Sunmaker's shardblade

[Blessed peace]

So there is this description of Oathbringer,

Quote

The blade is six feet long, slightly curved and a handspan wide. It has wavelike serrations near the hilt, and curved like a fisherman's hook near the tip.

So most of the time we immediately think that the blade curves twords the user, but what say you about a blade that curves away from the user? (Like dacian falx).

As an aside I'll mention, that such blade design could be very useful in penetrating Parshendi carapace, way more then straight blades.

[Kon-Tiki]

You double posted an entire thread somehow!

In any case, the penetration factor of a shardblade is probably irrelevant. It already slices through stone just fine. And since the carapace is technically part of their body, the Shardblade probably just travels right through it the first time same as any other living organic material. I'd guess that the curves, serrations, and hook are purely ornamental

[Blessed peace]

On a shardblade you are absolutely right, shape and Design don't matter. but isn't the shape somehow correlate to the spren and radiant personalities and vision of what it should look like. 

The second section was about why don't alethi lighteyes deploy such design.

[Alderant]

17 minutes ago, Blessed peace said:

On a shardblade you are absolutely right, shape and Design don't matter. but isn't the shape somehow correlate to the spren and radiant personalities and vision of what it should look like. 

The second section was about why don't alethi lighteyes deploy such design.

Well, shape does matter to a degree, since Syl changes shape to match function, Pattern can dull his edge, and Wyndle manifests as a staff without cutting capability.

That said, consider three possibilities with regards to why the Alethi didn't implement new methods: 1) The Alethi are militarily arrogant and wouldn't change their fighting if they thought they were superior (which they did), 2) If all your blacksmiths are familiar with one design, having them all suddenly switch to a different design is both cost-inhibitive and time consuming, and 3) such ornamentations like hooks and reverse curving would require learning an entirely new fighting style. Alethi have been training in one way for millennia--a backwards curved sword and a hooked blade aren't swung the same way as a straight sword, nor do they have the same functionality.

[Kon-Tiki]

3 minutes ago, Alderant said:

That said, consider three possibilities with regards to why the Alethi didn't implement new methods: 1) The Alethi are militarily arrogant and wouldn't change their fighting if they thought they were superior (which they did)

We do see examples of the Alethi changing tactics, both in Dalinar flashbacks and (to a lesser extent) in the modern timeline. Sadeas' bridge crews are actually an example of this. The way Elhokar talks about them indicates that they are a new tactical choice, and as they show acceptance the other highprinces start taking them up over the course of WoK and WoR.

If I had to guess, I think its entirely possible that the Alethi just didn't have the skill/techniques in place to make blades like the OP described. Smithing is an incredibly complicated art, and while we don't think about it much now, the metals the Greeks  used as opposed to medieval metals were very different and differently treated. Jasnah points out that access to soulcasting retarded the ancients' advancement in metalworking, and I see no reason to disbelieve that continued access to soulcasting didn't offer shortcuts past technologies/techniques that might otherwise have been developed post-Recreance.

[Alderant]

Just now, Kon-Tiki said:

We do see examples of the Alethi changing tactics, both in Dalinar flashbacks and (to a lesser extent) in the modern timeline. Sadeas' bridge crews are actually an example of this.

This was also motivated less by tactics and more by greed, though. The Alethi used bridgecrews because they were fast and relatively cheap, reoutfitting and training an army would have been infinitely more expensive (which is also why Sadeas said he didn't armor the bridgemen).

But your point about the smithing is accurate, I think. I forgot about that bit from Jasnah.

[Kon-Tiki]

31 minutes ago, Alderant said:

This was also motivated less by tactics and more by greed, though. The Alethi used bridgecrews because they were fast and relatively cheap, reoutfitting and training an army would have been infinitely more expensive (which is also why Sadeas said he didn't armor the bridgemen).

But your point about the smithing is accurate, I think. I forgot about that bit from Jasnah.

