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If Maya revives, will she be the same?


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5 hours ago, Calderis said:

As I've stated numerous times before, the restoration that's happening with Maya's mind, in my opinion, means that a Nahel bond is forming. I don't think that she could be restored by anything other than what she lost. 

I don't think that was "ripped out" of her was actually a part of her that can't return. Spren typically have no Physical aspect, and so when they transition to the Physical they become weak mentally. They go stupid. I think the deadeyes are just an extreme of this. 

When the bond was abruptly severed, rather than ending naturally through dissolution or death of the Radiant, they were left in a state in which they are supposed to have a fully realized corporeal Physical form. Without the bond to a Radiant that allows them to piggyback on the Physical aspect of the Radiant, that means that having that Physical form must rob investiture from the only place they have to support it. Their mind. Just as merely existing in the physical without a bond makes them function like a non-Sapient spren, being forced into a Physical form completely destroys the ability to function. 

I think that what was "ripped out" is still a part of them, it's just forced into maintaining a Physical aspect that they aren't supposed to have in the first place. Even unsummoned, this would still ruin them, just as a person in the Cognitive from the Physical still has a Physical aspect that allows them to transition back. 

In my opinion, her mind returning and the decreased time allowed for her to be summoned means that a Nahel bond is being restored to her and she's beginning to rely on Adolin's Physical aspect in the same way she used to rely on her Radiants 

For Maya to be healed, Adolin will be an Edgedancer. 

That's great and I respect your opinion, but just like I said before, in my opinion you cannot restore investiture out of nothing. Syl said you break a rock in half, the rock is not dead, it is still a rock, but the rock is still missing a chunk. If you have a brick in a wall, and break a piece leaving a hole in its place, you are still missing a piece. Patching the hole with putty does not magically make it a whole brick once more. To me the bond fills the cracks of the person, creating like an umbilical cord connecting the person and the spren. The description of the WoB reads to me that the chord and a portion of the spren was ripped out. I am sorry but I can't read that WoB any other way. All Adolin in my mind has is a taped on bond, made slightly stronger by his actions. Dalinar did the exact same thing with Oathbringer evidenced by him holding the blade and it whimpered instead of screaming because it remembered the oaths he kept. I have a hard time believing over the centuries no other person bonded to a shardblade ever acted honorably and treated their blade well, when doing so was a tradition from Adolin's own mouth. So for me, if the only requirement to revive a shardblade involves holding true to the code of the radiant order that coincides with the blade, then it should have happened already. I still maintain something extra needs to be done to rebuild what was taken away from Maya and then Adolin can successfully bond her from what he has already strengthened. I am not saying Adolin has done nothing. All I am saying is something in addition needs to be done. But as the information we have is little, it still very much falls into the realm of personal opinion on all sides. So I wish you luck with your theory! 

Edited by Pathfinder
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@Pathfinder and I'm saying that if something is actually missing from Mayalaran, not ust redistributed, then she shouldn't be improving at all.

Nothing that Adolin has done should have restored any Investiture to her. For her to be healing already, and her communication and faster summoning shows she is, means that whatever damage was done is being reversed. By the idea that something was actually taken from her, she should still be a dead blade incapable of acting any different than any other. 

I agree you can't restore Investiture out of nothing. That's precisely why i don't think it's gone. 

The bond is what was ripped out. And a bond is Connection. But Connection is not Investiture. 

Quote

Aurimus [PENDING REVIEW]

As the two Realms, the Cognitive and the Spiritual, are, well, fictional... Are they all comprised of Investiture, completely?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Yes. No, completely? Well, here's the thing. Investiture, matter, and energy are all the same thing in the cosmere. So, just like energy and matter are the same thing here. So, yes, everything's made of Investiture, in the same way that everything's made of energy in our world. Does that make sense?

Aurimus [PENDING REVIEW]

So, what about what spren are made of in the Cognitive Realm? Is that just Investiture?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

So, yeah, I'll dig more into that. I'm gonna go with Investiture for now, but I could change that as I move along. What I'm kind of debating is, is there a separate Cognitive state, and I don't think so. So I'm gonna go with Investiture for now.

Aurimus [PENDING REVIEW]

How about Connection?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Connection is, like, the equivalent of a quantum connection in our world, so it's more like a force than something comprised of something. The question is like, "What is gravity comprised of?" And then you start asking weird questions.

