Dalakaar

Your Predictions for the Gap? (Book 5-6)

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Hey all.

 

I'm guessing everyone reading this is already aware but just in case you're new/missed it; the Stormlight Archive will be produced in two five-book arcs.

This means there will of course, be a gap between the books. From what I've seen/read it sounds like the consensus is 15 years. (Guessing there's a WoB I haven't read on the topic.)

I suspect there will be something pretty momentous at the end of book 5 to cap things off.

Now what do you suppose that could be? I don't have any solid theories myself yet, but varying ideas all running amok through my grey brain matter.

***

Here's a not-entirely logical progression that's going through my brain about all this on the fly.

Firstly, what would slow things down for a bit? Ie. Why is there the gap? I get it from a technical perspective, acts, pacing, etc, but there has to be an in-universe reason for the gap as well. I'm guessing it's going to be something pretty bad. The end of the first arc will undoubtedly have some sort of fitting conclusion for the first crew (Kaladin/Shallan/Dalinar/etc) but I don't see things ending, er, happily... There needs to be a reason for the next arc to come around in the first place. A reason for the first group to go on hiatus for the interval as well. I doubt anything terribly important is going to happen during the gap. Or if it is it will be off-screen, referenced in the back 5 flashbacks. So a conclusion with a bit of a slowing down, but the promise of problems arising again. (Otherwise why have a gap at all?)

Few things...

First, Lift doesn't need stormlight to use her surges. That alone has me believing we'll get to a point where no one but her has access to their powers. How that's done I don't know, but the simple fact that everyone but her needs it to access their surges makes it pretty easy to see there will be a point where no one can use it, but her.

Second, the reaction the Stormfather has to Odium. IMHO, the Stormfather is terrfied of him. But it was too much from a stoic stolid Stormfather for me to just brush off.

Third, throughout the books we're seeing small tidbits of info passed to us in regards to Stormlight acting almost like a drug. Kaladin himself worries, "was this what it would be like every time he ran dry". At some point, someones going to run dry and it's not going to be pretty methinks! Well, what if everyone runs dry? (Everyone that isn't awesome that is.)

Fourth, this quote from the Stormfather. "To fight directly might coax out forces that could hurt him, as he has been hurt before. Those scars do not heal. To pick a champion, then lose, will only cost him time. He has that in plenitude. He still will not agree easily, but it is possible he will agree. If presented with the option in the right moment, the right way. Then he will be bound.

Time, the Stormfather said. Which, though dross to him, is the most valuable thing a man can have."

Time itself is a win, but then if it's a win, time will have a cost. That gap between books may not just be a "gap". It could be the product of a momentary win. A momentary win with a cost...? What is the cost?

...

Odium(or something) kills the Stormfather. No more highstorms. No more Stormlight. I'm sure there will be some tit for tat in this exchange. The loss of the Stormfather as the price for winning the time between books. Odium's great counter-stroke to a plan from the KR that goes awry perhaps. In that same vein, I go back to Lift. She doesn't need Stormlight to surgebind... she'll have access to powers, and I could see her being the reason Stormlight comes back in book 6. It also fits in with the Honor/Cultivation duality we have. The front 5 seem particularly relevant to Honor. Cultivation is just sort of sitting back biding her time. Except we know she's not just sitting back. She directly impacted Dalinar like a chess piece to counter Odium's Champion plot. Cultivation seems to be playing the long game, and if I had to guess I'd say Cultivation is going to be more of the theme in the back 5 to compliment Honor in the front. Lift being something of her Champion possibly? (Thus she took from Lift the need for Honor and replaced it with sustenance, cultivation.)

 

It also leaves us in an interesting, yet at the same times almost boring, point in the books. The perfect place for a 15 year gap. No radiance for the Radiants, a reason to slow down, retire, move onto other things, their lives.

***

This is all off the top of my head as I write this and ponder, so now it's time for your ideas! (Cause I'm not at all sure I'm on the right track, albeit it makes some sense to me.)

Cheers :D 

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I read somewhere that the highstorms predated the arrival of Shards to Roshar. Maybe in Arcanum Unbounded. Good theory otherwise.

(I'm really lazy, could someone find that quote)

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1 minute ago, Dr. Dapper said:

I read somewhere that the highstorms predated the arrival of Shards to Roshar. Maybe in Arcanum Unbounded. Good theory otherwise.

(I'm really lazy, could someone find that quote)

Good call I think I remember that too. Could be highstorms still, just without investiture then. /shrug :D  (Removing the link to the Spiritual realm via Stormfather death, also I hope I am using "investiture" correctly.)

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8 minutes ago, Dr. Dapper said:

I read somewhere that the highstorms predated the arrival of Shards to Roshar. Maybe in Arcanum Unbounded. Good theory otherwise.

