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Republic of Alleycity


Lord Meeker

Head of Defense  

11 members have voted

  1. 1. Should a Head of Defense to manage the Precursors be elected?

    • Yes
      10
    • No
      1

This poll is closed to new votes


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1 minute ago, Vargo Seldon said:

Keleth nodded.  Good point.  It seemed this one didn't really like him.  His social skills weren't the best.  "Yes, signing under duress is a problem," he conceded, "They can specify 'with permission' if you want them to, and if it really needs to be specified. As for the hemalurgic permission form, there can be a trustworthy government witness, but the witness could be biased or also forced to sign.  Another solution is that they have to be signed by a rep within the government building.  There are also numerous ways to prevent it using investiture."

"But, you forget, earlier you mentioned that spike-ins required no permission. We all know that with enough Hemalurgic spikes a person becomes even more susceptible to control via Allomancy. Even without that, there still is risk of a Soother or Rioter tampering with their emotions, changing what the person thinks that want. Do you propose adding requirement that there be a Smoker around?" Pry said, tucking a loose strand of hair behind her ear. "In addition, we can't for a moment pretend that this governing system will be free of corruption." She paused for a moment to let that sink in. "No government witness can ever be certified 'trustworthy' and the same goes with reps. 

"You know my opinion on Hemalurgy in general, but please understand, this cynicalness isn't a product of that. It's a product of trying to create a system that can't be taken advantage of easily.

"I believe that if we wanted to be certain on all accounts we would need their signature, the signature of someone close to them, the signature of the Hemalurgist, and the signature of two not involved person as a witness that all of these signatures came of their own accord, one in the room, one watching from outside. And, if we wanted to be even more secure, it all would happen in an aluminum lined room under camera surveillance. Even all of this wouldn't be fool proof though. Someone still will find a loophole, a way to get around it all, and people will wind up in bad situations because of this. But then again, nothing is perfect.

"Now, was there something else you wanted to say?" Pry asked.

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6 hours ago, Silva said:

"Now, was there something else you wanted to say?" Pry asked.

“Yes,” Lusk interrupted. Nothing is perfect. If you really wanted to make this foolproof, we’d waste so much of our economy on each spiking, and even then it would be taken advantage of. You can’t stop these things. We’ll just have to see what loopholes people take, and close them off when it happens, instead of trying to think of every contingency.”

Lusk sat down.

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Wow. It's been awhile since I read through this. Huh.

But I have one question: DA wasn't ever put as an official Great Guild (though they could pretty easily pull it off, I think), and they have Sudiov limiting their powers outside of the alleys. So, uh, how does this work?

 

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2 minutes ago, Ark1002 said:

Wow. It's been awhile since I read through this. Huh.

But I have one question: DA wasn't ever put as an official Great Guild (though they could pretty easily pull it off, I think), and they have Sudiov limiting their powers outside of the alleys. So, uh, how does this work?

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How does what work? Them being there? They just present counterpoints and keep things interesting, they're not actually voting on anything.

 

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7 minutes ago, Ark1002 said:

No, the Denizens having a nearly invincible cage, and seemingly having powers to back that up.

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Having anti-Investiture cages is basically a requirement unless everyone wants a repeat of the seven days war but on a global scale, but the Denizens present are just a mix of PCs and standard guild NPCs. I'm not objecting to their death but 1 vs. 10 is bad enough odds that I'd want a little more than 'He killed them then moved on.' and PCs are present so they can't be godmodded in that way.

 

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1 hour ago, I think I am here. said:

“Yes,” Lusk interrupted. Nothing is perfect. If you really wanted to make this foolproof, we’d waste so much of our economy on each spiking, and even then it would be taken advantage of. You can’t stop these things. We’ll just have to see what loopholes people take, and close them off when it happens, instead of trying to think of every contingency.”

"You do realize what you're saying. We should create a system in which we know there are loopholes, but not close them until they're used," Pry gave him a flat look. "If we can pinpoint what they are, there is no reason to wait until it is abused. Wasting time thinking through every possibility is wasteful, I agree, but to not take any into consideration is..." Idiocy. She wasn't about to say that aloud though. "...unfair to the average resident of the city. We're already risking them by legalizing Hemalurgy; the least we can do is think about their interests."

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The few remaining denizens rolled their eyes as the discussion continued. It wasn't likely to end in anything productive, or change the way they went about their business.
The lawyers who were still present shot the other denizens stern looks as this occurred, but didn't exactly seem to disagree.

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1 hour ago, Sorana said:

A young messenger hastened into the room and looked for Wes. When he saw him, he handed him a small note and a thin package containing a spanreed. Then he left without waiting for an answer.

@I think I am here.

