the unsinging singer

Shardblades

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With advances in technology on roshar will spren turn into something like a shardgun? Or will they still turn into melee weapons?

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I think Spren can manifest as a single, solid piece of metal.  So they'd be able to turn into most of a gun?  I'm picturing a spren forming only the gun's barrel and stock out of metal, which formed around whatever cartridge the radiant is using, and then the radiant using Soul Casting to ignite the charge.  The spren then puffs back into their normal form, reforms another "gun" around a new cartridge, and repeats the process.  

Pros:  So far as we've seen, Shardblades are nigh unbreakable.  So the charge used for the bullet could be quite large with a very small gun.  Think elephant gun firepower in a pistol (broken wrist can be healed by stormlight). 

Cons:   It would need soulcasting to work, since there can't be any moving pieces.  

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First of all, why guns? Ugh we don't need those kind of weapons - they are not meant for killing humans but giant stone monsters.

If they would ever need that kind of stuff just get a few stormbreakers and windrunners together and lash some rocks onto something

Also I guess the "one solid piece thing" a spren could change into is dependant on the oaths - because...

Well try to move in an armor that is one solid piece... and what else except a spren could change into the armor that magically drops the visor and deflects almost everything..? :P

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39 minutes ago, Void89 said:

Well try to move in an armor that is one solid piece... and what else except a spren could change into the armor that magically drops the visor and deflects almost everything..? :P

I'm still a subscriber to the theory that Plate is made of a bunch of little "lesser" spren, the mindless ones, thus circumventing that restriction.

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New thought, against shardplate a gun would be insanely OP.  Shardplate can shatter if you hit it hard enough with something.  Swords, axes, rocks, anything.  The force applied by a bullet to a single section of shardplate would annihilate that piece.  It would be the same revolution that occured in Europe when gun powder was introduced and suddenly knights became irrelevant.  

Imagine:  

Shardbearer:  Behold my shiny, awesome armo...

Darkeye with a shotgun:  *BOOM*

Chestpiece shatters.  Darkeye wins!

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Just now, Solomonster said:

New thought, against shardplate a gun would be insanely OP.  Shardplate can shatter if you hit it hard enough with something.  Swords, axes, rocks, anything.  The force applied by a bullet to a single section of shardplate would annihilate that piece.  It would be the same revolution that occured in Europe when gun powder was introduced and suddenly knights became irrelevant.  

Imagine:  

Shardbearer:  Behold my shiny, awesome armo...

Darkeye with a shotgun:  *BOOM*

Chestpiece shatters.  Darkeye wins!

Omg that's a lol but I don't think guns exist in this world. There technology is medieval, swords, knives, axes 

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Just now, Eris said:

Omg that's a lol but I don't think guns exist in this world. There technology is medieval, swords, knives, axes 

Agreed, but if the technology suddenly came around then shardplate would become a LOT less relevant in the world.  Not completely irrelevent, but a lot less.  

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6 minutes ago, Solomonster said:

Agreed, but if the technology suddenly came around then shardplate would become a LOT less relevant in the world.  Not completely irrelevent, but a lot less.  

They can barely figure out how to make things float or use efficient messaging technology so gun making is a very low possibility unless they figure it out during the gap  

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Shard laser/plasma/arc gun. Just saying.

Warbreaker and Mistborn Spoilers

Spoiler

Awakened guns could be a thing as well. Imagine if Wax somehow got Vindication awakened.

 

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2 minutes ago, SwordNimiForPresident said:

Shard laser/plasma/arc gun. Just saying.

Warbreaker and Mistborn Spoilers

  Reveal hidden contents

Awakened guns could be a thing as well. Imagine if Wax somehow got Vindication awakened.

 

I guess what I'm saying is, it isn't impossible but highly unlikely unless advancement in technology during the gap, leads to its conception

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6 minutes ago, Eris said:

I guess what I'm saying is, it isn't impossible but highly unlikely unless advancement in technology during the gap, leads to its conception

They have open access to the Cognitive Realm now so outside influence is a possibility. Several of the Radiants have interacted with world hoppers now as well so I expect some crossover going forward. Zahel and Azure feel more like major plot points than easter eggs. They're either there to introduce the Cosmere at large to Roshar or they are a vehicle to put Nightblood in Dalinar's hands (head cannon).

Edited by SwordNimiForPresident
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2 minutes ago, SwordNimiForPresident said:

They have open access to the Cognitive Realm now so outside influence is a possibility.

