Types of Magic NOT in the Cosmere

[ZenBossanova]

The Cosmere has an incredible variety of magics and magic systems. Even individual Shards may have a great variety. But what kinds of magic are NOT in the Cosmere? 
Of course, we haven't seen all the Shards, and even the ones we have seen, we haven't see all they can do. What am I missing here?

 

Not in the Cosmere

• Elemental Magic (eg. The Last Airbender)
  • Ice or Fire magic
• Theurgy/Summoning angels, demons, spirits
• Enchanting object 
• Alchemy
• Astrology
• Conjuring
• Invisibility
• Speaking with the dead*
• Shapeshifting (should hemalurgy count?)
• Possession
• Remote Sensing
• spells
• Human hybrid
  • mermaids, centaurs, minotaurs, snake-people, etc
  • vampires, giants, werewolves,
• magic wands, rings, amulets, etc
• Runes
• Augury (interpreting omens, signs)
• Numeralogy/Arithmancy (should the shards affiliation with numbers count here?)
• Dowsing
• Exorcism
• Ley Lines
• Voodoo
• sex magic (just for completeness sake)
• Shamanistic/Druidic
  • Nature magic
  • talking with or gaining power from animals
• X-ray vision

Magics in the Cosmere 

• Divination 
• Illusion
• Necromancy
• Transfiguration
• Potions
• Healing
• Animation
• Energy (manipulating, absorbing, nullifying, etc)
• Flight
• Immortality
• Mind reading? 
• Mind Control
• Auras 
• Understand/translate languages
• magic creatures
• Crystals (Aethers)
• human sacrifice 
• teleportation

 

[ND103]

Going through the list of the ones not in the Cosmere, I disagree on the following -

 

Invisibility - could be possible with light weaving or similar. 

Runes -forgery is akin to Runes. As is elantrian magic. 

Possession - the Fused, though they leave the original host dead so... I would count it but I can see why someone might not. 

Shapeshifting- dragons can take on human form so that's there. 

Spells - again elantrian magic is sort of a construction of spells via Runes except you don't say them out loud. 

Sex magic - I have no reason to justify this... I just really want to read a BS take on it. 

Enchanting objects - warbreaker magic

Conjuring - by a particular definition of it spren are kinda that especially for singers/listeners. 

Remote sensing - fabrials like the ones for communication work on similar principles so I would count it but I can see why not. 

 

Just my thoughts. 

[Weltall]

1 hour ago, ZenBossanova said:

Elemental Magic (eg. The Last Airbender)

Brandon has said that he's avoiding these because he thinks they're so used that it's hard to find a fresh take on them, though it sort of comes up with Surgebinding and he's mentioned several other authors' takes on it that he likes. Still, probably not going to see any straight elemental magic systems in the Cosmere, just cases like Windrunning where the specific powers tangentially happen to involve the classic elements.

Quote

Enchanting object

Do fabrials count? Because you could argue that the 'half-shard' is basically an enchanted shield and other applications are probably possible with the right gemstone and spren combination.

Aaand I just realized quoting everything is going to get tedious so I'll just skip it for the rest.

- Alchemy: Well, there's Forton's potions which could (maybe) function like the alchemist's elixir of life insofar as it could give effects similar to most forms of Cosmere healing and Forgery already has a means of turning lead into gold (albeit it's really hard to find a case where that's plausible) while Soulcasting can transmute materials as well. But yeah, given that alchemy is basically proto-chemistry and Brandon's all about the application of the scientific method to his magics, we're unlikely to see any 'magical alchemy' like Neal Stephenson's Baroque Cycle or Full Metal Alchemist in the Cosmere.

- Astrology/Augury are just ways of predicting the future, which there's a developed mechanic for. You could pretty much count any application of Fortune. Something more on the lines of 'prediction through omens' might work on a 'minor' shardworld where the magic is more a part of the environment and people mostly interact with it indirectly.

- Shapeshifting is... pretty much what the kandra do, just with a Sandersonian take on it by requiring bones and a lot of practice if you want to become something other than a copy of whatever you just ate. And as already mentioned, we know dragons can do this.

- Hybrids: Well, the 'hemalurgic chimaeras' started out as humans that got something spiked into them. You could probably do more with enough knowledge of hemalurgy and you'd be a horrible horrible person for trying. Forget mad scientists, the true horror is mad hemalurgists.

- Magic rings and such: Setting aside fabrials again, there are some applications of AonDor that could probably work similarly, with the appropriate Aon chains and modifiers carved into them.

