Invocation

Anti-Moash Gang

52 posts in this topic

11 hours ago, Invocation said:

That's an insult to Dalinar. At least Dalinar was a competent fighter.

Moash did just fine against Ehlokar ,the child kicker.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, twenty second of the sun said:

Moash did just fine against Ehlokar ,the child kicker.

He stabbed him in the back while he was distracted and already pretty much on the ground.

That's not "doing just fine," that's being a coward and taking the easy way out because you know you won't make it any other way.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, Invocation said:

He stabbed him in the back while he was distracted and already pretty much on the ground.

That's not "doing just fine," that's being a coward and taking the easy way out because you know you won't make it any other way.

(I would like to preface by saying I don't view moash as any sort of redeemable character) We know moash loses in a fight with Kaladin, we also know he is supposedly the fastest learner with the spear, as shown when he is the first person on the book to kill a fused, I don't disagree with moash being a coward ,I believe he is however more battle competent than you are letting on.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, twenty second of the sun said:

(I would like to preface by saying I don't view moash as any sort of redeemable character) We know moash loses in a fight with Kaladin, we also know he is supposedly the fastest learner with the spear, as shown when he is the first person on the book to kill a fused, I don't disagree with moash being a coward ,I believe he is however more battle competent than you are letting on.

He can kill someone who is both overconfident and not expecting an actual fight (the Fused) or someone who is completely overwhelmed in the heat of a chaotic battle (Elhokar) and while he might not be a coward in the traditional sense, he does run away from his problems, focusing on making it someone else's fault, someone else to blame, and he does stab a guy in the back, then stabs a drunk madman. He bends to the next force that comes by that gives him an ounce of absolvement for the guilt he feels over his choices and makes him feel like everything that happened wasn't his fault, all with little prompting, committing fully the instant he gets a little taste of power again.

We can agree, however, that Moash is not redeemable. Szeth was one thing (and even he was borderline unredeemable) but Moash is all the way gone.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Invocation said:

He can kill someone who is both overconfident and not expecting an actual fight (the Fused) or someone who is completely overwhelmed in the heat of a chaotic battle (Elhokar) and while he might not be a coward in the traditional sense, he does run away from his problems, focusing on making it someone else's fault, someone else to blame, and he does stab a guy in the back, then stabs a drunk madman. He bends to the next force that comes by that gives him an ounce of absolvement for the guilt he feels over his choices and makes him feel like everything that happened wasn't his fault, all with little prompting, committing fully the instant he gets a little taste of power again.

We can agree, however, that Moash is not redeemable. Szeth was one thing (and even he was borderline unredeemable) but Moash is all the way gone.

I agree with you on moash being a coward and not deserving of a capitalized name,And when I said he was the opposite of Dalinar I meant that he has completley subscribed to Odium's philosophy .

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

1 minute ago, twenty second of the sun said:

I agree with you on moash being a coward and not deserving of a capitalized name,And when I said he was the opposite of Dalinar I meant that he has completley subscribed to Odium's philosophy .

Yeah, I can see that bit, but he's in no way Dalinar's opposite on the battlefield, just for the record, and he probably never will be now that the Thrill is locked up.

Off the battlefield is a different matter, as you are saying.

Edited by Invocation
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What kills me most about Moash is that he is not even self questioning.  Even at all time low levels for Dalinar he still tried to understand and justify his actions he still cared enough to abide by his principles as he understood them even if it caused him pain.  Moash has not a moral fiber in his body.  He is morally an infant who kills people in what is the adult equivalent of a tantrum.  The only reason that he does feels unhappy right now is because his father figure (Kaladin) who he does admire happens to be disappointed in him not because he feels he violated any understanding of human decency.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Karger said:

What kills me most about Moash is that he is not even self questioning.  Even at all time low levels for Dalinar he still tried to understand and justify his actions he still cared enough to abide by his principles as he understood them even if it caused him pain.  Moash has not a moral fiber in his body.  He is morally an infant who kills people in what is the adult equivalent of a tantrum.  The only reason that he does feels unhappy right now is because his father figure (Kaladin) who he does admire happens to be disappointed in him not because he feels he violated any understanding of human decency.

He doesn't even feel bad about Kaladin anymore, not since the end of OB.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

*enters HQ*

*stabs leader with spear*

*leaves*

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Jaywalk said:

*enters HQ*

*stabs leader with spear*

*leaves*

*spear fails to do anything due to immortality granted by being an embodiment of hatred*

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

        MOASH! DID! NOTHING! WRONG!!!!!!!!!! WHO HERE WOULD HAVE REACTED DIFFERENTLY THEN HE DID? 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, ShardShaper said:

        MOASH! DID! NOTHING! WRONG!!!!!!!!!! WHO HERE WOULD HAVE REACTED DIFFERENTLY THEN HE DID? 

