Is FLT (faster than light) possible in the Cosmere?

[Whynot]

So I was reading some old post's by Brandon Sanderson and he mentioned the possibility of FLT in the third of the Mistborn trilogy's as how the series will be Si-Fi and this got me thinking in the post he said "it has to do with speed bubbles but any questions on that will be RAFO"( Excuse me if it is not precise I could not find the exact quote.) so then I thought what would happen if inside a speed bubble (Cadium or Bendalloy) a coinshot repeatedly pushed would that cause the normal rules of physics to be suspended therefore causing FLT or would a normal reaction take place?

[+Invocation]

The books necessary to answer that question are not written yet. Era 3 (the ones that are around 1980's level tech and will be coming out once Wax and Wayne is done, plus some extra time) will give a lot of material for that, according to Brandon. It does have something to do with the redshift and some other oddities with speed bubbles. Once Mistborn Era 4 comes around we'll all be good and all questions will be answered, if you can wait for around 20 years to find out. 

[Weltall]

Welcome to the Shard!

Not only do the Metallic Arts have the means to enable FTL travel built into them but other Cosmere magics do as well. The final Era of Mistborn (which is also ging to be the finale for the whole shared universe) is a space opera and will feature multiple worlds and according to Brandon, really cool space battles. Roshar has magic that allows control over gravity and a form of teleportation, Autonomy's Investiture can theoretically power a solar sail and Sel has at least two magic systems featuring teleportation that could be extended to interplanetary or interstellar travel in theory, once they work out the geographic limitations.

As for your observations about speed bubbles, we've had lots of discussion on how allomancy might work to produce FTL but Brandon has been clear that he hasn't given us enough information yet to come up with the answer for ourselves. Here's him describling how the application and understanding of magic is going to grow as we move further along the timeline.

Quote

So, I tried to build the cosmere magic... for instance, how the Bands of Mourning work. We are getting away from Step 1, which is, "Metals push or pull." We can get that. Into Step 2, where we are building complex machines out of the interactions between the magic. And we will then get to Step 3, where it's like, we can explain the principles, but you need to be a computer engineer to understand exactly how the computer is working. And I wanted to be able to build to get to that point. With the philosophy of, "What is the power, what is the individual, what is the intent," and things like that, we're kind of going that direction, in a philosophical direction. What does it mean? What are the answers?
JordanCon 2018 (April 21, 2018)

In other words, for Scadrian FTL at least it's going to be more complicated than just using the powers we already know about in the ways we know they can be used.

Edited January 31, 2019 by Weltall

[.X Caliber]

What about the Oathgates on Roshar?  Wouldn't that be considered faster than light travel?  FTL travel is something that theoretically isn't possible in our physical realm.  But the cognitive realm or even the spiritual realm in the Cosmere don't really follow the same laws of physics.  

 So is FTL travel possible without using the cognitive or spiritual realm?  I don't know if we have a definitive answer for that yet.

[not an Evil Librarian]

4 hours ago, .X Caliber said:

What about the Oathgates on Roshar?  Wouldn't that be considered faster than light travel? 

 speed=distance/time, so that is X amount of miles divided by 0 seconds. division by zero is inappropriate. so the oathgates transport people at an inappropriate speed. 

Edited February 8, 2019 by not an Evil Librarian

[Weltall]

2 hours ago, not an Evil Librarian said:

 speed=distance/time, so that is X amount of miles divided by 0 seconds. division by zero is inappropriate. so the oathgates transport people at an inappropriate speed. 

Unless you want to argue that Oathgates create perfect duplicates of the people being transported and then 'delete' the originals (a la the philosophical thought experiments) there is a unit of time involved, even if it's so small that it's beyond the Rosharan's ability to measure accurately. The people using the Oathgates aren't in two places at once so there's an interval that could be measured with a sufficiently accurate instrument or set of instruments. So, no dividing by zero and no making Pattern unhappy due to people doing inappropriate things.  Brandon has said that under his current conception Oathgate travel actually obeys the speed of light limit, which means that the time delay between gates is going to be (very slightly) affected by the distance traveled; We're talking differences of small fractions of a second at most.