- Sex magic: Brandon being Brandon, I'm guessing we're never going to see anything like this.

- Exorcism: Does throwing silver dust at Shades not count?

- Ley Lines: Uhhhh, I guess you could sort of count the giant power modifier that is the city of Elantris, though it only works for one subset of Selish magic.

[Onslaught]

I don't really know enough about Nightblood, but isn't it an object with a high level of investiture? Could that be considered as enchanting?

Whilst not outright possession, ruin influenced the citizen to a fanatical state of being.

[Mah'alleinir]

I think that certain magic from aether of night may allow for human hybrids. Also the where some weird creatures there but I don't remember them well enoguh
Also I think that metalminds may count as magic amulets.

[Gasper]

A-Bronze is a type of remote sensing and could be used for dousing. Future sight is used on First of the Sun by some of the Aviars. Human hybrids are seen in Shadows of Sense when Bleeder makes animal/human hemalurgic creations with a spike in the head. And Spook talking with Kelsier is talking with the mostly dead temporarily lacking a physical body. Soulstamping is similar to alchemy. Renarian's future sight could be a type of Augury. And the Diagram is an advanced form of numerology. I would argue that hemalurgy could be use for Voodoo doll like scenarios like what we see with Wax and Bleeder talking through the spikes. Voodoo Zombies could be Lifeless or a drab. Nightblood is classed as an artifact of doom courtesy of TV Tropes.

[Weltall]

1 hour ago, Mah'alleinir said:

I think that certain magic from aether of night may allow for human hybrids. Also the where some weird creatures there but I don't remember them well enoguh

Ahhhhh, we're not supposed to talk about Aether of Night outside its dedicated board. Also, until Brandon rewrites it none of the magic is strictly canonical.

[Fully_Invested]

There is (effectively) a human-dog hybrid, found in Shadows of Self: https://coppermind.net/wiki/Hemalurgic_chimera. While I don't recall there being the presence of actual dog, the human is deformed enough to be very dog-like (similar to a werewolf)

[+Oltux72]

On 1/27/2019 at 7:53 AM, ZenBossanova said:

• Conjuring

For all practical purposes, how is Soulcasting different?

On 1/27/2019 at 7:53 AM, ZenBossanova said:

• Shapeshifting (should hemalurgy count?)

Kandra, Dragons, the Returned, Listener forms, Dakhor, Aimians,  Surge of Progression, ...
It is really common actually, albeit in limited form.

On 1/27/2019 at 7:53 AM, ZenBossanova said:

• Possession

The Thrill, Yelig-Nar, Forms of Power, Controlling constructs with emotional allomancy,  death rattles,  Harmony taking over Kandra, ...

On 1/27/2019 at 7:53 AM, ZenBossanova said:

• Remote Sensing

What is Hoid doing with Fortune?
Seons do it in a sense.
Can Aon Dor do it?
Observation from the cognitive realm?

On 1/27/2019 at 7:53 AM, ZenBossanova said:

• Human hybrid
  • mermaids, centaurs, minotaurs, snake-people, etc
  • vampires, giants, werewolves,

Crossings with Listeners

On 1/27/2019 at 7:53 AM, ZenBossanova said:

• Runes

Aon Dor?

On 1/27/2019 at 7:53 AM, ZenBossanova said:

• sex magic (just for completeness sake)

Unmade and Revels?

On 1/27/2019 at 7:53 AM, ZenBossanova said:

• Shamanistic/Druidic
  • Nature magic
  • talking with or gaining power from animals

That is exactly what Sixth of the Dusk did. Telepathically even.

 

[Kobold King]

On 1/26/2019 at 9:44 PM, ND103 said:

Sex magic - I have no reason to justify this... I just really want to read a BS take on it. 

 

Given the things he specifically excludes from his novels, this would be the first Cosmere magic system that is used exclusively off-screen and is only mentioned in passing.

[Weltall]

53 minutes ago, Kobold King said:

Given the things he specifically excludes from his novels, this would be the first Cosmere magic system that is used exclusively off-screen and is only mentioned in passing.

I'm now imagining how Brandon could make it work within the kind of magic he writes and his own tendency to avoid gratuitous sex. How about kissing then? Brandon's totally okay with writing that, magic in a kiss is an old concept and I'm sure there could be some sort of Intent-based way to determine what does and does not count as a 'first kiss' for purposes of the magic which makes it more powerful than any subsequent use. Maybe different kinds of kisses cause the magic to do different things depending on cultural constructs, like kissing someone's hand transfers Investiture from you to them to give an effect like tapping a metalmind, kissing on the forehead could be how healing is triggered... there's a whole potential magic system just waiting to be written here. xD

[ZenBossanova]

On 1/27/2019 at 0:44 AM, ND103 said:

Invisibility - could be possible with light weaving or similar. 

