Jasnah's Fourth Oath

[Watchcry]

Yes it was a writing error. 

[Fanghur Rahl]

On 2019-01-04 at 8:49 AM, Solomonster said:

Two event to consider together:

1) Jasnah discovered that Renarin's spren is corrupted by Sja-anat.  She initially resolves to kill him then changes her mind and chooses compassion.  Her spren indicates that this is right.

2) During the final battle of Oathbringer, Adolin sees men being tossed out of building with great force.  When he goes to investigate, he finds Jasnah surrounded by glowing geometric shapes.  The current theory is that this is Jasnah dismissing her Shardplate, which I am inclined to agree with.  

When taken together, it seems to me that Jasnah swore her fourth Oath soon after sparing Renarin.  While it is possible that Jasnah had obtained Shardplate prior to this, the scene with Renarin is just too much of a game-changing decision on Jasnah's part for me to think that there wasn't an oath involved.  This also would imply that the Elsecaller fourth Oath revolves around not letting logic rule 100% of the time. 

Furthermore, it also fits Jasnah's personality.  With Kaladin, the two oaths we've seen have been sworn in the heat of the moment (I'm about to die, so I'm going to be dramatic and swear another oath and EXPLODE WITH POWER!).  With Jasnah, she makes the right decision (spares Renarin), ponders on it while she's traveling to the building mentioned above, swears the oath, then uses her shiny new Shardplate to own these voidspren corrupted noobs.  Any thoughts?

 

I actually really like this idea. Because we kind of get the impression that Elsecallers are generally supposed to be the most ‘objective’ and analytical of the orders, and a very common trope in fiction is that the more analytical someone is, the less ‘human’ they become (DeVoe on The Flash is probably the best example), which is always something I disliked as I think it’s a hasty generalization at best. So I think it would be great if the Elsecallers averted this trope.

Maybe it would be something like “I will not allow my logic to drive me to abandon my compassion”?

[BrightnessSamantha]

On 1/4/2019 at 7:49 AM, Solomonster said:

Two event to consider together:

1) Jasnah discovered that Renarin's spren is corrupted by Sja-anat.  She initially resolves to kill him then changes her mind and chooses compassion.  Her spren indicates that this is right.

2) During the final battle of Oathbringer, Adolin sees men being tossed out of building with great force.  When he goes to investigate, he finds Jasnah surrounded by glowing geometric shapes.  The current theory is that this is Jasnah dismissing her Shardplate, which I am inclined to agree with.  

When taken together, it seems to me that Jasnah swore her fourth Oath soon after sparing Renarin.  While it is possible that Jasnah had obtained Shardplate prior to this, the scene with Renarin is just too much of a game-changing decision on Jasnah's part for me to think that there wasn't an oath involved.  This also would imply that the Elsecaller fourth Oath revolves around not letting logic rule 100% of the time. 

Furthermore, it also fits Jasnah's personality.  With Kaladin, the two oaths we've seen have been sworn in the heat of the moment (I'm about to die, so I'm going to be dramatic and swear another oath and EXPLODE WITH POWER!).  With Jasnah, she makes the right decision (spares Renarin), ponders on it while she's traveling to the building mentioned above, swears the oath, then uses her shiny new Shardplate to own these voidspren corrupted noobs.  Any thoughts?

 

I think this theory is more likely.  Jasnah isn't one for making snide remarks about plate to Shallan.  I think it's most likely that Jasnah just deduced what Shardplate is.

 

On 1/4/2019 at 8:00 AM, robardin said:

Jasnah may have already sworn her Fourth Ideal (for Shardplate) prior to Thaylen Fields. Earlier, in Urithiru, when she catches Shallan sketching instead of taking notes during one of Dalinar's meetings planning how to talk to the other world leaders about the Everstorm (and sketching Kaladin, no less), she rejects Shallan's suggestion that her wardship be considered over because she's a "full Radiant" now: "Radiant, yes. Full? Where's your armor?"

I thought the obvious comeback would be, "Well, where's your armor then, if you're playing Senior Radiant?" but Shallan merely acts confused.

Jasnah then goes on to make a list of the ways that Shallan has proven herself either immature or unreliable, and concludes by saying that in any case, Shallan's wardship as a scholar is separate from her path as a Radiant, where they're in different Orders anyway and that Jasnah probably isn't suited to be her mentor in that regard in any case.

