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goody153

Sanity of the Most Spiked Man

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We know that 

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focoma

We've seen Kandra True Bodies made of crystal, stone, or wood. Can a kandra use a True Body made of metal? If so, what happens if each metal "bone" had a Hemalurgic charge, and each one is touching an appropriate bind point?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. And that would work, better than you think, because Kandra have fluid bind points. But too many spikes can be dangerous to the psyche, even with Ati not messing things up.

/r/books AMA 2015 (March 12, 2015)

Of course Ruin is Sazed now who isn't hellbent on killing everything or making anybody who he can influence kill stuff as well but again nobody has more spikes than Marsh has in the entire Cosmere.

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Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

Did Harmony give Ironeyes full Mistborn powers, or anything other than what he has with his spikes...

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Just what he has with the spikes, I believe. No-- okay let's say this: Harmony did not do anything... That doesn't mean that Marsh hasn't done things himself.

Orem signing (Dec. 21, 2017)

This sounds like a huge implication that he did use hemalurgy or at least utilized already existing spikes for himself.

He doesn't seem homicidal and Sazed doesn't count Marsh when he said "the last time he had good conversation was with Kel-(this was around SoS)" when Marsh and Sazed basically has the most direct line communication ever considering the amount of spikes Marsh has. Why not mention Marsh as well ? Even after the fall of TLR and before Ruin was released. Sazed did mention to making an effort to communicate with Marsh since he was alienating the crew. 

So how sane do you think Marsh actually is ? Cause the spikes has to have an effect on him. 

Edited by goody153
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Marsh may be sane in the sense that he knows what he's doing, but his moral values are in question. We see in HoA that Marsh has no problem doing horrible things because of Ati, but now since Harmony is the combination of Ruin and Preservation Sazed can possibly influence Marsh using the Preservation part of him. If we're judging sanity on the basis if he's frequently killing with no purpose, then Marsh is a bit more sane. However, if sanity is based off of moral stability, then he's probably a bit off kilter.

We have to also take into effect that Marsh has suffered severe mental trauma whether because it's from Ati or the fact that he was helpless to control himself during WoA and HoA, and this in a sense might have desensitized him to a level where the only sense of conscience, in trying to achieve any goal, is from the Preservation side of Harmony. Also, Ironeyes is the best agent of Harmony's will and Sazed has probably taken Marsh's instability into account and is doing his best to keep Marsh at a level where he can be more controllable. 

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Poor thing. Marsh needs a hug. Seriously. 

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Honestly, I think Marsh would be extremely sensitive to the fact that he is open to control by a shard, even a generally benevolent one like Harmony, after his traumatizing experience with Ruin. He also found out experimentally that he could reduce Ruin's control over him through spikes in his already unusually gifted Determination. I would therefore posit that he's probably taken steps to allow himself to compound Determination.

Not only would that make him extremely difficult to influence, it would probably make him almost irresponsibly certain in the rightness of his actions. Whether he is sane or not is an excellent question, because he's definitely up to something. Could be good or bad or some super position of both.

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I personally want to see Ironeyes be a anti-hero in the next era. Kinda a wild card. A rightoues villian thats working against Trell, but not on the side of the protaginist. I agree that he probably is compounding determination but if he compounds Identity then that would also help his sanity a little bit. But if there is a way to get Marsh fight Kelsier I want to see it. If insanity is the only way... So be it

Edited by Lightblood
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No! My Marshy needs to be safe and warm and happy!

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On 2/6/2019 at 4:43 PM, Shard of Thought said:

No! My Marshy needs to be safe and warm and happy!

Yes! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Make Marsh fight to the death with his Younger (more attractive) brother!

Harmony's Ruin vs. Harmony's preservation!

Battle of the ages

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:( 

I love Marsh, but there's a dark part of me that really wants to see this. I wonder if eventually, Harmony's just gonna get mad at Kell and then have Marsh go at 'im.

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On 2/7/2019 at 6:40 AM, Lightblood said:

I personally want to see Ironeyes be a anti-hero in the next era. Kinda a wild card. A rightoues villian thats working against Trell, but not on the side of the protaginist.

You know that sounds like a really good introduction of Kelsier's character back again.

On 2/9/2019 at 2:51 AM, Lightblood said:

Yes! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Make Marsh fight to the death with his Younger (more attractive) brother!

Harmony's Ruin vs. Harmony's preservation!

Battle of the ages

Sounds like Dissociative identity disorder (DID) to me for Sazed lol

On 2/9/2019 at 3:13 AM, Shard of Thought said:

:( 

I love Marsh, but there's a dark part of me that really wants to see this. I wonder if eventually, Harmony's just gonna get mad at Kell and then have Marsh go at 'im.

If Sazed wants Kel out of the picture i don't think that'll be how it works. He isn't the invasive Ruin anymore and his main motto is give people as much choice as possible.

So he'll probably just arrange to have somebody or marsh in a scenario where they would fight each other. Or plan an entire sequence of events where it would lead to Kelsier's end without even directly being involved

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Why does everything have to be so sad with those two? Shards, this is depressing.

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8 minutes ago, Shard of Thought said:

Why does everything have to be so sad with those two? Shards, this is depressing.

Solely because Brandon knows how much they mean to us and likes to rip our hearts to shreds.

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On 2/8/2019 at 2:13 PM, Shard of Thought said:

:( 

I love Marsh, but there's a dark part of me that really wants to see this. I wonder if eventually, Harmony's just gonna get mad at Kell and then have Marsh go at 'im.

