Bigmikey357

Phase states of Investiture

12 posts in this topic

Solid. Liquid. Gas. Plasma. All matter on the macro level exists in one of these 4 phases. From my understanding, the prevailing catalyst for the transfer between the states is temperature. Water turns solid at 32 degrees Fahrenheit, gas at 212 degrees Fahrenheit, plasma is variable. 

Investiture is the third constant in the Cosmere and, like matter, it also has phases. We've seen investiture sources as solid (atium beads, Shardblades, ect.), liquid (perpendicularities), gas (mists of Preservation) and plasma (AonDor). My post deals with phase changes.

Energy is another universe constant in both our universe and the Cosmere. Among the other services energy provides a working universe, it acts as an agent of change when it comes to transitioning between phases of matter. The most common type of energy that facilitates phase change is thermal energy. But due to narrative evidence we know that Investiture doesn't work like that. Temperature has not been a factor when we've seen Investiture in it's different phases. It hasn't been noticeable hotter or colder when seeing our investiture sources in its different states. We do know however based on the condensation that forms when a Shardblade manifests in the Physical Realm that some type of energy transfer is taking place. 

The question is, what type of energy drives Investiture phases and more importantly in Era 4 and beyond is given significant technological upgrades can those phase changes be induced artificially? If you melt enough Tanavastium would you get Honor's shardpool? The spren likely would not be pleased. Can you make the mists condense into a harmonious liquid? It probably could be done if one doesn't mind explosions. If iterations on Scadrial is any indication then thermal energy isn't the way to do it. So what is?

My theory? Naturally occurring phase changes happen through Shardic Intervention. That's obvious. The non-obvious part, the mechanism through which it works is friction. There are 3 Realms of Cosmere existence, Physical, Cognitive and Spiritual. I propose that these realms are both layered and touching. Normally separate, these Realms can be transversed. It just takes a buttload of energy to do so. The realms naturally rub against one another producing a sort of potential energy available to harness. Currently the Shards and those who have Ascended have access to the vast potential energy produced by that friction. The Shards then decide what form this energy takes, either consciously according to the properties of their Investiture or unconsciously due to how Adonalasium was set up prior to the Shattering. 

Now each Godmetel will react differently depending on its properties. The periodic table of Investiture only has 17 items at present. So different Investiture will be harder or easier to change phases just like it's easier to turn bronze into a liquid than it is to turn Iron. But as the study of Investiture becomes more prevalent civilizations within the Cosmere will be better able to manipulate Investiture. I'm convinced that harnessing that friction energy will be key to this goal.

Thoughts?

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I like it :-) I'm assuming that at least some of the manifestations themselves would lend themselves towards altering the state of the investiture naturally, if with a little coaxing, though what is potentially very interesting is the volume change that would be invoked by that change - how much mist is needed to form a bead of Lerasium (or Atium, as the mists have combined in a sense), and how much mist would a Lerasium bead release if it evaporated? Would they change states to liquid first, or immediately sublimate? 

 

I am on board with this theory :-)

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"Periodic Table of Investiture."

That better be a poster Sanderson sells in 25 years when we get to Era 4.

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34 minutes ago, HSuperLee said:

"Periodic Table of Investiture."

That better be a poster Sanderson sells in 25 years when we get to Era 4.

I wonder what order they'll be in. Which shard gets to be the hydrogen analog?

1 hour ago, Ixthos said:

I like it :-) I'm assuming that at least some of the manifestations themselves would lend themselves towards altering the state of the investiture naturally, if with a little coaxing, though what is potentially very interesting is the volume change that would be invoked by that change - how much mist is needed to form a bead of Lerasium (or Atium, as the mists have combined in a sense), and how much mist would a Lerasium bead release if it evaporated? Would they change states to liquid first, or immediately sublimate? 

 

I am on board with this theory :-)

Another potential question, how would the Investiture elements mix? Say one could acquire all the Shards in a cup of liquid Investiture.  Would they mix, being from the same initial source and end up making liquid Adonalasium or would they act like oil and water? Would some elements mix more easily due to either compatible or completely opposite (opposites attract magnetically) Intent? Brandon was a chemistry major before becoming a professional author. I'm certain that these questions are gonna get asked.