Wes read the note with wide eyes. He carefully unpacked the spanreed and wrote the response.

Sure! I mean, I didn’t know he knew me, but I would be happy to, sir.

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1 hour ago, I think I am here. said:

Sure! I mean, I didn’t know he knew me, but I would be happy to, sir.

After a while a reply came.

Let's meet at the safe house close to where we had the training simulations? If you can think of others who might be usefull feel free to bring them along.

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14 minutes ago, Sorana said:

Let's meet at the safe house close to where we had the training simulations? If you can think of others who might be usefull feel free to bring them along.

Ok, Wes wrote and packed up the spanreed, wrapping his cloak around him again and jogging to the place the messenger had specified.

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Keleth took every arguement in stride, and when an opening presented itself, he lept for it.  "Yes, Hemalurgy is a dangerous art, but also beneficial.  We can't wait for people to be taken advantage of, it's probably happening already.  We need to act.  Now.  With this in mind, I will present to you an edited version of Vargo's Laws."  He drew another scroll from his robes, scrawled a few hasty notes, and began reading:

"Starts with traditional crimes:

  • Thievery of any sort is against the law, ownership being defined in a writen form (receipts, contracts, etc.), or if the owner produced the property.
  • Murder or assault of any sort is against the law, assault being determined by causing enough damage to cause pain.
  • Vandalism is also against the law.  Vandalism being determined by causing enough damage to property to limit the property's usefulness.

Monetary laws:

  • Every citizen of Alleycity will be taxed 5% of all income.
  • All transactions will have a 2% tax. 

With regard to Investiture:

  • No being shall take undue advantage of those with less investiture (such as coercion, violence etc.).

With regard to Hemalurgy:*

  • Spike-outs may happen unrestricted to the terminally sick and the elderly, given that they are close enough to death to be bedridden.  
  • Spike-outs may also happen to those signing a form produced by the government.
  • Form:
Spoiler

I, (sign name)  hereby consign myself to any and all hemalurgic expirements, with no regard to citizenship, privilege, or laws protecting me.  I give any member of the Dark Alley permission to take both my investiture and my life.  I am certified not insane by the highest institute of the land.  A specialist,  (sign specialist name)  has confirmed that I am completely mentally stable.  I am not signing this under duress or coercion, and my witnesses are neither biased or influenced in an untoward way.  I am signing this in the government building itself, and three guild representatives, all from different guilds, will confirm it.

 (Sign name here)             (Sign witness's name here)         (Sign DA denizen name here)            (Sign guild rep #2 name here) 

 (Print name here)             (Sign witness's name here)         (Sign guild rep #1 name here)           (Sign guild rep #2 name here) 

  • Spike-ins must be accompanied by a copper spike to keep mental stability.
  • Spike-ins may happen to anyone, as long as they are in accordance with hemalurgy laws.
  • Spike-ins may not result in death.

*Footnote:  It has come to my attention that the DA, and only the DA is capable of performing hemalurgic expirements professionally, and hemalurgy will therefore be restricted to their use only.

Foreign Policy:

  • All foreigners to Alleycity are to be subjected to the same laws as citizens (Citizenship to be defined as anyone born in Alleycity, or those applying for citizenship through the proper channels).
  • In disputes between foreigners and Alleycitizens, the law will regard either equally.
  • Any foreigners are allowed in, as long as they are in accordance with the law.
  • Foreign powers will be dealt with by the discretion of the government."

Keleth rolled up the scroll, set it down, and waited for the fire...

@Silva

@anyone else

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8 minutes ago, Vargo Seldon said:

Footnote:  It has come to my attention that the DA, and only the DA is capable of performing hemalurgic expirements professionally, and hemalurgy will therefore be restricted to their use only.

Lusk raised his hand. “Objection, the Ghostbloods also practise Hemalurgy professionally.”

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Pry copied down everything Keleth said onto the notepad she had with her and began to look over it and make notes every few lines. 

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I don't have the time to write her a rebuttal to anything right now, but don't worry - there likely will be some fire when I get around to it. Especially on foreign policy.

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28 minutes ago, I think I am here. said:

Lusk raised his hand. “Objection, the Ghostbloods also practise Hemalurgy professionally.”

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I do have an objection to this, how exactly can a guild that has been around for less than a century be considered to practice hemalurgy professionally (by that I mean creating new creatures or discovering bindpoints) when TLR tried for 1000 years and didn't discover anything without the assistance of shardic power?

 

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Nevermind. Didn't take nearly as long as anticipated.

Folding up the paper carefully, she got up and handed it to the representative who seemed so eager to get his laws passed.

"Enjoy," she said softly before returning quickly to her spot.

Spoiler

Notes are italicized.