True but Navani is too busy building flying objects. They probably wouldn't see the need for guns yet because to them it might seem like the bow and arrow but more hassle to make

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8 minutes ago, Eris said:

True but Navani is too busy building flying objects. They probably wouldn't see the need for guns yet because to them it might seem like the bow and arrow but more hassle to make

Perhaps Navani will create a fabrial that operates similarly to a gun or crossbow. There's probably a bunch of ways you could use a trapped spren to launch a projectile.

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Just now, SwordNimiForPresident said:

Perhaps Navani will create a fabrial that operates similarly to a gun or crossbow. There's probably a bunch of ways you could use a trapped spren to launch a projectile.

Wait wasn't there a mention of a crossbow in OB? Or am I mistaking it for something else I read?

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3 minutes ago, Eris said:

Wait wasn't there a mention of a crossbow in OB? Or am I mistaking it for something else I read?

They do not have crossbows that we've seen, and Amaram is even confused when someone has a blowgun, suggesting that they don't even have those.

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11 minutes ago, Invocation said:

They do not have crossbows that we've seen, and Amaram is even confused when someone has a blowgun, suggesting that they don't even have those.

If I had to put a date on their tech level it would probably fall between the fall of  Rome and Charlemagne. At least in terms of Military tech. Everything else seems like early Renaissance.

Edited by SwordNimiForPresident
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24 minutes ago, Invocation said:

They do not have crossbows that we've seen, and Amaram is even confused when someone has a blowgun, suggesting that they don't even have those.

[OB Spoiler tag, but it's not that big a spoiler]

Spoiler

There are crossbowlike devices in OB. They are in "The Rift" chapter, I forget the exact part but "crossbowlike devices" is verbatim. Also I think there are just crossbows in the book as well but that's IIRC.

 

Edited by Dalakaar
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7 minutes ago, Dalakaar said:

[OB Spoiler tag, but it's not that big a spoiler]

  Reveal hidden contents

There are crossbowlike devices in OB. They are in "The Rift" chapter, I forget the exact part but "crossbowlike devices" is verbatim. Also I think there are just crossbows in the book as well but that's IIRC.

 

Storms, you're right. Good catch. The woman they were stealing food from had guards with some too, because they nailed Shallan with a bolt. I forgot about those parts.

Edited by Invocation
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5 minutes ago, Dalakaar said:

[OB Spoiler tag, but it's not that big a spoiler]

  Hide contents

There are crossbowlike devices in OB. They are in "The Rift" chapter, I forget the exact part but "crossbowlike devices" is verbatim. Also I think there are just crossbows in the book as well but that's IIRC.

 

Good catch, I had completely forgotten about that. I guess that puts their military tech at late medieval which would be right around the time that cannons started being developed. Cannon fabrials? Head cannon fabrials..

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Just now, SwordNimiForPresident said:

Good catch, I had completely forgotten about that. I guess that puts their military tech at late medieval which would be right around the time that cannons started being developed. Cannon fabrials? Head cannon fabrials..

Launches head through a cannon... I think rocks are better (sorry I had to do it)

But yeah just due to the nature of the books, guns don't seem to be happening at least not an individual gun. Swords are better anyway

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I'm pretty sure Brandon mentioned that spren will only be used via fabrials, not from the higher spren. I know he plans to use the Lightweaver fabrials to make a laser gun. That should be cool. 

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Well, Shardplate is magical, so it's pieces might act as one whole. Otherwise a spear or a powerful crossbow bolt would be pretty much as effective as a bullet, because they can also apply a lot of force to a small area. Especially stabbing would be a great dueling tactic then

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15 hours ago, Invocation said:

They do not have crossbows that we've seen, and Amaram is even confused when someone has a blowgun, suggesting that they don't even have those.

Rysn uses a crossbow to kill the Fused that invades the Thaylen Gemstone Reserve.

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I’m surprised nobody’s mentioned that Roshar’s atmosphere has a high oxygen content.  So gunpowder?  Bad idea.  It would be much more explosive than on earth like planets, and dangerous to control.  Guns powered by gravitational surges, I could see though.

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47 minutes ago, ILuvHats said:

I’m surprised nobody’s mentioned that Roshar’s atmosphere has a high oxygen content.  So gunpowder?  Bad idea.  It would be much more explosive than on earth like planets, and dangerous to control.  Guns powered by gravitational surges, I could see though.

Just use a relatively lower grain count. It wouldn't be any more difficult to control, I wouldn't say, you'd just have to account for it. And getting a small bit of metal to bullet speeds with gravitational acceleration would require boatloads of stormlight (due to many many lashings/bullet), especially since one lashing is ~7m/s^2, not 10m/s^2 like on Earth

 

EDIT: For clarity's sake, Rosharan gravity is .7 Earth gravity, so the acceleration caused by that gravity is proportionally lower

Edited by Kon-Tiki
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