But it seems to me that someone like Jasnah would not drop that kind of line - "Where's your armor, then, Miss Full Radiant?" - without being prepared for the obvious "same to you" comeback. And "I never said I was one, either" seems like a lame comeback.

 

[Messydesk]

I like OP's theory and if I remember correctly Jasnah's expression was "nonplussed" when Adolin saw her after with "a fading glow and geometric shapes outlining her". One could think that it was her first time using the Shardplate she acquired after swearing the 4th Ideal and being surprised how it worked (since the Plates before had been those taken from past Radiants and powered by infused gemstones).

The plural form Brandon used when talking about on screen Radiants with Plate was probably referring to the visions Dalinar saw? The first one in TWOK had two Radiants dropping from the sky in full armor, the same vision is seen second time in Oathbringer when Dalinar requests it (this time he's playing the part of one of the Radiants).

[Pathfinder]

3 hours ago, Messydesk said:

I like OP's theory and if I remember correctly Jasnah's expression was "nonplussed" when Adolin saw her after with "a fading glow and geometric shapes outlining her". One could think that it was her first time using the Shardplate she acquired after swearing the 4th Ideal and being surprised how it worked (since the Plates before had been those taken from past Radiants and powered by infused gemstones).

The plural form Brandon used when talking about on screen Radiants with Plate was probably referring to the visions Dalinar saw? The first one in TWOK had two Radiants dropping from the sky in full armor, the same vision is seen second time in Oathbringer when Dalinar requests it (this time he's playing the part of one of the Radiants).

There was a big back and forth about nonplussed awhile back. Brandon meant in the book for it to mean unperturbed, not surprised. So it is actually the opposite of her being shocked. 

[Messydesk]

6 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

There was a big back and forth about nonplussed awhile back. Brandon meant in the book for it to mean unperturbed, not surprised. So it is actually the opposite of her being shocked. 

Ah that changes it then... I had to look up the word while reading since English is not my first language and thought it was the first translation I found for it, not the second. Thanks for clearing it up!

[Wander89]

Jasnah strikes me as the secretive type that has probably swore/managed a lot more than she's putting on. I wouldn't be surprised to see that she has surpassed many other Radiants so far.

[CrazyRioter]

She's been at this since around the time of Gavilar's death, so she's got everyone else beat on experience.

[Pathfinder]

Personally I think Jasnah may be a full 5 oathed Radiant or a 4 oathed radiant, but because Shallan has not come to terms with herself being a 4 oathed radiant, Jasnah being 4th, is still considered ahead of Shallan. The reason I say this, is because after Words of Radiance, there is a WoB that Shallan is one oath more than Kaladin. At the end of Words of Radiance, Kaladin was a 3rd oath knight, making Shallan at the end of Words of Radiance a 4th oath knight. After Oathbringer was released, there is a WoB stating that Jasnah is further along than Shallan (he has to check however). That says to me that Jasnah is either a more experienced 4th oath knight than Shallan, or already on her 5th oath. Pertinent WoB shown below

edit: Though I do acknowledge that the WoB about Jasnah could be interpreted that she bonded Ivory before Shallan bonded Pattern the first time. Personally I interpret it the way I stated above. 

 

3/18/14

tganchero (paraphrased)
How many oaths can a Radiant swear?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)
There is an upper-limit/threshold to the number of oaths a Radiant may make. By the end of WoR, Shallan was a step higher than Kaladin.

 

9/6/18

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]
When did Shallan take the First Oath?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]
That's been quite a while. She's been on this path longer than almost anybody. Jasnah's been going for a while. If you look at the timeline, I think Jasnah beats her. But she's been on this path for years.

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]
Do we get to find out when she took that First Oath?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]
Yes, I'm planning to delve into that. It's supposed to be a "Wait, What?" I'd have to look exactly at the timeline, Jasnah beats her.  Jasnah definitely beats her.

Questioner 2 [PENDING REVIEW]
<Are you sure?>

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]
Maybe not. I'd have to look at the timelines. This is why I have Karen, to keep my timelines for me!

Edited January 21, 2019 by Pathfinder