If Harmony wanted Kelsier out of the way he could just take direct control of him. He is a Fullborn through Hemalurgy, which means he has a minimum of 16 spikes.

As far as Marsh's sanity, he seems to be quite stable in his interaction with Marasi at the end of Alloy of Law.

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On 1/27/2019 at 5:42 PM, Shard of Thought said:

Poor thing. Marsh needs a hug. Seriously. 

This sounds like a painful prospect.  Like hugging a porcupine, or a particularly surly hedgehog.

 

In all seriousness, Harmony has trouble directly interfering due to the competing nature of his intents, and his own desire to let people learn on their own.  I don't think he wanted Kel to do whatever it was that led to his current incarnation, based on what was said in Secret History, but Kel is also kinda permanently around - at least in the sense that he was trapped in the cognitive.  

 

Mix that with Kel's experimentation, the fact that Marsh has acted as Harmony's agent, and the fact that Brandon has stated that Kel would be a villain in most other series has me aligning with the view that he will be an era villain for sure.  Especially given how he dislikes Hoid, who is confirmed as the Era 4 protagonist.

 

So let's face it.  Kel was an anti-hero at best.  He got the role of hero because he was fighting something much worse than himself, but his methods were questionable at best, and he allowed his prejudice, hatred, and thirst for revenge to drive too many of his actions.  I'm pretty sure that Wax and Wayne would find him to be villainous if he gets any screen time.

 

So yeah, I do see a conflict between Marsh and Kel.  I don't think I see Marsh surviving that though.

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39 minutes ago, Stark said:

Mix that with Kel's experimentation, the fact that Marsh has acted as Harmony's agent, and the fact that Brandon has stated that Kel would be a villain in most other series has me aligning with the view that he will be an era villain for sure.  Especially given how he dislikes Hoid, who is confirmed as the Era 4 protagonist.

I've always seen the whole "Kel would be a villain" thing through the lens of comic book characters. To most heroes, the Punisher or the Huntress would be villains. They flat out murder people. Their goals are altruistic, but their methods are brutal.

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1 hour ago, Stark said:

This sounds like a painful prospect.  Like hugging a porcupine, or a particularly surly hedgehog.

 

So? Won't stop me.

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52 minutes ago, SwordNimiForPresident said:

I've always seen the whole "Kel would be a villain" thing through the lens of comic book characters. To most heroes, the Punisher or the Huntress would be villains. They flat out murder people. Their goals are altruistic, but their methods are brutal.

True.  Vin and Wax have killed as well.  I think the difference is why.  Kelsier went out into the night looking for people to kill.  He broke into Noble houses with the goal of murder.  Most of the time, Vin or Wax killed those attacking them, or those who would harm the people they were protecting.  I think the Intent here is what matters, as it is the Cosmere.

 

Kel did kill to protect.  But he tried to kill that soldier that questioned him.  He went out looking to murder people based on their birth or who they work for.  In most stories, told from any perspective other than his crew's, he would be the villain.  But he would definitely get along well with the punisher or huntress.

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On 2/11/2019 at 9:45 AM, Stark said:

True.  Vin and Wax have killed as well.  I think the difference is why.  Kelsier went out into the night looking for people to kill.  He broke into Noble houses with the goal of murder.  Most of the time, Vin or Wax killed those attacking them, or those who would harm the people they were protecting.  I think the Intent here is what matters, as it is the Cosmere.

 

Kel did kill to protect.  But he tried to kill that soldier that questioned him.  He went out looking to murder people based on their birth or who they work for.  In most stories, told from any perspective other than his crew's, he would be the villain.  But he would definitely get along well with the punisher or huntress.

Wax admits that if the survivors crew lived in his day, He probably would've tried to bring them to justice

Besides the fact that Wax would've been the best skybreaker ever, I find it telling that the main protagonist of the second era would find himself opposing Kelsier. My vote is for Era 4 villain

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14 hours ago, Lightblood said:

Besides the fact that Wax would've been the best skybreaker ever

I think that Wax's compassion (e.g. his sparing of Wayne) would make him a better fit for the Windrunners than the Skybreakers.  

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1 hour ago, Scion of the Mists said:

I think that Wax's compassion (e.g. his sparing of Wayne) would make him a better fit for the Windrunners than the Skybreakers.  

He's in between if anything, He is very commited to the law, and hunts down people if they break the law regardless of who they are or what they did. I'm pretty sure the Marksman is like "why are you hunting me? there are a bunch of worse people?" and Wax is just like, "well you broke the law and you killed someone". He reminds me of Nale, He hunts down people that broke the law but also was trying to find people connected to the set. Nale was hunting down people that broke the law while also following his own agenda. He still has compassion, unlike Nale, so he was probably like early Nale before he became all unattached.

Edited by Lightblood
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10 minutes ago, Lightblood said:

He's in between if anything, He is very commited to the law, and hunts down people if they break the law regardless of who they are or what they did. I'm pretty sure the Marksman is like "why are you hunting me? there are a bunch of worse people?" and Wax is just like, "well you broke the law and you killed someone". He reminds me of Nale, He hunts down people that broke the law but also was trying to find people connected to the set. Nale was hunting down people that broke the law while also following his own agenda. He still has compassion, unlike Nale, so he was probably like early Nale before he became all unattached.

This is getting pretty far off topic, but I don't think that hunting down a murderer who might not be the worst murderer in the world is Skybreaker-level blind obedience to the law.  I tend to think of the Skybreaker-mindset as executing someone who stole bread to feed their starving family.  

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