Star Wars Ep 9 The Rise of Skywalker

[Use the Falchion]

Saw it a second time, and my opinion hasn't changed from above. This movie doesn't age well with me...

[Jaywalk]

I think each of the movies in the trilogy is excellent, though this one was probably the weakest. I enjoy it as the end of the Skywalker saga, but I think the sequel trilogy is an absolute travesty as a whole—except for the throughline plot with Rey and Ben, which I actually quite like.

When George Lucas made the original trilogy, he actually had the entire story sketched out. If only these storytellers did the same.

[Briar King]

I’m not sure why there is a 2nd and unnecessary thread for this movie???

Trying to talk my son into going for my 2nd viewing while he’s still out on Xmas break. I need that 2nd watch. 

This one was the 1st JJ movie I actually liked. I prefer tv JJ.

 I’m not sure what is the more cheesy/cringeworthy 1st sentence of a crawl between this ones “The dead speak” or Ep 3’s “War!”

[Briar King]

Umm ok consider me surprised to learn we getting Ep 9 on blu Ray tomorrow. Did the corona give us a month earlier release? Was expecting late April.

[Jaywalk]

14 hours ago, Briar King said:

Umm ok consider me surprised to learn we getting Ep 9 on blu Ray tomorrow. Did the corona give us a month earlier release? Was expecting late April.

Yup, Disney bumped it up. Frozen 2 was originally supposed to drop on Disney+ in a few months; they bumped that up too.

[Spren of Kindness]

I've enjoyed most of the Star Wars movies, though I haven't watched ROTS for some personal reasons, and I liked this one.  Maybe it's because I'm nostalgic, maybe it's because SW is more of an escape than anything else for me.  I have my complaints, but overall, it was a fairly good movie.  My biggest problem was that TLJ didn't seem to set up a lot of stuff for TROS, and Reylo.  I was never on board with that.

[Orlion Blight]

I shall break my silence on the matter: 

This may be my least favorite Star Wars. There seemed to be no care or love put into crafting it as it built to a disappointing climatic battle. 

Compare the fight with Palpatine in this movie with the fight with Snoke in The Last Jedi. Somehow, Snoke's power has more weight to it than Palpatine, even though Palpatine is electricuting a fleet of Star ships. 

And compare the Knights of Ren with the Guards in the Last Jedi...

But I'm not surprised. J J must have some dirt on powerful people to keep getting opportunities to make disappointing stories. 

[Condensation]

This is probably my second favorite Star Wars movie. First is Last Jedi because it's AMAZING. I'd say that 6 comes next then 7.

I really enjoyed the fight scenes and the part where

Spoiler

The people on the Star Destroyer are like "Jam their speeders" and then the other guy says "They're not using speeders!" And it turns out they're riding space horses!!!! Ahhh!!!

 However, I don't feel like the

Spoiler

Relationship between Kylo and Rey

Was totally warranted. I could've done without that. 

[Use the Falchion]

After seven months, many debates online, a sharp decrease in my passion for this franchise, and 4.5 drafts of a personal revision of how I would've liked TROS and the sequel trilogy as a whole to go (for both creative writing experience and personal catharsis), I think I'm almost ready to watch TROS again. Maybe by October I'll feel ready...either then or sometime in 2021. 

 

[Snorkel]

I felt like I enjoyed it when I watched it at the movie theatre.  But when looking back on it for the best bits . . . I came up really blank.  The part I liked most was 

Spoiler

that Imperial officer who went betrayaley

but that story line got shot in the face about 20 second later, so :<

I have a space on my DVD shelf for Star Wars.  I've got my Box Set with the un-Lucased-laserdisc-edition of the original trilogy, and I've got my Rogue One.  The only thing I feel is missing is The Mandalorian tv series.  I hope that gets DVDs.  Maybe a good-bits-montage of Phantom Menace might be nice too, and that's really the only Star Wars I care about any more.

[Use the Falchion]

31 minutes ago, Snorkel said:

I felt like I enjoyed it when I watched it at the movie theatre.  But when looking back on it for the best bits . . . I came up really blank.

That's sort of how I felt when I first watched it. Since then my opinion of the movie has gone down to the point I'd rank it in the bottom tier of Star Wars movies for me (and at the bottom of that list too). 

32 minutes ago, Snorkel said:

The part I liked most was 

  Reveal hidden contents

that Imperial officer who went betrayaley

but that story line got shot in the face about 20 second later, so :<

Because TROS can't let things like shocking reveals or derailed characterization get in the way of the speed of the movie.  It's all about momentum after all. 