Oathbringer London signing (Nov. 28, 2017)

What I'm saying does not contradict the WoB that something was ripped out. I just disagree that what was taken was actually a piece of her. 

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Also with regard to the fact that nobody else has revived a dead spren previously, I have a few observations,

1) I suspect Adolin is overestimating how common his consideration for his Shardblade is. It may be common to talk about it, but I suspect very few do it, especially to the degree that Adolin has.

2) She did not show any obvious signs of improvement until after they met in Shadesmar. I suspect that that meeting in Shadesmar facilitated the deepening of their bond and I also suspect that such a thing has never happened before. It's obviously not common.

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1 hour ago, Calderis said:

@Pathfinder and I'm saying that if something is actually missing from Mayalaran, not ust redistributed, then she shouldn't be improving at all.

Nothing that Adolin has done should have restored any Investiture to her. For her to be healing already, and her communication and faster summoning shows she is, means that whatever damage was done is being reversed. By the idea that something was actually taken from her, she should still be a dead blade incapable of acting any different than any other. 

I agree you can't restore Investiture out of nothing. That's precisely why i don't think it's gone. 

The bond is what was ripped out. And a bond is Connection. But Connection is not Investiture. 

What I'm saying does not contradict the WoB that something was ripped out. I just disagree that what was taken was actually a piece of her. 

No problem. I understand what you are saying. All I said was I interpret it differently. I feel what both Adolin and Dalinar have done by living the ideals is strengthen their Connection (using big c on purpose) to the spren. I do not feel Maya is "improving". I think what Adolin and Dalinar are/were doing was (as referenced in a prior post) insulating the wiring a bit more. They are receiving more because they are slightly improving the already jury rigged connection. But just like a plug wired directly to the eletrical wires, you are not going to get the same effect as a fully installed socket. That is why the socket needs to be repaired first. So everything Adolin has done, has strengthened a faux connection, but it is still a faux connection. Personally, off the cuff and with no real evidence to back it, I think Dalinar has to provide a huge infusion of investiture via his stormlight producing ability, but focused through Adolin and Maya to regrow the portion missing, and super charge the bond for it to become an actual nahel bond fully restored. That is my interpretation of the information we have at hand. Both yours and mine can co-exist till we get more information. 

 

1 hour ago, CrazyRioter said:

Also with regard to the fact that nobody else has revived a dead spren previously, I have a few observations,

1) I suspect Adolin is overestimating how common his consideration for his Shardblade is. It may be common to talk about it, but I suspect very few do it, especially to the degree that Adolin has.

2) She did not show any obvious signs of improvement until after they met in Shadesmar. I suspect that that meeting in Shadesmar facilitated the deepening of their bond and I also suspect that such a thing has never happened before. It's obviously not common.

Hmmm trying to add your quote to my existing post but it sorta split off so not sure how this will ultimately show. to respond

1) ehhh, I respect that is how you interpret that scene. For me he said it was a swordsman's tradition of respecting your blade. Viewing it as an extension of yourself. A form of sword kata, like Kaladin with his staff/spear. My point is common or not, over thousands of years, with generations of wielders, if the number of possibilities can be brought to 1, then it certainly can be brought to 2, 3, and so on. It doesn't matter if it is a 1 percent chance. 1 percent of 10,000 is still 100 people which is a very significant number.

edit: to illustrate. taking a lot of off the cuff numbers so this is in no way concrete, but lets crunch some. According to the coppermind, Dalinar sees in his visions about 300 shardblades. He comments that there are less than 100 shardblades known of (20 in Alethkar, 20 in Jah Keved, 5 in  Thayla, and 1 each in a bunch of other kingdoms). So lets lowball it and say there are 50 shardblades for us to play with. Now we need to know how much time it has been since the Recreance. WoB says "around 2000 years ago or more". So again lets low ball it at 2000 years. A random google search says there are roughly 80 generations in 2000 years. So we have 50 shardblades, assuming one person holds on to that one shardblade for the entirety of their life (without being killed, stolen, passed on early, etc), that gives us 50 people. 50 people over 80 generations gives us 4,000 people. 1 percent of 4,000 is 40. Now that is not counting that we don't know if of those 50 blades, 90 percent are windrunner, or they are equally distributed amongst all the orders, of which there are 10. And I cannot possibly imagine how to calculate the probability based on all those numbers. But for me if even a 1 percent chance can yield potentially 40 people (no matter how badly all that math was calculated), then I think that is a decent chance someone other than Adolin could have gotten a blade, acted honorably, held to the sword traditions and restored his blade if that was all that was required to do so. 

