Onslaught Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 So I have been trying to get a mate who is into reading and loves fantasy to read Sanderson. He eventually adopted listening to the Graphic Audio version of Mistborn. Upon completing the series I was excited to discuss it with him. When asked what he thought he said "Everything was just too convenient. It felt like everything wrapped up to neatly." I was taken aback at this but thought I'd consult everyone here. I know Sanderson is an outliner and so his endings the off loose threads but it seemed to me, my friend was saying there was no real struggle. What are your thoughts on this view point? (Disclaimer - my friend likes to read Book of the Malezan, Wheel of Time, Dark Tower) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goody153 Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 I have read all except Darktower that your friend has read also read(or at least you listed). I suppose it depends on personal preference. Like i really prefer Sandersons "everything wrapped up to neatly" style as if you leave room for improvisation in the future it tends to end up in plot asspulls which i'm really sick of from any medium of fiction(this is unbelievably common on anime/manga medium even with fantasy novels). I just dislike retcons and just convenient plot twist without clear setup. So maybe your friend likes ambiguity in the plot. I don't. There is still a benefit in that style tho like for example Hyperion(scifi novel) didn't neatly wrapup everything(at least on the first book .. i decided not to read the next books .. it ended too well that i didn't wanna read the sequels that could ruin it) and it left so much room for imagination. It went really well IMO. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantus Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 I too have reads many of those listed that he likes. It might all be personal preference, Id call it "Coming Together" rather than being overly convenient, myself, and a hallmark of Brandon's writing for me has always been subverting expectations to accomplish it, which is one of the reasons I really enjoy his work. But of all his works, Mistborn was one of the ones that I thought wrapped everything up the least in many ways: I was left with tons of Questions that were only hinted at, hell it needed a Secret History to explained some of them. Id suggest seeing if you can convince him to keep at it with Alloy of Law, it's might show him how much story there is left to tell on Scadrial, and it's probably one of the most in-the-moment Fun of them all (Because Wayne) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onslaught Posted January 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 (edited) Keeping this spoiler free, he said he felt characters didn't need to struggle, the answers just seemed to pop up right in front of them when they needed it. I disagreed (especially about the struggle), saying that while yes, they found the answers when they needed, it was a result of their journey, not a Hail Mary or "the item you needed was in your pocket all along." I think he expected more grit. I told him that Sanderson was not a GRRM type author, the grit comes from the characters persevering not the R-rated content. I told him to read the books first next time, then listen to the audio and see if it makes a difference. Edited January 23, 2019 by Onslaught Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrikerEZ Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 @Onslaught You know, I can see where he’s coming from, but I really disagree with your mate. I think that the entirety of Era 1 was wrapped up so nicely, just everything fell into place so perfectly. That was kind of the point. And I don’t know how he can think the characters didn’t need to struggle, especially considering the two main leads died at the end of the series. He’s totally entitled to his opinion though. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turtle373 Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 HOA spoilers Spoiler and Sazed during HOA had some serious struggles, he felt as though his entire life had been living a lie and that it no longer had meaning, and yet he continued to persevere, the books wrapped up nicely but I also prefer that over what feels like an unfinished ending, and I feel as though there were some serious struggles 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onslaught Posted January 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 @StrikerEZ & @Turtle373 I pointed out those exact points. He argued that Sazed "conveniently" knew everything he needed to know. I disagreed, saying there was nothing convenient about what he knew. Maybe he just doesn't like Sanderson's style and author voice. I was just curious if anyone else agreed with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrikerEZ Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 11 minutes ago, Onslaught said: @StrikerEZ & @Turtle373 I pointed out those exact points. He argued that Sazed "conveniently" knew everything he needed to know. I disagreed, saying there was nothing convenient about what he knew. Maybe he just doesn't like Sanderson's style and author voice. I was just curious if anyone else agreed with him. ...........wait, is he talking about Sazed’s metalminds helping Sazed know how to fix the planet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onslaught Posted January 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 Spoiler Yes, he said it was