(I'm really lazy, could someone find that quote)

True, but the Stormfather also existed before the Shards came to Roshar.

It's very likely that killing/destroying the Stormfather could stop the Highstorms.

For the OP, it's certainly a possible scenario, but I can't see it. If it were so easy for Odium to kill the Stormfather I think he would have done it already.

A common theory for the gap is that our modern knights go to Damnation in the Heralds place, buying 15 ish years before they break.

 

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I like all the theories. I'm not sure any of them are likely, but the idea that resonates most with me is Lift is the only surgebinder, it just sounds really cool.

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I'm subscribed to the theory that the Oathpact will be reinstated in some capacity, with a good portion of the current Radiants we know and love taking place of the fallen Heralds (except maybe Ash and Taln will reprise their roles as sacrifices), locking Odium away for at least the majority of the time between 5 and 6. Jasnah will probably be the one to choose who goes and who stays, and as depressing as it is to say, she probably has to stay on Roshar unless Gavinor is old enough to take the reigns of Alethkar, which I don't see happening since he's only 3 (I think) as of now, and that's a pretty large time-jump in an awkward area, with an active Desolation and everything. 

Also possible is that's the point in which Venli/Rlain and Jasnah/Dalinar come to an agreement and the non-Fused parsh side with the humans, breaking the morale of the Fused who see that their descendants have sided with the true Voidbringers and extinction is not necessary for a symbiosis has been achieved, ridding Odium of his main forces (at least the useful ones) and maybe even the thunderclasts, too, if they can still think despite the mangling they've undergone.

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My crazy pet theory has always been that Rayse will be dead and the Odium shard shattered by the end of book 5, but that the back half will be about how people don't really need the excuse of Odium to be terrible to each other

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3 hours ago, Invocation said:

Also possible is that's the point in which Venli/Rlain and Jasnah/Dalinar come to an agreement and the non-Fused parsh side with the humans, breaking the morale of the Fused who see that their descendants have sided with the true Voidbringers and extinction is not necessary for a symbiosis has been achieved, ridding Odium of his main forces (at least the useful ones) and maybe even the thunderclasts, too, if they can still think despite the mangling they've undergone.

I dearly want the Singers and humans to not kill each other so I am rooting for this ending of the series.

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Kaladin: *walks up to Nightwatcher* I need Stormlight, please. I'll do anything.

Nightwatcher: Ok. *hands Kaladin one sphere* Granted, you now have Stormlight. Sadly, you no longer know how to Surgebind. Tata.

 

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I also thought before that at the end of book 5, the Oathpact will be partly reinstated to give them all a break, and books 6-10 will deal with the ultimate end of the Oathpact and what comes instead.

It's far from what I want (because I'm terrified some of our heroes, especially Kaladin, would have to fill in the role ... and I'd HATE that), but it's what I fear.

For the rest ... humpf. I can't really come up with any cool theories as long as we don't know what happens at the end of 5.

I'm already thinking about a "what happens in the one year gap between 3 and 4?" thread.

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Just my two cents here but... 

If the Stormfather dies, and stormlight stops, Roshar becomes a dead husk. 

Not only human society suffers the economic issues and the death of their way if life by soulcast Era being useless, but also ecological collapse. 

Skyeels no longer fly. Chasm fiends and other gretshells die under their own weight (The Reshi isles are doomed). And from what we saw of passing storms rejuvenating the spren in Shadesmar, there may be a Cognitive collapse as well. 

The end of the Stormfather is the end of everything. 

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Odium escapes and kills Cultivation

Dalinar and Co trapped within Damnation trying to find a way to defeat Odium. 

Roshar suffers desolation. Venli does her best to protect even humans. 

 

<gap> 

 

They find way out and escape Damnation. Team up with Venli. 

Dalinar ascends to Godhood/honor, maybe gets Cultivation powers too. (similar to what Harmony did)

Odium defeated and flees. (bot not splintered...so may comeback later)

 

Edited by TequilaJack
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I am also a fan of the idea that the KR will take the place of the Heralds, simply because it would be an awesome ending to see Kaladin, Shallan, Szeth, Venli, and others swear the Oathpact and go to Damnation. It would be a cliffhanger, and a resolution at the same time. I think it is unlikely to happen though.

One thing I do believe is that Rayse will survive until the back half. 

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Brandon has said that the first 5 books are one arc, and the second 5 books are a second arc, with an overarching thread tying them together. And irl, it'll be something like 5 years before Brandon gets to writing Book 6.

So because of this, I really don't think that Book 5 will end with any kind of a cliffhanger, such as the protagonists being so desperate that they need to reinstate the Oathpact (which I also think is a terrible, terrible idea, but that's a different subject), or any other kind of major, unresolved situation. Books 6-10 are kind of like a sequel series to books 1-5.