Whether Scadrian FTL and any other potential methods of realspace interstellar travel manage to crack the speed of light without recourse to the Spiritual Realm is something we can't say for sure, but since Brandon has called it 'actual FTL' on multiple occasions, it's likely he'll find some sufficiently plausible workaround that lets him have Physical Realm FTL without breaking causaliy into itty bitty pieces. In twenty years or so...

Edited February 8, 2019 by Weltall

[Steeldancer]

Here, I'll just post my recentish theorizing upon this very fact. Have fun. 

I'm currently waiting on Brandon's promised AMA to get the dilation and compression of space confirmed, which would validate this theory. 

Edited February 9, 2019 by Steeldancer

[Ryan Diggory]

Hoid is an example of Faster than Light travel, as he worldhops. Oathgates are also another example

[Inky]

1 hour ago, Ryan Diggory said:

Hoid is an example of Faster than Light travel, as he worldhops. Oathgates are also another example

(current) Worldhopping isn't FTL travel, it's walking through the Cognitive Realm. In Era 4, maybe, when people have the FTL spaceships, sure. But not currently.

[RShara]

18 minutes ago, Inky said:

(current) Worldhopping isn't FTL travel, it's walking through the Cognitive Realm. In Era 4, maybe, when people have the FTL spaceships, sure. But not currently.

I think that would count as FTL, at least in the uninhabited parts of the CR, where you cross light years in a few steps. You would beat a beam of light while worldhopping from Nalthis to Roshar, for example.

[CrazyRioter]

On 5/23/2019 at 0:31 PM, RShara said:

I think that would count as FTL, at least in the uninhabited parts of the CR, where you cross light years in a few steps. You would beat a beam of light while worldhopping from Nalthis to Roshar, for example.

Nah it's not FTL, it's just taking a shortcut.

[RShara]

37 minutes ago, CrazyRioter said:

Nah it's not FTL, it's just taking a shortcut.

..I guess it depends on your definition of FTL. If it beats a beam of light from Point A to Point B, I call it FTL.

[Pathfinder]

On 2/8/2019 at 6:34 PM, Weltall said:

Unless you want to argue that Oathgates create perfect duplicates of the people being transported and then 'delete' the originals (a la the philosophical thought experiments) there is a unit of time involved, even if it's so small that it's beyond the Rosharan's ability to measure accurately. The people using the Oathgates aren't in two places at once so there's an interval that could be measured with a sufficiently accurate instrument or set of instruments. So, no dividing by zero and no making Pattern unhappy due to people doing inappropriate things.  Brandon has said that under his current conception Oathgate travel actually obeys the speed of light limit, which means that the time delay between gates is going to be (very slightly) affected by the distance traveled; We're talking differences of small fractions of a second at most.

Whether Scadrian FTL and any other potential methods of realspace interstellar travel manage to crack the speed of light without recourse to the Spiritual Realm is something we can't say for sure, but since Brandon has called it 'actual FTL' on multiple occasions, it's likely he'll find some sufficiently plausible workaround that lets him have Physical Realm FTL without breaking causaliy into itty bitty pieces. In twenty years or so...

This is not canon yet because Brandon is still working out the kinks, but he wants powers like the oathgates to work using the spiritual realm which is all times and all places at once, so that would solve the whole "being in two places at once" issue you bring up. WoB below:

 

Questioner

Did humans come to Roshar through Shadesmar?

Brandon Sanderson

It is technology or magic closer to how the Oathgates work. But it was like that. It's not canon but right now that's what I have. It's not canon because there are certain things I have to work out before that can work...

By the way I'll just say to the tape recording that I haven't canonized, like for instance if they traveled to Shadesmar to get to Shinovar from Ashyn. Right now I have that not being via Shadesmar, but the mechanics of that might not work out, and I might have to default to Shadesmar. So there's certain things, you'll see, where I say, "This isn't the canon answer, it's where I have things right now."