[Snorkel]

For me the lowest was TLJ.  And I think the reason I enjoyed Rise of Skywalker at the theatres was profound relief that it wasn't insulting me like TLJ seemed to be trying to do.
 

TLJ: Oh, you expected this promising plot arc to go somewhere? Well it's actually going down this hole! Bet you didn't expect THAT! You big dummy.
^ and I've just been listening to Writing Excuses podcasts about "keeping promises" to your readers, and having proper payoff.

Also, that soft fourth-wall-break in the opening sequence.  Star Wars does not have secretaries and telephones.  Putting someone on hold is such a 20th century earth thing to do.  D:

I seriously cannot even re-watch that film, it just makes me angry.

******************

So, back to Rise of Skywalker.  Yeah, it was like babysitting a child, and you're giving up your time to do it.  They're not particularly fun to babysit.  But compared with the kid who smears poo all over the walls, on purpose, it's really good to be babysitting the boring but well-behaved kid!

Edited August 3, 2020 by Snorkel

[Use the Falchion]

44 minutes ago, Snorkel said:

And I think the reason I enjoyed Rise of Skywalker at the theatres was profound relief that it wasn't insulting me like TLJ seemed to be trying to do.

Hilariously enough, I feel the opposite now. I may not agree with many of the decisions made in TLJ, but I respect the creator and respect (most of) the decisions, especially in hindsight. TROS felt like JJ was making a movie to please everyone and in doing so pleased very few, instead of making the hard choice and following where the story led. 

 

45 minutes ago, Snorkel said:

TLJ: Oh, you expected this promising plot arc to go somewhere? Well it's actually going down this hole! Bet you didn't expect THAT! You big dummy.

Part of the blame does need to be laid at JJ's feet as well as people's expectations. Did Rey's family matter to her, when she knew who they were and that they weren't coming back, or us, who were expecting a some sort of twist? Did Snoke's identity matter because he was an anomaly within the story, or because we all thought he may be Darth Plagueis? (Which he totally should have been.)

JJ set up those mystery boxes, and when Rian answered most of them (in a controversial way to be sure, but still answered), JJ tried to force the plot back to where he wanted it to go, not where RJ set it up to go (which, admittedly, is what RJ did as well, but in retrospect he was far more graceful about it). 

In TLJ Kylo talks about killing the past, but he himself can't do so, and in turn the message fails - because that's the point. The message isn't to kill the past it's to learn from the past and then move forward. 

You wanted Snoke to be the new Big Bad? Sorry, here's Kylo, and he achieved everything his grandfather didn't. 

Spoiler

Sike! Actually, he's going to submit himself to another master and then redeem himself before dying because we can't have him die a villain and living to atone (and for more spin-off material) is too hard to do in Star Wars. 

And Palpatine's back because we wanted to tie things together! ...Except they were already tied together by the idea of legacy in Kylo/Ben and the First Order. 

You wanted Rey to be someone? Well, she's not. The Force chose her because Darkness was rising and Light needed to rise to meet it. But that doesn't mean she can't forge her own destiny. 

Spoiler

Sike! She's a Palpatine* and that means all of her powers are now because she's related to someone special and not because of her own agency! 

You thought Luke was going to be The Most Awesome Jedi Ever? Well, he's not. He's jaded and cynical.** He's a stand-in for the old school fans who are gate-keeping Star Wars. But in the end, he still does the most Jedi thing possible and hands the baton off to Rey.

Spoiler

Yeah I've got nothing here. His scenes were some of the best, or at least comparable to Yoda and Obi-Wan in ROTJ. 

 

TLJ was very light on fanservice, in direct contrast to TFA and TROS.

Spoiler

In TROS, Rey goes to Tatooine - a planet that holds no significance to her personally and holds only painful memories for both Skywalker siblings - and takes up the name of the family that has been cold at best and antagonistic at worst. If she wanted to honor Leia, Rey could have taken up the name Organa, and let someone else take the Skywalker name. If she wanted to change the meaning of her family name, Rey could have taken up the name Palpatine and tried to redeem her family. If she wanted to honor her father-figure (or act like a post-humous wife to Ben (I hate this idea but it does need to be mentioned as a possibility)) Rey could have taken the name Solo.

But neither the ending nor the new name are done in service of the character. Both are for fanservice, and the movie falters because of it. 

 

In TLJ Finn and Poe had arcs, as much as I disagree with them. 

Spoiler

In TROS, Finn is stripped of an arc to focus on Rey and running after her the entire movie.

He's stripped of a romance with Rey so that Rey can have a romantic kiss with Ben...that they have to retcon into a kiss of relief in the novel seemingly because of pushback by different sides of the fandom. 