I cover a bit of this here:

And here:

 

Edited by RShara
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On ‎12‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 4:46 PM, Dalakaar said:

Hey all.

 

I'm guessing everyone reading this is already aware but just in case you're new/missed it; the Stormlight Archive will be produced in two five-book arcs.

This means there will of course, be a gap between the books. From what I've seen/read it sounds like the consensus is 15 years. (Guessing there's a WoB I haven't read on the topic.)

I suspect there will be something pretty momentous at the end of book 5 to cap things off.

Now what do you suppose that could be? I don't have any solid theories myself yet, but varying ideas all running amok through my grey brain matter.

***

Here's a not-entirely logical progression that's going through my brain about all this on the fly.

Firstly, what would slow things down for a bit? Ie. Why is there the gap? I get it from a technical perspective, acts, pacing, etc, but there has to be an in-universe reason for the gap as well. I'm guessing it's going to be something pretty bad. The end of the first arc will undoubtedly have some sort of fitting conclusion for the first crew (Kaladin/Shallan/Dalinar/etc) but I don't see things ending, er, happily... There needs to be a reason for the next arc to come around in the first place. A reason for the first group to go on hiatus for the interval as well. I doubt anything terribly important is going to happen during the gap. Or if it is it will be off-screen, referenced in the back 5 flashbacks. So a conclusion with a bit of a slowing down, but the promise of problems arising again. (Otherwise why have a gap at all?)

Few things...

First, Lift doesn't need stormlight to use her surges. That alone has me believing we'll get to a point where no one but her has access to their powers. How that's done I don't know, but the simple fact that everyone but her needs it to access their surges makes it pretty easy to see there will be a point where no one can use it, but her.

Second, the reaction the Stormfather has to Odium. IMHO, the Stormfather is terrfied of him. But it was too much from a stoic stolid Stormfather for me to just brush off.

Third, throughout the books we're seeing small tidbits of info passed to us in regards to Stormlight acting almost like a drug. Kaladin himself worries, "was this what it would be like every time he ran dry". At some point, someones going to run dry and it's not going to be pretty methinks! Well, what if everyone runs dry? (Everyone that isn't awesome that is.)

Fourth, this quote from the Stormfather. "To fight directly might coax out forces that could hurt him, as he has been hurt before. Those scars do not heal. To pick a champion, then lose, will only cost him time. He has that in plenitude. He still will not agree easily, but it is possible he will agree. If presented with the option in the right moment, the right way. Then he will be bound.

Time, the Stormfather said. Which, though dross to him, is the most valuable thing a man can have."

Time itself is a win, but then if it's a win, time will have a cost. That gap between books may not just be a "gap". It could be the product of a momentary win. A momentary win with a cost...? What is the cost?

...

Odium(or something) kills the Stormfather. No more highstorms. No more Stormlight. I'm sure there will be some tit for tat in this exchange. The loss of the Stormfather as the price for winning the time between books. Odium's great counter-stroke to a plan from the KR that goes awry perhaps. In that same vein, I go back to Lift. She doesn't need Stormlight to surgebind... she'll have access to powers, and I could see her being the reason Stormlight comes back in book 6. It also fits in with the Honor/Cultivation duality we have. The front 5 seem particularly relevant to Honor. Cultivation is just sort of sitting back biding her time. Except we know she's not just sitting back. She directly impacted Dalinar like a chess piece to counter Odium's Champion plot. Cultivation seems to be playing the long game, and if I had to guess I'd say Cultivation is going to be more of the theme in the back 5 to compliment Honor in the front. Lift being something of her Champion possibly? (Thus she took from Lift the need for Honor and replaced it with sustenance, cultivation.)

 

It also leaves us in an interesting, yet at the same times almost boring, point in the books. The perfect place for a 15 year gap. No radiance for the Radiants, a reason to slow down, retire, move onto other things, their lives.

***

This is all off the top of my head as I write this and ponder, so now it's time for your ideas! (Cause I'm not at all sure I'm on the right track, albeit it makes some sense to me.)

Cheers :D 

I agree with the theory about Stormlight going out. What that means for Dalinar and the Stormfather...I'd rather not think about that. But I think it'll leave Lift and Renarin (who I believe will be able to use Voidlight as an alternative source of Investiture). Add in Rysn with Churi-Churi and you've got a slightly altered version of The Girl Who Stood Up (which I also think would make for a poignant - if slightly underwhelming - title). 

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There are A LOT of things Brandon can do with the ending of book 5, including the above mentioned 'nothing major' option.

I'm still a kind of sort of believer in the Tranquille Halls idea, where something is wrong with Roshar's afterlife, or the Tranquille Halls are an actual place etc.

