The unmade, the sibling, and pre-shard spren

[WhiteEmporer]

*stormlight spoilers*

So one of the big things that stood out to me reading the Roshar intro in Arcanum Unbounded is that the spren predate the arrival of the shards. This changes the way I think about the spren. I'd thought they were all splinters that had split off of the shards, but now we know it's a bit more complicated.

So on to the theory--the unmade are massive spren that existed on roshar pre-shattering. Upon the arrival of Odium, they were corrupted and coopted his investiture. They were made, then they were unmade.
I also have similar thoughts about the sibling. Either he's some huge spren (the spren of the Rosharan continent, maybe?) or the same kind of spren that the unmade were.
Maybe...there were ten major spren (ten's a good number for Roshar). When Odium corrupted nine of them to make the Unmade, one escaped and became the Sibling.

This could either be way off, or something everyone's figured out already  Guess I'll find out. I'd love to hear what you think!

[Inky]

This is pretty plausible, although remember the sibling is a "they" and has no gender (Is that also important? Who knows)

[Eris]

This is a good theory and observation. It makes you wonder how intelligent spren are because they learnt how to bond with humans by watching the heralds do it (along with honour) and it was even stated that they did a better job at doing it compared to honour and the heralds. Also, were Void spren once normal spren who bonded with the Singers since they were the original people of the land or did they live in ignorance of the other?

[Turtle373]

Roshar was created by Adonalsium before Adonalsium was shattered, he created the Parshendi/listeners/whatever you want to call them, and the spren, those spren are referenced by Syl when she mentions the spren with four genders, I think it was in OB, and then Honor and Cultivation came and some spren were created maybe, not sure how it works maybe they were changed but Idk, by their shardic influence, then Odium came and more spren were created/changed from his influence, then humans came and a bunch of spren were created by their influence and tendency to personify things. Then honor splintered and that probably changed some things

I believe the sibling is another god spren, similar to the stormfather and the nightwatcher, though its unclear if it is related to Odium or a combination of Honor and Cultivation kind of like how the Surges are

[StrikerEZ]

10 minutes ago, Turtle373 said:

I believe the sibling is another god spren, similar to the stormfather and the nightwatcher, though its unclear if it is related to Odium or a combination of Honor and Cultivation kind of like how the Surges are

I think it’s most likely a combination of H&C. Why would a spren that is basically just a big Splinter of Odium bond a Radiant?

[Turtle373]

good point, plus that would make sense that stormfather would call it the sibling because its kind of like Honor is a "parent" to both

[CrazyRioter]

Yeah I am strongly of the opinion that the Sibling is a mix of Honor and Cultivation.

[twenty second of the sun]

That would make sense.

 

[WhiteEmporer]

On 1/12/2019 at 9:31 AM, WhiteEmporer said:

*stormlight spoilers*

So one of the big things that stood out to me reading the Roshar intro in Arcanum Unbounded is that the spren predate the arrival of the shards. This changes the way I think about the spren. I'd thought they were all splinters that had split off of the shards, but now we know it's a bit more complicated.

So on to the theory--the unmade are massive spren that existed on roshar pre-shattering. Upon the arrival of Odium, they were corrupted and coopted his investiture. They were made, then they were unmade.
I also have similar thoughts about the sibling. Either he's some huge spren (the spren of the Rosharan continent, maybe?) or the same kind of spren that the unmade were.
Maybe...there were ten major spren (ten's a good number for Roshar). When Odium corrupted nine of them to make the Unmade, one escaped and became the Sibling.

This could either be way off, or something everyone's figured out already  Guess I'll find out. I'd love to hear what you think!

So, revised theory.

1. the 10 essences go beyond Vorin theology and are an essential part of Roshar, either by Adonalsium's design, or through the perception of the planet's original inhabitants (likely singers). Being thought of for untold millenia, they developed spren associated with them. These are the "10 massive spren" from my original theory. 

2. As per my orignal theory, 9 of these were corrupted by Odium. The tenth? Not sure, but I have an idea or two. We'll get to that.