There are examples in history and literature of militaries holding to outdated tactics and strategies through strength of tradition and some amount of arrogance. But the Alethi, to whom war is an art and a competition, are always looking not only to outplay the Parshendi but each other. I don't see that there's any evidence of the Alethi being to arrogant to adapt to a new technology or tactic. I think the opposite is true: they'll do whatever it takes to get an edge over the other guy in combat.

[Alderant]

1 minute ago, Kon-Tiki said:

There are examples in history and literature of militaries holding to outdated tactics and strategies through strength of tradition and some amount of arrogance. But the Alethi, to whom war is an art and a competition, are always looking not only to outplay the Parshendi but each other. I don't see that there's any evidence of the Alethi being to arrogant to adapt to a new technology or tactic. I think the opposite is true: they'll do whatever it takes to get an edge over the other guy in combat.

I'm not actually disagreeing with you here, I was just saying that three ideas came to mind as to why they didn't. They're not all inclusive or exclusive, just separate concise ideas I had.

[Blessed peace]

Might i remind you that humanity first wars were against carapace covered parshendi.

So it is rather plausible that they used that kind of blades.

[Alderant]

19 minutes ago, Blessed peace said:

Might i remind you that humanity first wars were against carapace covered parshendi.

So it is rather plausible that they used that kind of blades.

Well, they used spears and lances, which covers the same idea (puncturing weapons) but at significantly lower mass-production costs.

But like I said, I'm not trying to argue points here, I was just throwing out ideas. Feel free to disagree with me!

Edited January 8, 2019 by Alderant

[king of nowhere]

Thinking about spears and swords, spears are better weapons to fight in formation, as you can take advantage of reach or make a spear wall. swords are more versatile as individual weapon, and especially they are easier to carry around in your everyday life, but the spear has the advantage in a fight (again, reach).

So it's quite peculiar that the alethi consider the sword a more noble weapon. although it works because they cannot restrict the use of the better weapon to the elite.

[Blessed peace]

The lighteyes are mimicking the radiants, the KR used swords so they use swords. And you're not always im formation.

[Dalakaar]

2 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

So it's quite peculiar that the alethi consider the sword a more noble weapon. although it works because they cannot restrict the use of the better weapon to the elite.

I don't find it too peculiar; I'd liken it to the difference between a duelist and a soldier. A soldier is a profession of the many, a duelist is a singular spectacle. (And the Alethi love their duels.)

[Elend Venture]

On 1/8/2019 at 8:44 AM, Kon-Tiki said:

You double posted an entire thread somehow!

In any case, the penetration factor of a shardblade is probably irrelevant. It already slices through stone just fine. And since the carapace is technically part of their body, the Shardblade probably just travels right through it the first time same as any other living organic material. I'd guess that the curves, serrations, and hook are purely ornamentaI.

However if you attacked a fellow waering shardplate it would still be a force multiplyer and would all be focused on one point. The books are based on physics so it probably would be more dangerous.

Edited January 19, 2019 by ElendVenture

[+Invocation]

2 minutes ago, ElendVenture said:

But shardplate on the other hand... That would still be a force multiplyer and would all be focused on one point. The books are based loosley on physics so it probably would.

It's not so loose with the physics as you think, Roshar just has a different gravity, ecology, and atmosphere than earth. Gravity is 70% cosmere standard and the planet is just under 90% cosmere standard, leading to a fair bit higher amounts of oxygen, plus is why everyone is so storming tall there.

The multiplier is important, too, yes, but that pales to swords that sever souls of their victims. Plus, if you lose a piece of Plate, you can hurt yourself badly trying to punch if it's an arm section, to the point of breaking your own forearm if you aren't careful.

[Elend Venture]

1 minute ago, Invocation said:

It's not so loose with the physics as you think, Roshar just has a different gravity, ecology, and atmosphere than earth. Gravity is 70% cosmere standard and the planet is just under 90% cosmere standard, leading to a fair bit higher amounts of oxygen, plus is why everyone is so storming tall there.