He's stripped of a romance with Rose to focus on a bond with Jannah...that goes nowhere because Jannah leaves with her potential father (I'm pretty sure Lando is canonically her father, but if people didn't know that Lando had a daughter from the leaks or visual dictionary, it may not have been clear, especially since Lando has flirted with literally every woman he's interacted with onscreen (Hera, Qi'ra, Leia, his robot who he was lovers with, some Imperial Guard in his Lando comic...yeah, flirting with Jannah wouldn't have been out of character for the man).

He's stripped of a potential romance with Poe by Poe having a backstory that basically contradicts his already explored and explained past and adding a love interest there.

He's stripped of the ability to use the Force in any meaningful way because of...reasons. 

He's stripped of the ability to earn anything because the title of General is simply given to him.

I'm totally over how Finn was treated in TROS. Completely. 

 

52 minutes ago, Snorkel said:

Also, that soft fourth-wall-break in the opening sequence.  Star Wars does not have secretaries and telephones.  Putting someone on hold is such a 20th century earth thing to do.

...I mean, didn't Han do that in ANH, when asking the Stormtrooper on the other end of the line how his day was. Didn't Family Guy make a whole bit about that in Blue Harvest? I understand why people didn't like it, but personally found it pretty funny (especially learning an in-world word for "trolling" which in turn has changed over time). I will agree with Luke throwing his lightsaber away. That's far more awkward. 

 

1 hour ago, Snorkel said:

So, back to Rise of Skywalker.  Yeah, it was like babysitting a child, and you're giving up your time to do it.  They're not particularly fun to babysit.  But compared with the kid who smears poo all over the walls, on purpose, it's really good to be babysitting the boring but well-behaved kid!

As different as I'd see this analogy, I gotta say I love it. To me it'd be like TLJ was the kid who colored all over the walls, but the colors are actually pretty good (but they do need to go), whereas TROS is the younger sibling trying to do the same thing but uses poop instead. But at least since you sort of like TROS, you have something to look forward to after TLJ...

 

*I've actually come to terms with this twist and genuinely like it. But a poorly implemented twist is more harmful to a story than no twist at all. And this one was very poorly implemented. See how people reacted to Game of Thrones' final season.

**Amusingly enough, I find that Luke's arc in TLJ is the exact same arc that Tony Stark has in Avengers Endgame. It's the second half of the Hero's Journey, and it's brilliant.

[BloomAgeOne]

On 8/3/2020 at 10:15 AM, Use the Falchion said:

**Amusingly enough, I find that Luke's arc in TLJ is the exact same arc that Tony Stark has in Avengers Endgame. It's the second half of the Hero's Journey, and it's brilliant.

I have to agree with this, but although I enjoyed Tony Stark's arc in Endgame, I really didn't enjoy Luke's arc in TLJ. I guess that I don't believe that it fit his character, particularly after RotJ.

I really disliked the sequel trilogy in general. All of the movies had major points that really disappointed me, as a long-time dedicated Star Wars fan. In TFA, it was the interactions between Han and Leia, and the idea that Luke ran away in the first place. For me, TLJ destroyed not only Luke's character, but his memory. I like how Mark Hamill described Luke in TLJ as 'Jake Skywalker'. However, ROS not only failed to link all 9 movies together, but the introduction of force healing invalidates the entire fulcrum of Anakin's transition into Darth Vader.

I have come to terms with the existence of the sequel trilogy, but I honestly try not to think about it all too often. If you enjoy it, I'm happy for you. I'll stick with Legends myself - it's a continuity that in my opinion has much more care for the legacy of the characters, respects the fans, is created by people with a passion for Star Wars, and is extremely consistent. I'm still really sad that it hasn't been continued. There was so much more to explore.

[Use the Falchion]

2 hours ago, BloomAgeOne said:

For me, TLJ destroyed not only Luke's character, but his memory.

To me, it validates his whole journey, but I understand the feeling completely. I don't think either of us are wrong, but I do wish more people would try to see it both ways. 

 

2 hours ago, BloomAgeOne said:

I like how Mark Hamill described Luke in TLJ as 'Jake Skywalker'.

Mark Hamill did say a lot of things about Luke and TLJ, but the one that stuck out to me was how he said he was wrong about his ideas for Luke. 

https://www.avclub.com/mark-hamill-regrets-ever-making-his-debates-with-rian-j-1823713825

 

2 hours ago, BloomAgeOne said:

I have to agree with this, but although I enjoyed Tony Stark's arc in Endgame, I really didn't enjoy Luke's arc in TLJ.

I have a few theories on why people feel this way, but it's neither here nor there. 