Runes -forgery is akin to Runes. As is elantrian magic. 

Possession - the Fused, though they leave the original host dead so... I would count it but I can see why someone might not. 

Shapeshifting- dragons can take on human form so that's there. 

Enchanting objects - warbreaker magic

Invisibility is plausible, but I am not convinced on that one. That could easily be the one thing it can't do. 

 

On 1/27/2019 at 1:32 AM, Weltall said:

- Alchemy: ....

- Astrology/Augury are just ways of predicting the future, which there's a developed mechanic for. You could pretty much count any application of Fortune. Something more on the lines of 'prediction through omens' might work on a 'minor' shardworld where the magic is more a part of the environment and people mostly interact with it indirectly.

...

- Ley Lines: Uhhhh, I guess you could sort of count the giant power modifier that is the city of Elantris, though it only works for one subset of Selish magic.

We do have potions, and transmution, but no alchemy yet. 
Again, we have futuresight and fortune, but no reading signs

Ley lines - that is a good call. I wondered about this one, but the more I think about it, you are right. 

On 1/28/2019 at 9:21 AM, Gasper said:

A-Bronze is a type of remote sensing and could be used for dousing.... Human hybrids are seen in Shadows of Sense when Bleeder makes animal/human hemalurgic creations with a spike in the head. And Spook talking with Kelsier is talking with the mostly dead temporarily lacking a physical body.

I was going to argue the remote sensing, but you are right here. 
Should we let talking to Kelsier count? I am of two minds on this one. Maybe it should count. 

 

On 1/29/2019 at 2:31 PM, Fully_Invested said:

There is (effectively) a human-dog hybrid, found in Shadows of Self: https://coppermind.net/wiki/Hemalurgic_chimera. While I don't recall there being the presence of actual dog, the human is deformed enough to be very dog-like (similar to a werewolf)

Can we get any benign non-hemalurgic ones? But this at least counts for "werewolves".

 

On 1/29/2019 at 5:30 PM, Oltux72 said:

Quote

• Shamanistic/Druidic
  • Nature magic
  • talking with or gaining power from animals

That is exactly what Sixth of the Dusk did. Telepathically even.

Good call! 

 

On 1/29/2019 at 5:30 PM, Oltux72 said:

Quote

• sex magic (just for completeness sake)

Unmade and Revels?

 They said it couldn't be done... good call. Yes, orgy at the revel, instigated by the Unmade certainly counts. It is sex and it is magic... and disgusting and horrifying. I like to imagine Dalinar helping to pull this Unmade away from Odium and having Sebrial bond him. "You call that indulgence? I call it weak. Now this is what indulgence is...."  That would take some heavy work from our Bondsmith and the Unmade good at corrupting/changing things. Probably never happen... but I think it should.

Edited January 31, 2019 by ZenBossanova

[ZenBossanova]

On 1/26/2019 at 11:53 PM, ZenBossanova said:

Not in the Cosmere

• Elemental Magic (eg. The Last Airbender)
  • Ice or Fire magic -- there were Stormform Parshendi commanding lightening. Should that count? 
• Theurgy/Summoning angels, demons, spirits
• Enchanting object 
• Alchemy
• Astrology
• Conjuring
• Invisibility
• Speaking with the dead*
• Shapeshifting (should hemalurgy count?)
• Possession
• Remote Sensing
• spells
• Human hybrid
  • mermaids, centaurs, minotaurs, snake-people, etc
  • vampires, 
  • ghosts - shades
  • elves, dwarves, fantasy races  - plenty of new  races
  • giants,   Koloss
  • werewolves,   Hemalurgy
• magic wands, rings, amulets, etc
• Runes
• Augury (interpreting omens, signs)
• Numeralogy/Arithmancy (should the shards affiliation with numbers count here?)
• Dowsing
• Exorcism
• Ley Lines
• Voodoo - should we call this one done, or press for more? 
• sex magic (just for completeness sake)
• Shamanistic/Druidic
  • Nature magic
  • talking with or gaining power from animals
• X-ray vision.
•  

There isn't much left here. And we have seen magic from about half the shards, there is plenty of room for the rest of it. 

[+Oltux72]

3 hours ago, ZenBossanova said:

Ley lines - that is a good call. I wondered about this one, but the more I think about it, you are right. 