For the longest time I was partial to the idea that Kaladin would die defeating Odium's champion, only to wake up in Braize, leading to the revelation that the real reason for the Recreance was anyone with a nahel bond is bound to Braize just like the Heralds.  I don't much believe that anymore.

 

If I had to guess, I think there's mutual destruction between Dalinar's forces and Odium's, to such a degree that Roshar is either destroyed, or forced to be abandoned.  (And as mentioned above, would make Lift's abilities even more handy - and her book is book 6.)

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31 minutes ago, What's a Seawolf? said:

or the Tranquille Halls are an actual place etc.

But they are, aren't they?
I believe I read somewhere that the Tranquiline Halls are Ashyn (= the original human homeworld which humans destroyed and had to leave = "being cast out from the Tranq. Halls").

... Which makes me think about some very interesting possibilities. Let's make the cast worldhop to the burning wreck that is Ashyn and see their "Tranquiline Halls" ... :lol:

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Just now, Winds Alight said:

But they are, aren't they?
I believe I read somewhere that the Tranquiline Halls are Ashyn (= the original human homeworld which humans destroyed and had to leave = "being cast out from the Tranq. Halls").

... Which makes me think about some very interesting possibilities. Let's make the cast worldhop to the burning wreck that is Ashyn and see their "Tranquiline Halls" ... :lol:

Yes, I believe so.  But I also think the common in-world belief of 'fighting in the afterlife to reclaim the Tranquille Halls' will come into play at some point, even if it's not the afterlife.

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Stormlight been a story about a magic that became myth and came back 1000s of years later. I doubt its going away again. 

Lift will be a worldhopper. Thats why she converts food into Stormlight, a way to hack the system and let her use her powers off world. 

I would love to see Dalinar ascend to Unity and odium defeated. 

I think a lot will change and fast during the break. With Dalinar now the unity shard he starts uniting all of roshar. The humans and parshendi start working to rebuild together. Fabrial tech explodes airships and other nifty things are invented. All is great until they start to explore the ruins of aimia. They find what ever secret hidden there that could destroy worlds. 

 Not gonna happen but i could come up with 100 more and none will be as good as what's going to happen.

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4 hours ago, garlick said:

Stormlight been a story about a magic that became myth and came back 1000s of years later. I doubt its going away again. 

Lift will be a worldhopper. Thats why she converts food into Stormlight, a way to hack the system and let her use her powers off world. 

I would love to see Dalinar ascend to Unity and odium defeated. 

I think a lot will change and fast during the break. With Dalinar now the unity shard he starts uniting all of roshar. The humans and parshendi start working to rebuild together. Fabrial tech explodes airships and other nifty things are invented. All is great until they start to explore the ruins of aimia. They find what ever secret hidden there that could destroy worlds. 

 Not gonna happen but i could come up with 100 more and none will be as good as what's going to happen.

I like to joke about Lift becoming a worldhopper and eating everyone's lunch. Including Kelsier's. But if she actually does I don't think it'll be until after book 10. She'd have to learn how to get a spren offworld first since that's non-trivial.

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In-system space travel. The fifth arc will end with Odium either dead or re-imprisoned, with the ... characters who wrote the three letters in Oathbringer reaching out across the spiritual realm to interfere with him - they have been directly referred to in the story ("it will draw out powers that could hurt him"), and which have stated - or at least one has stated about Odium - "If he becomes a problem, he will be dealt with". Maybe those characters will need help, and ten protagonists will fight to contain Odium while he is restrained by those characters, or whoever takes up Odium after the characters kill his predecessor will need to be contained. And that will give them time to develop space ships which will be restricted to their home system, and they will then travel to the other planets around their star, which they learnt in Oathbringer that some have life on them - though some they learnt are further out than their home system.

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On 12/28/2018 at 6:46 PM, Dalakaar said:

Third, throughout the books we're seeing small tidbits of info passed to us in regards to Stormlight acting almost like a drug. Kaladin himself worries, "was this what it would be like every time he ran dry". At some point, someones going to run dry and it's not going to be pretty methinks! Well, what if everyone runs dry? (Everyone that isn't awesome that is.)

 

I think that it acts like breath from warbreaker, whereas it regenerates the body, while breath makes you live longer.  What also comes to mind is the lack of breath, and the feeling of being a drab, is comparable to what Kaladin feels in the line.

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I think the Desolation will be defeated and Odium will retreat. The back half could have a new enemy or the same one from a new angle.

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Maybe the second Ark could be Cultivation versus Honor sort of thing. Lift could be an experiment by Cultivation to create her own warriors to cultivate the World to be better.

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1 hour ago, Karnage said:

Cultivation versus Honor

That's an interesting idea I hadn't considered before.

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