 

2 hours ago, BloomAgeOne said:

However, ROS not only failed to link all 9 movies together, but the introduction of force healing invalidates the entire fulcrum of Anakin's transition into Darth Vader.

Don't forget that it also brought back the Sith, invalidating the entire Chosen One arc .

 

2 hours ago, BloomAgeOne said:

I'll stick with Legends myself - it's a continuity that in my opinion has much more care for the legacy of the characters, respects the fans, is created by people with a passion for Star Wars, and is extremely consistent.

I find myself torn on Legends. On one hand, it has some of my personal favorite stories, and characters arcs are a lot better. Jacen Solo is just a true Sith version of Kylo with more noble qualities. Ania Solo is Rey without having to spend three entire movies answering questions about her backstory. Jao Assam is the Jedi we all hoped Finn would turn into. (And I still need to read Thrawn's original trilogy!) On the other hand...Chewie gets killed by a moon, Luke stops believing in the Force for while, the Yuuzhan Vong are still controversial, the timeline is so confusing to the point that multiple levels of canon needed to exist to justify it, and the Sith come back.*

Overall, I think Legends is benefitting from nostalgia hard, and all of the bad stuff is slipping through the cracks while the good stuff is passing the test of time. (I have a friend who tried to read through all of the Legends pilot books before branching into the New Canon stuff, and he eventually gave up on that project, stating that life was too short to read things that he didn't actually enjoy. ...and that's when he started reading the Mistborn trilogy...hehehe...)

Or maybe I'm just used to cosmic resets because I'm a superhero fan before all else. 

 

*Although since the Sith returning was pre-Chosen One stuff, I'm not too hard on it.

[BloomAgeOne]

1 hour ago, Use the Falchion said:

I don't think either of us are wrong, but I do wish more people would try to see it both ways. 

I couldn't agree with this more. Star Wars is different for every fan, and I find it difficult to look at the current divide in the fanbase.

1 hour ago, Use the Falchion said:

Mark Hamill did say a lot of things about Luke and TLJ, but the one that stuck out to me was how he said he was wrong about his ideas for Luke.

Definitely a good point. It's great to see him speaking so openly about his ideas about the character, and how they have changed over time.

1 hour ago, Use the Falchion said:

Don't forget that it also brought back the Sith, invalidating the entire Chosen One arc .

Too true.

1 hour ago, Use the Falchion said:

I find myself torn on Legends. On one hand, it has some of my personal favorite stories, and characters arcs are a lot better. Jacen Solo is just a true Sith version of Kylo with more noble qualities. Ania Solo is Rey without having to spend three entire movies answering questions about her backstory. Jao Assam is the Jedi we all hoped Finn would turn into. (And I still need to read Thrawn's original trilogy!) On the other hand...Chewie gets killed by a moon, Luke stops believing in the Force for while, the Yuuzhan Vong are still controversial, the timeline is so confusing to the point that multiple levels of canon needed to exist to justify it, and the Sith come back.*

Overall, I think Legends is benefitting from nostalgia hard, and all of the bad stuff is slipping through the cracks while the good stuff is passing the test of time. (I have a friend who tried to read through all of the Legends pilot books before branching into the New Canon stuff, and he eventually gave up on that project, stating that life was too short to read things that he didn't actually enjoy. ...and that's when he started reading the Mistborn trilogy...hehehe...)

Or maybe I'm just used to cosmic resets because I'm a superhero fan before all else. 

I can agree with most of this. I actually had to look up Jao Assam - I'm not the most familiar with Legacy material beyond the main plot since I've never read the comics. I've always brought up Kyle Katarn as my go-to 'what Finn could have been'. I kind of enjoyed the Yuuzhan Vong, although that may also be because I enjoyed the story (Ganner Rhysode's sacrifice being a highlight from what I can remember).

I fit into a bit of an interesting place. What I consider canon (I guess you could call it my head-canon) consists of G-canon (the movies) and C-canon (what most people know as Star Wars Legends (I always get frustrated when people bring up Skippy or Tag and Bink as an argument against Legends, when they were never canon in Legends anyway). I don't consider the Star Wars: The Clone Wars TV show because it contradicts with a lot of this material, and I'm really pedantic about continuity.

I can definitely see that my love for Star Wars Legends is most likely influenced by nostalgia - I grew up reading the Tales of the Jedi and Knights of the Old Republic comics - Ulic Qel-Droma is still one of my favourite fictional characters anywhere. I found that I was able to transition into reading the novels as I grew older and more accustomed with the lore.

I have to admit that I'm not used to resets (I've never really read any superhero comics), so that may also contribute to explaining why I have never let go of my beloved stories and characters. Anyway, it's great to talk with another genuine Star Wars fan who is happy to recognise  and understand other people's points of view. 