convenient that all his research into religion gave him the answers to "perfectly" fix the world. I tried to say that ruin and preservation also expanded his mind and awareness but he said it fit "Too nicely" and Sazed should have made huge mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turtle373 Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 Spoiler well I mean technically he did, he made life too easy for era 2 Scadrians that they didn't need to try or push themselves. although that will probably change once the southern Scadrians come in 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goody153 Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 about HoA Spoiler The ending was technically unfinished. After all the Hero of Ages is apparently not a one-time hero but a "hero for all ages". So the story has just begun from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlion Blight Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 (edited) I mean, sounds like he has objections to Sazed's knowledge being a Chekov's Gun more then a character trait. Like, "oh, it was mentioned Sazed knows a bunch about religion and stuff, and that must be important and stuff because everything has a reason/purpose in Sanderson!" We might call it "tight storytelling", and though it can be done very well, it will never feel completely organic. Also, though it serves very nicely on a pure ly escapism view, if you are wanting something more (like intriguing ideas) tight storytelling alone is not going to cut it. And let's face it, Mistborn doesn't even have as many intriguing ideas as Dark Tower (speaking of endings that are too convenient). So what we have is just the basic issue with Brandon Sanderson: it is almost purely storytelling/plot-driven. Outside of those two characteristics, you aren't going to find anything insightful about ideas of governance, geopolitics or multi-verses. Any "commentary" and world building exists principally to serve the storytelling. In other words, so that the reader can have "fun". Contrast that with Erickson, who will find any excuse to go on a diatribe and commentate on history, post modern views and whatever thought strikes him. So, at some point your friend went from reading for fun (hence why he likes Dark Tower. He read it before the change) to wanting "something else" from his reading in addition to enjoyment. I imagine edification and an expansion of his worldview. Brandon Sanderson doesn't really provide that. Or rather if he does, it is at such a low level that he does not compared with other authors. Maybe someday your friend will want a purely "fun" read, and that's when it will be best to read Brandon Sanderson. That's why I read the cosmere, because it's fun. That's also why I don't read any of Brandon Sanderson's non-cosmere stuff. Because it's not fun to me, and Brandon has little to nothing else to offer besides a fun escape. Edited January 25, 2019 by TheOoklaThatComesBefore Ease of reading edits 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onslaught Posted January 26, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2019 That is a really insightful view. Maybe he does take it how you have described. I don't think I've really considered the points you make. I will still encourage him to read, rather than listen, to a few more Sanderson books and see if he gets a different feel for the writing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Embrisk Posted January 27, 2019 Report Share Posted January 27, 2019 (edited) To me, mistborn first series is the series which stands out from his other books as being strangely generic, especially the endings of the first and third books. The background is unusually detailed, (magic systems and other world building stuff,) but it still follows the ideas of "main character uses their powers to defeat bad guy, who everyone thought was invincible." Edited January 27, 2019 by Sharshiblarb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onslaught Posted January 27, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2019 When I first read it, I expected it to take 3 books to achieve the result from the first one. I think the magic system is what held it apart from being generic. My mate did like the magic but had a lot of questions. He asked if it becomes clearer in Wax & Wayne. I said "It builds on it..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Embrisk Posted January 27, 2019 Report Share Posted January 27, 2019 (edited) On 24/01/2019 at 6:11 AM, Onslaught said: @StrikerEZ & @Turtle373 I pointed out those exact points. He argued that Sazed "conveniently" knew everything he needed to know. I disagreed, saying there was nothing convenient about what he knew. Maybe he just doesn't like Sanderson's style and author voice. I was just curious if anyone else agreed with him. I'm not a fan of Sanderson's cosmere voice. I feel he has a much more engaging writing voice whenever it's not cosmere. When I was reading mistborn, it felt like the plot of a computer game. -The enemy allomancers have an attack pattern of two at a time, and attack in waves getting progressively stronger. -Every time a quest is completed, the protagonists are given another miniquest. -Vinn is given one training session with each type of allomancer as a tutorial. -the kandra conveniently allowing themselves to become part of the plot despite thousands of years without problem. Edited January 27, 2019 by Sharshiblarb 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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