 

2)We do see signs of "improvement" ( I put quotes because as I typed to Caldaris, I do not personally term it improvement. I view it as a strengthening of a faux bond. It didn't get "better". It just reinforced what was already there. It will certainly assist in my opinion when the outside addition comes into play to restore the "socket" and I stress I am not saying Adolin is doing nothing, nor diminishing his accomplishments. I just do not view it as a vector on a scale that is increasing in numeric value.) with Dalinar's blade oathbringer when he is able to hold it and it whimpers instead of screaming because it remembers his oaths. Much like Maya with Adolin, just Adolin at the time could not hear the difference because he is as yet not a bonded radiant to hear it.  

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8 minutes ago, Brightness Jencee said:

What if Adolin happened to be a direct descendent of the Radiant that had bonded Maya? Could that give him the extra "something" needed to revive her? Just curious.

I think it would be highly unlikely to matter. Not impossible I guess, but highly unlikely. Do you have a reason behind that speculation?

Edited by CrazyRioter
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@CrazyRioter Well, I was sort thinking about realmatic theory. Do spren have a spiritual aspect at all? Could the nahel bond help them enter both the physics and spiritual realms? Could the connection to the spiritual realm be what was ripped away? 

And on the human side... Is only the physical aspect hereditary or could a person inherit something of their ancestors' cognitive and spiritual aspects as well? If so, could Adolin have inherited enough cognitive and spiritual "genetic" stuff to give back to Maya what was taken when the 1st bond was broken. I think I do view all of this as more of a "connection" thing  like @Calderis was saying earlier because Maya's entire sentient existence in the physical realm was dependent upon her connection to her first Radiant, so losing that connection would be akin to having her life ripped away. If Adolin was a direct descendent of that Radiant and had a very similar cognitive/spiritual blueprint, maybe he would be able to provide that specific connection that Maya had lost.

I don't know if any of that made sense at all, but I hope so. My understanding of realmatic theory is very basic so this may be totally of base.  It was just a thought I had.

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IMO, the Nightwatcher might be able to heal her. Maya is a spren of Cultivation, after all.

Sure, it's beyond most things we've seen or heard the Nightwatcher doing, but Lift is able to turn food into Investiture after paying her a visit. 

On that note, could Lift potentially help Maya out?

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The Nightwatcher or especially Cultivation (who I suspect is actually responsible for Lift's weirdness) could probably help, but I don't see that as necessary or narratively interesting.

Lift can probably help indirectly by helping Adolin swear the Ideals (though they are a matter of personal understanding so it's very much ultimately up to Adolin to work that out, with whatever help Maya can give him.) but I don't see how she'd help directly.

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The problem I have with the theory that Maya needs to be ‘fixed’ by a Bondsmith or some other highly Invested thing is that it really wouldn’t be all that interesting to read. It’d just feel like a deus ex machina thing, like “oh, Maya is dead, let’s just shove some power into her, and now she’s alive!” Yeah, no. Brandon is too good of an author to rely on something like that.

I think it’d be much more interesting and far more powerful if Maya revives just through the budding bond between her and Adolin. Mainly because, narratively, I think it’s more important for characters to have to work to get what they want instead of having it handed to them.

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1 hour ago, StrikerEZ said:

The problem I have with the theory that Maya needs to be ‘fixed’ by a Bondsmith or some other highly Invested thing is that it really wouldn’t be all that interesting to read. It’d just feel like a deus ex machina thing, like “oh, Maya is dead, let’s just shove some power into her, and now she’s alive!” Yeah, no. Brandon is too good of an author to rely on something like that.

I think it’d be much more interesting and far more powerful if Maya revives just through the budding bond between her and Adolin. Mainly because, narratively, I think it’s more important for characters to have to work to get what they want instead of having it handed to them.