A shard pool isn't a line. That is the only difference I can see.

3 hours ago, ZenBossanova said:

I was going to argue the remote sensing, but you are right here.

Warning fabrials also.

And regarding voodoo, what exactly happens if you awaken a spanreed?

 

[Inky]

7 hours ago, ZenBossanova said:

Elemental Magic (eg. The Last Airbender)

• Ice or Fire magic -- there were Stormform Parshendi commanding lightening. Should that count? 

 

Brandon has said he won't be doing elemental magic, and stormform is more lightning manipulation alone so I wouldn't count it

[+Oltux72]

8 hours ago, ZenBossanova said:

Invisibility is plausible, but I am not convinced on that one. That could easily be the one thing it can't do. 

Smokeform for hiding and slipping 'tween men.
A form of power—like Surges of spren
Do we dare to wear this form again? It spies.

 

There wqe have another candidate for invisibility.

 

[ZenBossanova]

9 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Smokeform for hiding and slipping 'tween men.
A form of power—like Surges of spren
Do we dare to wear this form again? It spies.

 

There wqe have another candidate for invisibility.

 

I thought about that one. It is at least close in spirit. 

[Quantus]

The main one Im hoping to see is a true Conjuring, something that lets you create Matter whole from Investiture.  What Id consider the closest things are Forgery and Soulcasting, and both are about modifying something that already exists in the Physical Realm, or maybe Shardblades where there's an existing Cognitive Entity that gets pulled into the Physical Realm via the Bond.  But we know Wholly Original Creation has to be possible (technically) because it was used for Scadrial, so the real question is whether it's possible for Non-Shardic entities. Im hoping that it will prove possible in the sane way creating a Perpendicularity doesnt apparently require massive amounts of Shardic power, and can be done on a smaller scale (ie Elsecallers). 

[+Oltux72]

7 minutes ago, Quantus said:

The main one Im hoping to see is a true Conjuring, something that lets you create Matter whole from Investiture.  What Id consider the closest things are Forgery and Soulcasting, and both are about modifying something that already exists in the Physical Realm, or maybe Shardblades where there's an existing Cognitive Entity that gets pulled into the Physical Realm via the Bond.

We are seeing it fairly consistently. The additional matter used in restoring lost tissue or create tissue by the surge of regrowth or feruchemically healing has to come from somewhere.

[Quantus]

2 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

We are seeing it fairly consistently. The additional matter used in restoring lost tissue or create tissue by the surge of regrowth or feruchemically healing has to come from somewhere.

That's not what I mean. Im not talking just about instances where Conversation of Mass is being violated (which absolutely happens in most magic systems).  Im talking about creating an entirely original entity/object/person in the Physical Realm, with all the various bits (the Spiritweb, the Cognitive Bead, etc) being new and original.  Soulcasting and forgery both can take something that exists and reconfigure it to something else, and various Healing processes can restore physical damage based on the existing Spiritual template, but the only example of truly New Things being created that I can think of are when the Shards (or Adonalsium) made planets.  Though admittedly there's enough Diversity on Roshar that I wonder what exactly Cultivation has been up to historically. 

[Mah'alleinir]

On 28/1/2019 at 2:18 PM, Weltall said:

Ahhhhh, we're not supposed to talk about Aether of Night outside its dedicated board. Also, until Brandon rewrites it none of the magic is strictly canonical.

My bad, sorry. Should I delete it though? It's not like I give actually anything away. And I hope the thing I'm talking about get's cannonized in some way.

[Kramerfarve]

12 hours ago, ZenBossanova said:

. I like to imagine Dalinar helping to pull this Unmade away from Odium and having Sebrial bond him.

Better yet viagra fabrials via unmade

 

Edit: also Augury can be found in warbreaker through paintings in Court of Gods 

Edited January 31, 2019 by Kramerfarve

[Weltall]

2 hours ago, Mah'alleinir said:

My bad, sorry. Should I delete it though? It's not like I give actually anything away. And I hope the thing I'm talking about get's cannonized in some way.

Nah, I think it's okay as it is, just something to remember in the future.

[harel55]

If the Returned's painting interpretation abilities aren't augury, I don't know what is.

[ZenBossanova]

10 minutes ago, harel55 said:

If the Returned's painting interpretation abilities aren't augury, I don't know what is.

You & @Kramerfarve are exactly correct. That was an instance I had forgotten. So Augury is now accounted for.

Let me add in another form of magic to take its place: Curses. This is important in Tolkien and various folktales, so we need to include it. Any examples you guys can think of?