3. .The sibling is the spren of Roshar. The continent, also being percieved and thought of for eons, would develop a prescence in the cognitive realm. In this way the Bondsmith spren are perfectly balanced: one for Honor (Stormfather), one for Cultivation (Nightwatcher), and one representing Roshar itself.

4. The heralds bonded the spren of the 10 essences. Not so sure about this one, but it's inspired by a theory posted by @Bort (link below). You should check it out; it's fascinating.

He theorizes that the unmade are a result of the heralds breaking on Braize. This thread shows a lot of parallels between certain unmade and certain heralds. But what if instead, they are spren that were bonded to the heralds? This would be the source of their power, and the process that the spren would later imitate. It would explain the parallels between heralds and unmade in @Bort's theory. It would also explain why there are only nine unmade. Taln never broke the Oathpact, and so his spren is still his (he's just too crazy to use it). Perhaps the trauma of the broken oaths on these spren is what allowed Odium to infect and "unmake" them.

Biggest problem I see with item #4 is that this would make the honorblades something like dead shardblades, but more vast. How could Nale wield his? Why don't they scream? How do the unmade move around if their blade is summoned? So it might not quite work. But there might be something to it.

My main theory (#1-3) seems pretty free from problems. I'm sure my fellow Sharders can think of some, though 

 

[Scion of the Mists]

3 hours ago, WhiteEmporer said:

3. .The sibling is the spren of Roshar. The continent, also being percieved and thought of for eons, would develop a prescence in the cognitive realm. In this way the Bondsmith spren are perfectly balanced: one for Honor (Stormfather), one for Cultivation (Nightwatcher), and one representing Roshar itself.

I like the symmetry of the Bondsmith spren being of Honor, of Cultivation, of the planet itself.  

 

3 hours ago, WhiteEmporer said:

But what if instead, they are spren that were bonded to the heralds? This would be the source of their power, and the process that the spren would later imitate.

The Heralds' powers came from the Honorblades, which provided a direct access to Honor's Investiture.  They did not bond spren.  The Radiant spren imitated the Honorblades when they later developed the Nahel bond (which is why the "default" shape of a Deadeye is a sword).  

[WhiteEmporer]

17 hours ago, Scion of the Mists said:

The Heralds' powers came from the Honorblades, which provided a direct access to Honor's Investiture.  They did not bond spren.  The Radiant spren imitated the Honorblades when they later developed the Nahel bond (which is why the "default" shape of a Deadeye is a sword).  

The idea was that the honorblades were a manifestation of the siren bond, just like radiant spren (which would be where the radiant spren got the idea). However, I'm already aware there are a lot of problems with that. But bad ideas are the steps one takes to get to a good one, so maybe it will lead somewhere.

 

17 hours ago, Scion of the Mists said:

I like the symmetry of the Bondsmith spren being of Honor, of Cultivation, of the planet itself.  

Me too! This would also be that much more reason why Rlain should bond the Sibling. Who better to bond the spren of Roshar than one of Roshar's original inhabitants?

One thought: if this is true, would the Sibling be the spren of the planet Roshar or just the Rosharan continent? The actual continent might be more distinctly perceived by Rosharans, and have a better chance of forming a spren.

[Karger]

22 hours ago, WhiteEmporer said:

He theorizes that the unmade are a result of the heralds breaking on Braize. This thread shows a lot of parallels between certain unmade and certain heralds. But what if instead, they are spren that were bonded to the heralds? This would be the source of their power, and the process that the spren would later imitate. It would explain the parallels between heralds and unmade in @Bort's theory. It would also explain why there are only nine unmade. Taln never broke the Oathpact, and so his spren is still his (he's just too crazy to use it). Perhaps the trauma of the broken oaths on these spren is what allowed Odium to infect and "unmake" them.

I don't think so as the Heralds themselves sometimes reference the unmade like in Jeserian's rant in Dalinar's flashback.  I like your theory and I think I want to take it a step further.  What if the tower was realy intended to protect the sibling and it withdrew to protect itself once the tower's protections began to fail to avoid a similar fate to the other unmade?  We know that the tower is supposed to be immune/protected to the voidbringers and that the sibling does not leave there.  We also know that they tower's protections eventually began to fail and the sibling began to withdraw.  I am wrong in suspecting a correlation?