I totally respect that you feel you would like a narrative where it is only Maya and Adolin working towards awakening Maya, but I just wanted to add a bit because with all due respect I feel the term"deus ex machina" gets used too often and very often it is used incorrectly. The whole purpose of the trope is that when a situation comes about where there is no means of escape, no means of resolution for the heroes, when based on everything we have seen and know about the world there is no way for the heroes to triumph or have a happy ending, a literal "god" shows up, takes pity and snaps its fingers making everything suddenly resolved/ok. This is brought up when narratively there was no foreshadowing, or indication the ultimate resolution is at all possible. That is why the resolution feels cheap, or unearned. Now it could be argued that Dalinar's uniting of the three realms was a deus ex machina. But I argue it was not. We know Dalinar can "boost" other radiant's abilities (Shallan's lightweaving). We know as per the Stormfather that Dalinar has spiritual adhesion and that power involved bringing things together. We see him hear the very soul of the stones and reunite it as it calls to him to be one once more. We see him against the Stormfather's will, form it into a shardblade-esque key to use the oathgate. So we know Dalinar can manipulate investiture in ways we have never seen before, and that he can also access the spiritual realm in some ways while doing so. So when all of this is lined up, Dalinar bringing together the three realms and summoning stormlight does not come so far from left field that to me it is a deus ex machina. Now adding to that, we now see that Dalinar can bring the three realms together. Dalinar can communicate with the soul of an object. And finally Dalinar can produce and focus raw investiture. So by its very definition if Dalinar were to help Adolin awaken Maya, it would not be a deus ex machina. Now you are perfectly entitled to not prefer that narrative. I just feel we should shy away from such terminology when to me it is not applicable. I personally think it could be a wonderful moment shared and a deeper bond grown between Dalinar and Adolin, while taking nothing away from Adolin's accomplishment while remaining Reamatically sound and viable by Dalinar helping Adolin awaken Maya. But understandably to each their own

Edited by Pathfinder
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I think Dalinar is likely to be having a bigger problem with Adolin's ganking of Sadeas than the Stormfather will. And anyway, the Cultivationspren are more Cultivation-oriented anyway. I don't that the Stormfather even comes into it. If anything, renewed hope for his lost children would overcome any quibbles he has about Adolin killing a genuinely awful perosn

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15 minutes ago, insert_anagram_here said:

With the Dalinar involvement in this speculative scenario, I'd like to say that I'd love to see Dalinar trying to explain to Stormfather why Adolin should become a KR, especially after Sadea's murder. I do not think he would agree tbh.

I think that could be a beautiful moment for Adolin. Just picture him standing before the grandness of the stormfather, saying with absolute sincerity

"I am not asking for myself, nor for the ability to become a knight radiant. I am asking for Maya. Let her live again. Let her choose. If what we share even has the chance to bring her back, I feel it is worth the risk. If I am not worthy, at least she would be whole again. At least she could return to her family, and if she so chose she could find another. Someone worthy of her. Our world has forgotten those we have betrayed. Those oaths we have broken. Let me help Maya be remembered. Let me help give her a chance."

Then after they restore Maya, she can choose to bond Adolin. When the stormfather warns her like he did with Syl, she can turn to him, stand up for Adolin and claim Adolin for her own. See? How is that not beautiful and poignant for Adolin? How is that taking anything away from his moment with Maya (not saying you said that, but using your post to illustrate the point)

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On 1/12/2019 at 10:35 PM, CrazyRioter said:

She will probably be different than she once was, due to trauma if nothing else, but I don't think she will be fundamentally a different being and I think Adolin will end up as a basically-normal Edgedancer. They certainly won't be as weird as Renarin and Glys are.

Most of the interesting implications will be for how they relate to each other, and how others react to them.

Do we know that Maya was an ex- Cultivation spren? Could I have the quote on this?

Because if she is then maybe something about her surges (regrowth in particular) is a special case of why she, and not other shardblades, can possibly be revived. 

I was thinking that maybe the only reason that she would be able to come back is because there is a bondsmith once again. Because there had to be people that were this close to their shardblades, (talking to them, respecting them, etc.) But I think that the reason Maya can communicate with him is not only with his connection to the sword (we also see this kinda connection between Dalinar and Oathbringer) but also the fact that Dalinar just opened Honors perpendicularity. I say this because this is the only time we see Maya communicate to Adolin. So I think if she comes back it'll have to do with re-growth mixed with the bondsmith power.

