to speculate how all these threads will play out. Like for instance, how long will Venli be masquerading in Envoy form?

Masquerading? Why would she change form? If you want to pretend something, Envoyform will serve you well.

[Pathfinder]

15 hours ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

Good point, it's interesting to speculate how all these threads will play out. Like for instance, how long will Venli be masquerading in Envoy form? Another thing I would love to see would be a strikeforce with Jasnah and some other radiants heading out to take back the horneater peaks, opposed by Odium's forces which happen to include Venli. With how dangerous Shadesmar is, and with book 4 being Eshonai's/Venli's book, it seems like Venli apprenticing under Jasnah to learn how the surge of Transportation works would be a narratively compelling way to explain the mechanics of the surge. Also, it would be nice to see how the transition to the Cognitive Realm works just using a shardpool perpendicularity.

I know it's premature, but I'm really starting to get excited for book 4!

Hmmm that is true. I wonder if Venli even can change form at this point considering Timbre has the voidspren held captive. It may even be necessary to remain bonded to the spren to hold the cognitive aspect enough to bond to the radiant spren. In which case, she may remain in envoy form "perminantly"

[StrikerEZ]

Would someone care to copy and paste the update on here? I don’t have access to reddit because my parents have restricted it, so I can’t see the post.

[Greywatch]

@StrikerEZ

Quote

Hey, all. Brandon here, back for another update on your book.

January went well, and the outlining process is moving along. I've set the percentage bar perhaps a little higher than it deserves to be, considering that I plan to get the outline for Book Five done as well y the time that hits 100%, but I haven't started it yet. That said, I'm feeling very good at what I've accomplished so far. I've cracked a few tricky problems in the plotting, ones I anticipate being the toughest parts of the outline--which makes me optimistic that I'm further along than the wordcount might indicate.

I did have to stop to do a quick 3.0 revision on Starsight, the sequel to Skyward, which is coming out in November. That's finished as of around 1:00am this morning. I'll be diving back into Stormlight now, though I'm in LA this week doing pitch meetings for Dark One as a television show. (So far so good, but these are very preliminary-type meetings, so don't expect any big announcements anytime soon.)

Plan is to be finished with the outline of Book Four by March 1st. (Tentative title: The Rhythm of War, but I'm not 100% on that yet.) Then I'll dive into the book.

Writing a Stormlight book is not an easy or quick process. To finish on time, I'll need to do 40k words a month every month this year--which is a tall order. (My average is around 30k a month, though, so it's not impossible.) That would have the first draft done by January 1st, then give me six months of grueling revisions to finish the final draft by July, which would allow a Christmastime release. This isn't set in stone, though, and if I don't meet this schedule the book could slip into the beginning of 2021.

For now, I'm going to solicit a little help from you. While writing Stormlight 3, I built a specific playlist of some of my favorite epic-fantasy-feeling songs. I've posted it before, but if you missed that, find it here.

You can click on my profile to find the similar playlist I made for Skyward. I have been searching through other playlists people have made on Spotify with the right kind of music so I can build a similar playlist for Stormlight 4, but I thought I'd kick the question to you folks as well.

Do you have any suggestions? What songs in specific (songs are better than artists, as I try to keep my playlists varied with only a couple of songs from any one given artist) do you listen to while reading the Stormlight books? What songs would you suggest to me that I listen to while writing the book? (Other than the Kaladin album, of course.)

Generally, I prefer things that have an epic instrumental feel to them--though I don't mind words here and there. And I get tired of things that sound TOO trailer-esque. (Inception sound. Inception sound. Inception sound.

For reference, my favorite song on the Oathbringer playlist--and the one I play in my head at the climax--is Alive by Phil Lober. Anyway, please suggest things for me to put on my playlist. Songs that are on theme, or even songs you just think are epic for whatever reason. (Though do look through the other two playlists I've made first, to double check the song isn't on one of them. I probably won't put any repeats on this playlist.)

And as a final note, I won't be having replies from this thread sent to my inbox, and I don't know if I'll have time for many specific replies to questions. But I do plan a more involved AMA sometime in the near future, where I can answer questions. I will also hop back on the thread at some point and grab the suggested songs.

Anyway, I'll give you another update when the outline is finished. Until then, Journey before Destination.

 

[StrikerEZ]

@Greywatch Thank you so much!

[Calderis]

@hoiditthroughthegrapevine

Personally, I don't think that it being a Listener song would break with the theme at all. Even if it wasn't a physical book until this point. 

The Listeners only developed writing after meeting the Humans. They were a people with an oral history. The songs were their books. 

Edited February 8, 2019 by Calderis

[What's a Seawolf?]

I was initially against the title because it didn't fit with the 'nobility' (probably a poor word choice, but it's early) and uniqueness of the past titles.

But the more I think about it the more I like it.  After the events of OB and a year in-world jump, it makes sense for the conflict to have become a full scale back and forth war.

As much as I'm still a little hesitant on Eshonai flashback chapters and focusing on the Listeners in general, I think it will be fascinating to see Venli try and practice her surgebinding while under the watchful eye of Odium and the Fused.  Every radiant so far seems to focus on one surge well before the other, and I'm curious to see which it is for Venli.  Seeing the specifics of teleporting and more of Shadesmar would be really cool, but I'm leaning towards wanting to see Cohesion just to see what the heck it really is and can do.

(Plus I imagine Venli teleporting to and from Shadesmar will be a big obvious easier to detect 'hey wait should she be doing that?' moment for Odium and the Fused.)

I can see Venli's arc being ostensibly one of uniting the non-Odium Listeners, but really about peace with Dalinar.  If RoW really involves the conflict getting constantly bloody with constant casualties and battles, the Jasnah way of 'kill 'em all one of us is becoming extinct' may gain more and more popularity.  Plus hatred of the enemy in general.  (Rhythm of War and all that.)  And Venli, formally of the 'to hell with everything, humans are dumb, gimme new forms damnation the consequences,' will realize the errors of her past and be the one to forge a real unifying coalition between Roshar's various races.  (Her being the one to ultimately fight against the Rhythm of War.) 

[+Hoiditthroughthegrapevine]

13 hours ago, Calderis said:

Personally, I don't think that it being a Listener song would break with the theme at all. Even if it wasn't a physical book until this point.

I completely agree with this, I was more objecting to this book being based on a Rhythm, which is just a qualifier for speech, like how there are 3 different ways to compose a sentence in English that have vocal intonation patterns that show which type of sentence they are, Interrogative (questions??) Declarative (statements.) and Imperative (commands!).

I'm a big fan of @Jofwu's idea about "The Rhythm of War" being an ancient text from the Shadowdays that can now be translated because Dawnchant has been cracked. It could have been written by the ancient Singers, or even a scholar who was studying the conflict with the Singers. Either way a view into the mysteries that existed over 4,500 years ago during the Heraldic Epochs would be awesome, and maybe we'd get some more information on the elusive Dawnshards too (more than the Kaza interlude or that strange Poem of Ista myth with the guy carrying a dawnshard while crawling up the giant steps meant for Heralds towards the grand temple).