IGetLIFTed

hemalurgy
Can Hemalurgy be Used in Other Worlds and on Anyone?

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Could someone theoretically use Hemalurgy on a Mistborn, Knights Radiant, a Feruchemist, Awakener, etc.? They could become like a god. What about using Hemalurgy on a Shard?

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Oops posted this in the wrong place oh well

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Long story short, yes. In practice it's a little more complicated than that. Spiking something to/away from a shard would be difficult as they tend to lack a body to spike

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The Coppermind is a great resource for questions like this.  It's basically the Cosmere Wikipedia.  Beware of spoilers, though.  

Hemalurgy can indeed be used on anybody, on any planet.  You can even use it in the Cognitive Realm.  However, Hemalurgy is unpleasant.  It has pretty terrible ramifications for both donor and recipient (although less bad for the recipient).  For example, good luck finding a spren to bond if your Spiritweb gets super warped.  

As @Shqueeves said, it's almost certainly impossible to spike a Shard, as they have no body (and consist of an unimaginable amount of Investiture).  

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If you accidentally make a duplicate post, just hit the "Report post" button to let a mod know and they can delete it.  

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Questioner

Hemalurgy is mentioned as something that has "broad implications" but that's of Ruin, right? Or now it is of Harmony.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, but don't take the "of Ruin" and "of Preservation" too strongly, but yes.

Questioner

But, I mean, somebody couldn't just walk along with a metal spike on, say, Nalthis. Stab someone and have the power, right?

Brandon Sanderson

If they knew whereto stab them, yes they could.

Questioner

Anywhere in the cosmere?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Questioner

You can stab someone and get their power?

Brandon Sanderson

Hemalurgy has been built in such a way that it rips off pieces of the soul. If you can rip off the right piece of the soul and attach it to somebody else, it will change your Identity and rewrite-- It can rewrite anything attached to your soul. Identity, Connection, it can rewrite Investiture, all of this stuff it can potentially do.

 

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The functions of Hemalurgy are Cosmere-wide, and unlike many other forms of investiture do not require specific Connections to a given planet and/or shard.  It can be used to steal just about anything that is part of the Victim's Spiritweb, including things like the Nahel Bond of a Radiant, a Returned's Divine Breath (but not normal breaths), an Elantrian's upgrade, etc.  There is even a WOB implying that it could be used directly on a Spren, though you'd have to spike their 'real' body in the Cognitive Realm.  The biggest limitation is that Intent is Key to the process, you have to know the correct bind Points and actually Intend to create a Spike, you cannot accidentally do it while just trying to stab somebody.   

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Yeah, Khriss even mentions in Arcanum Unbounded that hemalurgy has the broadest implications because of its ability to steal things from anywhere and 'create false Connections that no Shard designed or intended'. Actually, almost all Cosmere magic can be used on different worlds, as long as you satisfy whatever that system's requirements are. The Metallic Arts are the generally the easiest to use offworld since all you need is the right metal and it doesn't have to be metal from Scadrial. Other magics might require you to bring along the necessary materials (like needing Invested sand from Taldain to do Sand Mastery) or find an appropriate hack that lets you use elements of one magic to power another, but most magic is effectively universal as long as you know what you're doing. The only exception we know of is Selish magic, which is region-locked and can't be used too far from the location on the planet where the magic is practiced and can't be used offworld at all, currently.

17 minutes ago, Shqueeves said:

Long story short, yes. In practice it's a little more complicated than that. Spiking something to/away from a shard would be difficult as they tend to lack a body to spike

Pretty much impossible really. Their actual body sublimates when they Ascend and the representations of them that we see in the Physical and Cognitive Realms are just projections. Plus, a spike can only hold so much Investiture and the amount you'd get from even a tiny fraction of a Shard's power would break that limit and probably do weird things.

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2 hours ago, IGetLIFTed said:

Could someone theoretically use Hemalurgy on a Mistborn, Knights Radiant, a Feruchemist, Awakener, etc.? They could become like a god. What about using Hemalurgy on a Shard?

Point 1; Yes, but there would be side effects, i.e. the spren could choose to sever your bond since you just killed their Knight.

Point 2; Nope. It would be like using a battery to drain a power plant. Shards are on the power scale of moving celestial bodies, and no spike in the world could harm them. Even nightblood would do no more than annoy a shard, and he is the most invested non shard entity by several orders of magnitude.

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3 hours ago, Scion of the Mists said:

The Coppermind is a great resource for questions like this.  It's basically the Cosmere Wikipedia.  Beware of spoilers, though.  

Hemalurgy can indeed be used on anybody, on any planet.  You can even use it in the Cognitive Realm.  However, Hemalurgy is unpleasant.  It has pretty terrible ramifications for both donor and recipient (although less bad for the recipient).  For example, good luck finding a spren to bond if your Spiritweb gets super warped.  

As @Shqueeves said, it's almost certainly impossible to spike a Shard, as they have no body (and consist of an unimaginable amount of Investiture).  

I second this. The Coppermind is amazing.

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2 hours ago, John203 said:

Point 2; Nope. It would be like using a battery to drain a power plant. Shards are on the power scale of moving celestial bodies, and no spike in the world could harm them. Even nightblood would do no more than annoy a shard, and he is the most invested non shard entity by several orders of magnitude.

Not quite, Nightblood is one of the most heavily Invested things that isn't a Shard but there are some things that are more Invested, including at least some Perpendicularities. That quibble aside, you're right.

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See, I debated what word to use and ended up with entity, because it implies decision-making capabilities; you could debate all the live long day whether the Sarlacc was a "being," but you wouldn't use it to describe Kholinar palace (the perpendicularity in this analogy.) Now that I write this out, it occurs to me, via Shadesmar, that the palace, like the Wind's Pleasure, might posess such capabilities. Either way, your point is conceded.

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Big Yep. Hemalurgy is weird that way like afaik Sanderson made this specifically for cosmere.

6 hours ago, Weltall said:

Not quite, Nightblood is one of the most heavily Invested things that isn't a Shard but there are some things that are more Invested, including at least some Perpendicularities. That quibble aside, you're right.

Didn't know Perpendicularities are insanely invested. I just thought they were like bridges that you can cross the 3 realms with so they have some bit of the shards power. 

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7 hours ago, goody153 said:
14 hours ago, Weltall said:

Not quite, Nightblood is one of the most heavily Invested things that isn't a Shard but there are some things that are more Invested, including at least some Perpendicularities. That quibble aside, you're right.

Didn't know Perpendicularities are insanely invested. I just thought they were like bridges that you can cross the 3 realms with so they have some bit of the shards power. 

Perpendicularities function as a bridge precisely because they're Invested.  A huge concentration of Investiture warps the Realms (like gravity does to space-time) and pierces between them.  

More info: https://coppermind.net/wiki/Perpendicularity

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8 hours ago, goody153 said:

Didn't know Perpendicularities are insanely invested. I just thought they were like bridges that you can cross the 3 realms with so they have some bit of the shards power. 

They act like a realmic Gravity Well that crushes the three Realms together, facilitating the travel.  Though there are smaller, non-shardic versions: Elsecallers are creating tiny ones, and there are theories that the Shades on Threnody are something similar.  And then there's the Oathgates, that are weird in a few ways.

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