 

Traditional crimes:

Thievery of any sort is against the law, ownership being defined in a written form (receipts, contracts, etc.), or if the owner produced the property.

What about the homeless?

Murder or assault of any sort is against the law, assault being determined by causing enough damage to cause pain.

Including self-defense and bystander to situation clauses might be a good idea.

Vandalism is also against the law.  Vandalism being determined by causing enough damage to property to limit the property's usefulness.

Right. So I can spraypaint my name on a wall and no one will have any issues with it? That doesn’t limit the property’s usefulness, but by most people’s definitions that is vandalism.

 

Monetary laws:

Every citizen of Alleycity will be taxed 5% of all income.

What happens in cases of thievery? Do they pay 5% of the stolen income if caught? It’s not specified that it most come from legal means.

All transactions will have a 2% tax.

And is there a punishment for those who do not follow it?

With regard to Investiture:

No being shall take undue advantage of those with less investiture (such as coercion, violence etc.).

Good concept...I’m sure the vagueness of how this is to be enforced was noticed by more than just me.

 

With regard to Hemalurgy:*

Spike-outs may happen unrestricted to the terminally sick and the elderly, given that they are close enough to death to be bedridden.  

Is this with or without their prior consent? Maybe set up a system sort of like organ donor cards...

Spike-outs may also happen to those signing a form produced by the government

Form

Spoiler

I, (sign name)  hereby consign myself to any and all hemalurgic experiments, with no regard to citizenship, privilege, or laws protecting me.  I give any member of the Dark Alley permission to take both my investiture and my life. I am certified not insane by the highest institute of the land.  A specialist,  (sign specialist name)  has confirmed that I am completely mentally stable.  I am not signing this under duress or coercion, and my witnesses are neither biased or influenced in an untoward way.  I am signing this in the government building itself, and three guild representatives, all from different guilds, will confirm it.

(Sign name here)             (Sign witness's name here)         (Sign DA denizen name here)            (Sign guild rep #2 name here)

(Print name here)             (Sign witness's name here)         (Sign guild rep #1 name here)           (Sign guild rep #2 name here)

Spike-ins may happen to anyone, as long as they are in accordance with hemalurgy laws.

Spike-ins may not result in death.

*Footnote:  It has come to my attention that the DA, and only the DA is capable of performing hemalurgic experiments professionally, and hemalurgy will therefore be restricted to their use only.

 

Foreign Policy: What might citizenship even affect now that the law regards both equally?

All foreigners to Alleycity are to be subjected to the same laws as citizens (Citizenship to be defined as anyone born in Alleycity, or those applying for citizenship through the proper channels).

Are people born in the Alleyways considered citizens?

In disputes between foreigners and Alleycitizens, the law will regard either equally.

Any foreigners are allowed in, as long as they are in accordance with the law.

Foreign powers will be dealt with by the discretion of the government.

What is counted as a foreign power? A group with territory outside of the city? If so, that would actually include many guilds forming the government of this city.

@Vargo Seldon

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50 minutes ago, MacThorstenson said:

I do have an objection to this, how exactly can a guild that has been around for less than a century be considered to practice hemalurgy professionally (by that I mean creating new creatures or discovering bindpoints) when TLR tried for 1000 years and didn't discover anything without the assistance of shardic power?

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Technically practicing Hemalurgy professionally just means you get payed to do so. They could just be performing regular Hemalurgy but getting payed to do so.

But yeah this has been a bit of a trend, people handwaving away the amount of time and resources that scientific endeavours require. Making huge leaps in scientific discoveries don't just happen overnight. This is by and large the in-world reason that the DA is so powerful compared to other guilds, they have the advantage of having been around a lot longer to do all this stuff.

 

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4 hours ago, Voidus said:

Technically practicing Hemalurgy professionally just means you get payed to do so. They could just be performing regular Hemalurgy but getting payed to do so.

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Well we never really specified what they're doing. But in my headcanon it is along this line. Practice it, some basic research, but no worlchanging discoveries.

 

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Yup. And you can say whatever Abominations we made kind of took inspiration from the DA in that regard.

Lusk lowered his hand. “Anyway, it seems this discussion has shifted to laws. There is a problem,”

“The law which you said no being should take undue advantage of one with less Investiture... what does that mean? What is less and more? Is a Coinshot and Augur equal because they’re both Mistings. Or is it based on use? Use of what? Combat or otherwise?

“And what does ‘take advantage’ mean? Are you saying Emotional Allomancers can’t use their abilities. What about Connector and Spinner Ferrings?”

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56 minutes ago, Ark1002 said:
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Plus, anyone who was ever in the DA could tell us secrets.

 

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Anyone who was in the DA and no longer is is not in a position to tell anyone anything. And even if they were they could only replicate things the DA had already done.

 

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