The multiplier is important, too, yes, but that pales to swords that sever souls of their victims. Plus, if you lose a piece of Plate, you can hurt yourself badly trying to punch if it's an arm section, to the point of breaking your own forearm if you aren't careful.

I was not specific. I meant that Oathbringer might damage shardplate more having all the force nconcentrated on one point. I will go edit and make it somewhat clerer.

[+Invocation]

Just now, ElendVenture said:

I was not specific. I meant that Oathbringer might damage shardplate more having all the force nconcentrated on one point. I will go edit and make it somewhat clerer.

Yes, my bad, I didn't understand.

All the force being concentrated at one point might be useful, but I think the hook would be better used to disorient people by shoving it around their arm and whipping them around. Besides, if you want all the force in one place, might as well just use one of the giant hammers they let people with Plate but no Blade use. Seems to do the job of breaking other Plate quite well, considering it takes someone in Plate to even be able to lift one most of the time.

[Elend Venture]

1 minute ago, Invocation said:

Yes, my bad, I didn't understand.

All the force being concentrated at one point might be useful, but I think the hook would be better used to disorient people by shoving it around their arm and whipping them around. Besides, if you want all the force in one place, might as well just use one of the giant hammers they let people with Plate but no Blade use. Seems to do the job of breaking other Plate quite well, considering it takes someone in Plate to even be able to lift one most of the time.

No problem, I was being too hasty.

     I could see some advantage on having the shard edge + the concentrated point. Check out a kama vs armor test.  Thatway you could do flamestance, windstance, etc. as well as some of the "shardhammer" based attacks.

[+Invocation]

Just now, ElendVenture said:

     I could see some advantage on having the shard edge + the concentrated point. Check out a kama vs armor test.  Thatway you could do flamestance, windstance, etc. as well as some of the "shardhammer" based attacks.

Fair. Imagine if you were a Radiant, though, and could use a small Shardblade for stances and also a hammer for when you need raw brute force.

[Elend Venture]

7 minutes ago, Invocation said:

Fair. Imagine if you were a Radiant, though, and could use a small Shardblade for stances and also a hammer for when you need raw brute force.

Yeah, Radiants are almost as storming overpowered as the storming stormfather himself.

 

Hyperbole detected. But still, they are very powerful.

Edited January 19, 2019 by ElendVenture

[+Invocation]

Just now, ElendVenture said:

Yeah, Radiants are almost storming overpowered as the storming stormfather himself.

 

Hyperbole detected. But still, they are very powerful.

Especially powerful if the theory that, much like living Shardblades are magnitudes better than dead ones, actively bonded Plate provides that much more of a boost than Plate that we're used to, is true.

I kind of hope it is and we get to see Kaladin Lashing drop-kick someone again, but in full Plate this time.

[Elend Venture]

2 minutes ago, Invocation said:

Especially powerful if the theory that, much like living Shardblades are magnitudes better than dead ones, actively bonded Plate provides that much more of a boost than Plate that we're used to, is true.

I kind of hope it is and we get to see Kaladin Lashing drop-kick someone again, but in full Plate this time.

#fullplatekaladindropkick Storming awesome.

[+Invocation]

9 minutes ago, ElendVenture said:

#fullplatekaladindropkick Storming awesome.

Full Plate Kaladin dropkick - now with extra Lashings and a foot-mounted Shardblade. Run in terror, all ye enemies.

SHARDCLEATS

Edited January 19, 2019 by Invocation

[Kon-Tiki]

Shardplate behaves very strangely for a metal at roughly standard temperature and pressure. It never dents or tears, but it does crack and shatter. Normally metals do that only under extreme circumstances found in industrial settings. I don't know that comparing traditional armor puncturing techniques to what would be good for cracking Shardplate is particularly helpful.

[+Invocation]

5 minutes ago, Kon-Tiki said:

Shardplate behaves very strangely for a metal at roughly standard temperature and pressure. It never dents or tears, but it does crack and shatter. Normally metals do that only under extreme circumstances found in industrial settings

Highly Invested object behave strangely. Plate is very highly Invested, which contributes to the oddness.