Get me that quote if you can

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3 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

I think that could be a beautiful moment for Adolin. Just picture him standing before the grandness of the stormfather, saying with absolute sincerity "I am not asking for myself, nor for the ability to become a knight radiant. I am asking for Maya. Let her live again. Let her choose. If what we share even has the chance to bring her back, I feel it is worth the risk. If I am not worthy, at least she would be whole again. At least she could return to her family, and if she so chose she could find another. Someone worthy of her. Our world has forgotten those we have betrayed. Those oaths we have broken. Let me help Maya be remembered. Let me help give her a chance."

Then after they restore Maya, she can choose to bond Adolin. When the stormfather warns her like he did with Syl, she can turn to him, stand up for Adolin and claim Adolin for her own. See? How is that not beautiful and poignant for Adolin? How is that taking anything away from his moment with Maya (not saying you said that, but using your post to illustrate the point)

I certainly imagine Stormfather saying no to that, but that's probably just me  :ph34r:

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3 minutes ago, Lightblood said:

Do we know that Maya was an ex- Cultivation spren? Could I have the quote on this?

Because if she is then maybe something about her surges (regrowth in particular) is a special case of why she, and not other shardblades, can possibly be revived. 

I was thinking that maybe the only reason that she would be able to come back is because there is a bondsmith once again. Because there had to be people that were this close to their shardblades, (talking to them, respecting them, etc.) But I think that the reason Maya can communicate with him is not only with his connection to the sword (we also see this kinda connection between Dalinar and Oathbringer) but also the fact that Dalinar just opened Honors perpendicularity. I say this because this is the only time we see Maya communicate to Adolin. So I think if she comes back it'll have to do with re-growth mixed with the bondsmith power.

Get me that quote if you can

Good points, and here is the WoB regarding Maya being Edgedancer

Kaladin al'Thor

I noticed my last time reading Words of Radiance that there were several times-- vines that were on Adolin's shardblade as he summoned it. So I was wondering if maybe the Radiant who used it had was an Edgedancer?

Brandon Sanderson

You are right.

Kaladin al'Thor

You mentioned before that it would be possible to revive a dead shard[blade], but it would be very difficult--

Brandon Sanderson

Very difficult.

Kaladin al'Thor

Like I think what you said is that it would have to be the same person that broke the bond?

Brandon Sanderson

That would be the-- Yeah.

Kaladin al'Thor

So if it was an Edgedancer's blade if he made those same oaths could potentially he…

Brandon Sanderson

That would most likely not be enough. Something else would have to happen. Good guess though.

1 minute ago, insert_anagram_here said:

I certainly imagine Stormfather saying no to that, but that's probably just me  :ph34r:

LOL, hey no worries, to each their own. 

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I wonder if Maya's recent proximity to Knights Radiant is a factor in developing a Nahel bond. Adolin has been hanging around Shallan and Kaladin, and his father and brother.  That's something a dead Shard wouldn't have experienced for a long, long time. Along with meeting Fused and Thunderclasts. Life could start feeling like something familiar under those circumstances.

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@Pathfinder I’m not gonna quote your entire post for brevity’s sake.

If we’re being literal here, Dalinar’s Unity moment was technically deus ex machina, since he was relying on the power of a Shard. :P

Seriously though, you do make a good point about the deus ex machina definition and denotation. I just think you have a very specific connotation of it, which is different from mine. But now that you’ve said this, I think I wouldn’t mind as much if Dalinar was involved in the revival of Maya. I still think it’d be more powerful if Adolin and Maya had to work on this alone, without the help Dalinar, though.

The one thing that I’m absolutely certain of is that if Maya is revived, it will be at least tangentially because of her bond with Adolin. I don’t think, even if Dalinar helps, that Maya can’t be revived without bonding Adolin.

EDIT: there’s a huge difference between can and can’t, autocorrect. <_<

Edited by StrikerEZ
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1 hour ago, CosmicSieve said:

I wonder if Maya's recent proximity to Knights Radiant is a factor in developing a Nahel bond. Adolin has been hanging around Shallan and Kaladin, and his father and brother.  That's something a dead Shard wouldn't have experienced for a long, long time. Along with meeting Fused and Thunderclasts. Life could start feeling like something familiar under those circumstances.