Overlord Jebus

So Urithiru might end up being a spaceship after all.

Brandon Sanderson

It's not that. Right now I have them using something closer to Oathgating, but it opens up a huge can of worms, when I'm not requiring direct-- When I'm sending through Spiritual Realm it opens up cans of worms, and I have to just make sure the mechanics on that are tight before I do it.

 

 

 

Questioner

Uh, before you split The Rithmatist from the Cosmere, did the Shadowblazes come from the Cognitive realm?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah. Yeah, the Shadowblazes were in the Cognitive realm, they’re--you know, well, they’re more Spiritual realm. They were Spiritual realm, sorry. They were Spiritual realm entities that got pulled in, uh, to the Physical realm. And the Spiritual realm has no time, um, it exists independent of time and location, all times and all places are one, and so, uh, when something that’s from the Spiritual realm got pulled into the Physical realm, it was like, “This is so weird!” Um, and there are very few things in the Cosmere that exist only on the Spiritual realm, which was a really fun thing I could do with this book, was show that. Cause most things exist on all three realms. Um, so, yeah. So, yeah, I mean if you’ve got, if you’re a Cosmere, uh, theologian--not theologian, magic, uh, what do you call it? Uh, they call that, uh, I have a word for it in-world. But anyway, if you’re a realmatic theorist, you can kind of pick out how the Spiritual realm beings were related, originally, to the realmatic theory.

Edited June 4, 2019 by Pathfinder

[Karger]

On 2/8/2019 at 6:34 PM, Weltall said:

Unless you want to argue that Oathgates create perfect duplicates of the people being transported and then 'delete' the originals (a la the philosophical thought experiments) there is a unit of time involved, even if it's so small that it's beyond the Rosharan's ability to measure accurately. The people using the Oathgates aren't in two places at once so there's an interval that could be measured with a sufficiently accurate instrument or set of instruments. So, no dividing by zero and no making Pattern unhappy due to people doing inappropriate things.  Brandon has said that under his current conception Oathgate travel actually obeys the speed of light limit, which means that the time delay between gates is going to be (very slightly) affected by the distance traveled; We're talking differences of small fractions of a second at most.

This and the fact that Rosharan spanreads are instantaneous indicates that Rosharans can now calculate the speed of Light!

[Jondesu]

On 6/4/2019 at 11:40 AM, Karger said:

This and the fact that Rosharan spanreads are instantaneous indicates that Rosharans can now calculate the speed of Light!

Are they instantaneous, though?  We don't really know for sure.  It's likely and entirely possible there's a delay, which simply wouldn't matter to the user.  In fact, there's always a delay before the other person starts writing, though of course we can usually attribute that to them reading and maybe changing a sheet of paper.

[Karger]

26 minutes ago, Jondesu said:

Are they instantaneous, though?  We don't really know for sure.  It's likely and entirely possible there's a delay, which simply wouldn't matter to the user.  In fact, there's always a delay before the other person starts writing, though of course we can usually attribute that to them reading and maybe changing a sheet of paper.

We do know actually.  We have WoB confirmation.

[Jondesu]

Just now, Karger said:

We do know actually.  We have WoB confirmation.

Ooh, I hadn't seen one.  That would suggest they work in some form through the Spiritual Realm perhaps?  Or just that Cognitive Connection can be instantaneous.  Either way, interesting possibilities (though not necessarily tied to the speed of light or aiding in finding it).

[Steel Inquisitive]

38 minutes ago, Karger said:

We do know actually.  We have WoB confirmation.

Could you post the wob?

[Karger]

1 hour ago, Steel Inquisitive said:

Could you post the wob?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Rosharans already have an ansible. (reported by Kurkistan)

Spanreeds are, basically, evidence that FTL is possible in the Cosmere. It's not the only example too. (reported by Blightsong)

Footnote: Heavily paraphrased, aggregated from multiple comments.