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I suspect that most would not initially mix - some might even react violently, like (unpublished works spoilers:)

Spoiler

The Aethers, Night and Illuminous in the climax

or like Ruin and Preservation. It probably would involve getting them into the right state or charge before they can combine, and then it would also become a case of getting the ratios right.

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I have no idea how you would cause the phase change to occur... But it's definitely possible. 

Quote

BlackYeti

Because you've talked about alloying the god metals with other ones-- I was wondering whether you would be able to melt them down as you would with normal metals.

Brandon Sanderson

If you could distill the god metal: you could distill it out of the mist, that's theoretically possible.

Manchester signing (Aug. 6, 2014)

So it's theoretically possible to create a solid from gaseous Investiture... I have no clue what to make if that. 

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I like this a lot. Another interesting question that I hope gets answered is whether phase changes would be easier or more difficult/impossible in the Cognitive Realm. The mists seem to form within and leave the physical plane very easily, since there aren’t pools of liquid Preservation/Harmony that ever appear to form so far as we know. Maybe they, and by extension other physical manifestations of Investiture, are more “real” in the Cognitive Realm, and thus are more easily manipulated like physical matter. Or maybe Investiture only really works differently in the Spiritual Realm, and in either other realm requires tricky manipulation to mess with its physical state

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I wish there was a way to test it. But did you not notice in that WOB that when the questioner said melt Brandon said distill? I found the word choice important given the topic I introduced. 

Speaking of initiating phase changes in matter, there are other methods of converting solids to liquid or gas besides thermal energy. I believe pressure manipulation is one way but I'm no expert. The last science class I took was like 15 years ago. Can someone think of any others? That may give us a clue as to how an inhabitant of Cosmere space could go about inducing phase changes in Investiture. As of now we only see naturally occurring Investiture, or at least Shard-guided. 

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Posted (edited)

8 minutes ago, Bigmikey357 said:

I wish there was a way to test it. But did you not notice in that WOB that when the questioner said melt Brandon said distill? I found the word choice important given the topic I introduced. 

Speaking of initiating phase changes in matter, there are other methods of converting solids to liquid or gas besides thermal energy. I believe pressure manipulation is one way but I'm no expert. The last science class I took was like 15 years ago. Can someone think of any others? That may give us a clue as to how an inhabitant of Cosmere space could go about inducing phase changes in Investiture. As of now we only see naturally occurring Investiture, or at least Shard-guided. 

You are correct, pressure is also able to induce phase changes. Basically, phases are just how tightly a material's molecules are holding onto each other. Increasing the temperature increases the amount of energy the molecules have, and with enough energy, they are able to separate into more loose forms, aka liquids and then gasses. Increasing the pressure does the opposite. It forces the molecules to be compressed into a tighter and more specified shape, turning gasses into liquids and then into solids. Interestingly, most substances I know of have a specific pressure and temperature where solid liquid and gas can exist together called the triple point. The fact that we've seen all phases of investiture in relatively the same conditions indicates that standard environments are the triple point for investiture, which might suggest that it's relatively easy to change from one phase to another.

Edited by HSuperLee
Correcting a spelling mistakes
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21 hours ago, Calderis said:

I have no idea how you would cause the phase change to occur... But it's definitely possible. 

So it's theoretically possible to create a solid from gaseous Investiture... I have no clue what to make if that. 

I bet the Surges of Tension and Cohesion would come in handy here.

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5 hours ago, Bigmikey357 said:

Speaking of initiating phase changes in matter, there are other methods of converting solids to liquid or gas besides thermal energy. I believe pressure manipulation is one way but I'm no expert. 

Yeah, it's temperature and pressure.  

See the figures here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase_diagram

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Posted (edited)

22 hours ago, Bigmikey357 said:

I wish there was a way to test it. But did you not notice in that WOB that when the questioner said melt Brandon said distill? I found the word choice important given the topic I introduced. 

I didn’t catch that. Maybe distilling the mists requires some contraption made out of Aluminum that prevents the Investiture from leaving the physical realm. Or maybe there’s some trick you can do to emulate what Vin did and suck up the mists to condense them that way. Or both together in one fabrial/machine

Edited by King's Twit
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