I suspect the thing that really spurred things on is them being in Shadesmar together, as that's the point where she started to show apparent improvement.

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6 minutes ago, CrazyRioter said:

I suspect the thing that really spurred things on is them being in Shadesmar together, as that's the point where she started to show apparent improvement.

Even that, I think, has more to do with the degree to which Adolin is personifying her than anything specifically special about Shadesmar. He's already personified his sword way more than the average swordsman, and seeing her in person form can only have enhanced his perception of her personhood

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43 minutes ago, Kon-Tiki said:

Even that, I think, has more to do with the degree to which Adolin is personifying her than anything specifically special about Shadesmar. He's already personified his sword way more than the average swordsman, and seeing her in person form can only have enhanced his perception of her personhood

That's certainly a good theory as to why it helped! Spren are defined by perceptions, so being seen as a person rather than just a sword could very well help her be a person again.

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59 minutes ago, Kon-Tiki said:

Even that, I think, has more to do with the degree to which Adolin is personifying her than anything specifically special about Shadesmar. He's already personified his sword way more than the average swordsman, and seeing her in person form can only have enhanced his perception of her personhood

Aye. There's that one moment there, when Adolin asks her what she thinks of all this. And after that she acted differently, not following him up from the shore, as a deadeye normally would, but staring at her feet as if... thinking?

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1 hour ago, StrikerEZ said:

@Pathfinder I’m not gonna quote your entire post for brevity’s sake.

If we’re being literal here, Dalinar’s Unity moment was technically deus ex machina, since he was relying on the power of a Shard. :P

Seriously though, you do make a good point about the deus ex machina definition and denotation. I just think you have a very specific connotation of it, which is different from mine. But now that you’ve said this, I think I wouldn’t mind as much if Dalinar was involved in the revival of Maya. I still think it’d be more powerful if Adolin and Maya had to work on this alone, without the help Dalinar, though.

The one thing that I’m absolutely certain of is that if Maya is revived, it will be at least tangentially because of her bond with Adolin. I don’t think, even if Dalinar helps, that Maya can’t be revived without bonding Adolin.

EDIT: there’s a huge difference between can and can’t, autocorrect. <_<

No worries. I always feel I only comment when I have something fresh to add. I respect that you prefer your version, and I personally prefer my version. The only thing additional is just to clarify, Adolin strengthening Connection of the faux bond with Maya would be unconnected with reviving her if Dalinar assisted. I think Adolin acting honorably and within the oaths of the order is a huge help because it (in my opinion) provides a structure or "scaffolding" for Dalinar to channel the raw investiture into. What I am saying is in my opinion neither could fully accomplish it alone. Adolin strengthening his Connection to Maya will take him only so far. Dalinar shoving investiture into a shardblade will do nothing except shove investiture into a shardblade. But together, with the stronger connection acting as a guide, for the infusion of investiture to regrow what was lost, to me would restore the bond and enable both to play a crucial role. It could be built upon and alluded to further as Adolin and Dainar interact. Just a random for instance could be Adolin training. After finding out about Evi's death, Adolin has been keeping his distance from Dalinar. Dalinar finds him, but Adolin ignores him or tries to leave. Dalinar grabs Adolin while the blade is still out, and Adolin and Dalinar suddenly hear Maya's voice urging them to talk. Both surprised, Adolin is able to get out of Dalinar's hands and they separate for a bit. They both think on this more with the occasional interaction. Then it happens again. Adolin still not ready to open up to his father but willing to try to figure out what is happening, Dalinar and Adolin begin working together while researching with Shallan, Jasnah and the Stormfather. Through working together they open up, talk, and resolve their issues with each other and resolve to restore Maya. If the stormfather ends up against it, then there is the scene I presented regarding Adolin. So I got a little more wordy than I intended. Basically all I wanted to say, is totally feel free to prefer a focus on Adolin and Maya alone. I just wanted to make clear that the theory I have in mind wouldn't take anything away from Adolin, nor his accomplishments. 

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My stance on all that is, that we don't have enough information about deadeyes, the gemstone bond and the relationship between deadeyes and humans to come to any fruitful conclusion right now. In addition to that, a lot of the things, that these theories stem from happened during the perpendicularity during which the realms all were much closer together, so we might only be observing anomalies.

There, of course, is nothing wrong with theorizing, but a lot is already being treated as fact.

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