Moash did everything wrong. He is a petty, cowardly man that doesn't know how to let go of a grudge and defaults to his own choices being someone else's fault like he has no autonomy of action or thought. He willfully disregarded the fact that people can change and decided that he should be allowed to murder the king to satisfy his own grudge. That way of thinking would be just fine if the incident was more recent or he was able to accept that things have changed or he was willing to give up the assassination portion and just quietly hate Elhokar while still performing his duty, but he instead chose to betray Kaladin and all of Bridge Four for a years-old grudge against a man that wasn't even the primary offender (really, he should have been trying to kill Roshone, if anyone), then betray the humans of Roshar by siding with forces attempting to destroy them as a way to offset some of the guilt he feels for his choices.

I have no pity in my heart for this pathetic excuse for a man, disagree his choices, and think he needs to grow up.

Any person with sense would have reacted differently.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So you would have what? Let the man who murdered your only family live on in happiness?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, ShardShaper said:

So you would have what? Let the man who murdered your only family live on in happiness?

Maybe not murder him in front of his only son, perpetuating the chain of pain and possibly instilling in the child a desire for the same bloody revenge you just exacted? 

Also, that's kind of a false binary. There are many, many, many alternatives in between "kill Elhokar in front of his kid" and "let Elhokar live the happy life you never got to have." 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, it was in the heat of battle. I'm not saying it was smart but there's no reason he should get all this hate. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, ShardShaper said:

Well, it was in the heat of battle. I'm not saying it was smart but there's no reason he should get all this hate. 

He could have used the distraction of battle to drag Elhokar out of the room and kill him there, or toss him to enemy troops, or what have you. Or he could have taken him prisoner. Or delivered a The Reason You Suck Speech followed by "And that's why I'm going to spare you, because I don't want to be to your son as you were to me." 

And it's not just him killing Elhokar that's made so many people dislike him. There's also the fact all of his actions have been motivated by selfishness, up to and including him joining the Voidbringers at the end. Not to mention he just stood there while a fellow slave was beaten within an inch of his life and later had the audacity to see himself as a brave revolutionary. Kaladin would've intervened, even if it meant he was the one beaten nearly to death, just saying. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, ShardShaper said:

So you would have what? Let the man who murdered your only family live on in happiness?

In happiness, no. Murder the guy? Also no. There are steps between that!

I'd cause a bit of a ruckus, which the Alethi would eat up, given how little some of the other highprinces care for him or for being ruled by a king at all, instead of a being a generally selfish person that continues the cycle that got him in that situation in the first place.

Edited by Invocation
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But you're continuing that very hate cycle with every Anti-Moash post.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I Agree with invocation and TwiLyghtSansSparkles, with that added point that I'm pretty sure that brandon agrees as well. 

I was browsing arcanum and came across this Wob:

Quote

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

What was your motivation for killing Elhokar and simultaneously ripping my heart out?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

So, it was... I never feel like I'm killing characters, I'm writing characters take risks and I'm writing other characters have agency to do the things they're doing in the books. That whole plot cycle was less me killing someone off and more me letting Moash go down the dark path that he have been demanding that he go down.

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

Okay, but you realize half the fandom... practically all the fandom practically wants him dead now.

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Yes, yes. Well, they should! He made a very, very bad decision, and he deserves everything that the fandom is throwing at him.

FanX Spring 2019 (April 19, 2019)

 

 
2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, ShardShaper said:

But you're continuing that very hate cycle with every Anti-Moash post.

I'm not a character in the book. Moash is. 

I also do not actively attempt to sway people's opinions on Moash, only defending my own stance. 

Also, Brandon somewhat agrees.

Quote

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

What was your motivation for killing Elhokar and simultaneously ripping my heart out?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

So, it was... I never feel like I'm killing characters, I'm writing characters take risks and I'm writing other characters have agency to do the things they're doing in the books. That whole plot cycle was less me killing someone off and more me letting Moash go down the dark path that he have been demanding that he go down.

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

Okay, but you realize half the fandom... practically all the fandom practically wants him dead now.

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Yes, yes. Well, they should! He made a very, very bad decision, and he deserves everything that the fandom is throwing at him.

FanX Spring 2019 (April 19, 2019)

Edit: STORM IT @MacThorstenson YOU BEAT ME TO THE WOB

Edited by Invocation
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, MacThorstenson said:

:ph34r:

>:(

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Invocation said:

I'm not a character in the book. Moash is. 

I also do not actively attempt to sway people's opinions on Moash, only defending my own stance. 

Also, Brandon somewhat agrees.

 

So? You're your own person.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, ShardShaper said:

So? You're your own person.

Exactly, but I'm not doing the disapproving-of-Moash equivalent of stabbing someone's father in front of them to satisfy petty, somewhat misguided, revenge by attempting to change what other people think of Moash. 

I have my thoughts, and I defend them, but I don't tell people who are trying to read the series for the first time to hate Moash, and I have no issue with those who like Moash. I just personally don't.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Invocation said:

Stabbing someone's father in front of them to satisfy petty, somewhat misguided, revenge

Um... Speaking of petty...

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.