[Briar King]

I don’t like the heading Legends they stuck us with and I’m still butt hurt after the these last 8 yrs. I remember feeling a small spark of excitement at there being new movies up until they announced JJ as director and I knew then that any hope of my precious EU surviving intact was a fools hope which shortly turned out to be the case. I love my EU. Even the bad books.. I loved Vong/NJO-True Sith stuff. That was thousands of $ and 2+ decades of my life I spent and I regret none of it.

I refuse to buy or read a single NUcanon making me now something I used to feel snotty towards....movie only fans. It is what it is though. I will keep standing my ground. It’s easy after this long.

Restart the EU timeline with new books and I’m the 1st in line to buy.

[Snorkel]

2 hours ago, Briar King said:

I love my EU.

It's OK, we can all know in our hearts that Kyle Katarn stole the real deathstar plans

[Use the Falchion]

4 hours ago, Briar King said:

I refuse to buy or read a single NUcanon making me now something I used to feel snotty towards....movie only fans. It is what it is though. I will keep standing my ground. It’s easy after this long.

I'd really recommend trying out Claudia Gray's books. I grew reading the old Jedi Apprentice books in my elementary school's library, and soon after I became a big Star Wars fan (I was digging my way through some of the comics like KOTOR, Legacy & Legacy II, and Knight Errant) Disney bought Lucasfilm. 

And since then I've read a LOT of the new canon stuff, and I can say with certainty that Claudia Gray's books are easily worth reading. Lost Stars is phenomenal if you want a love story, and Master & Apprentice digs into Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan's relationship in ways that I was afraid we'd never see again.* It's great seeing the tension, even if we know the ending. The only thing missing is a special appearance by Siri Tachi! The best part is that these shouldn't contradict your EU knowledge too much. Obi-Wan's early training is only covered in those Jedi Apprentice books, as far as I know, and those went out of print a long time ago. And what's another Rebel pilot or another TIE Fighter pilot going to do to the list? Seriously, I'd say check them out. 

Other than that, James Luceno's Tarkin has a nice tie-in or two that allude to his previous Star Wars book Darth Plagueis being canon, and John Jackson Miller's A New Dawn introduces us to a really cool villain named Rae Sloane (who is terribly underutilized after that)...but you don't need to read the book just for her. 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that gems can be found in both the new Canon and the Legends stuff. And Claudia Gray's Star Wars stuff rocks. 

 

*It's described as Romeo & Juliet in space, and it doesn't really disappoint. I read it during that first Force Friday, finishing all of the other books connected and feeling quite disappointed in how mediocre they were. Not discouraged, just disappointed. And then came this shining light of a book that was out of my wheelhouse in terms of subject matter, that I just fell in love with. And I wasn't the only one. Kristian Harloff from Schmoes Know (and later Collider) used his platform to spread the word of the book, and soon everyone wanted Claudia to come back. Unfortunately she hasn't written a sequel yet, but her books seem to do the best out of the new Canon ones when released. 

[danex]

Wow, this thread has nearly every Star Wars opinion possible. It seems there is no general consensus for this movie. 
My quick thoughts on all the new Star Wars:

I thoroughly enjoyed Rise of Skywalker
Hate The Last Jedi with a passion
Loved The Force Awakens
LOVED Rouge One
Solo was okay for the most part, but the entire movie is ruined by the one scene where they felt the need to explain the name “Solo”. Like really, that was stupid. I could write an essay on how stupid that scene was. 

[Truthless of Shinovar]

Just gonna put this out there, but Rogue One was probably the best Star Wars movie made. (Please don’t kill me)

[Snorkel]

33 minutes ago, Truthless of Shinovar said:

Just gonna put this out there, but Rogue One was probably the best Star Wars movie made. (Please don’t kill me)

It was pretty great.

I'm bummed that the merchandising focused so much on the new trilogy more than Rogue One.

 

I'm also bummed that there isn't yet an extended Making-Of documentary or Deleted Scenes collection.  (Only a few minutes of making-of that comes with the DVD/Bluray).

 

Quote

We'll take the next chance and the next, on and on, until we win or the chances are spent!

 

[I Am A Fish]

While watching I kinda enjoyed it, afterwords I hated it. Palpatine being alive ruined Vader's sacrifice.

[Jaywalk]

47 minutes ago, I Am A Fish said:

While watching I kinda enjoyed it, afterwords I hated it. Palpatine being alive ruined Vader's sacrifice.

Yeah, I initially liked the movie, but my feelings about it have not aged well.

[I Am A Fish]

2 minutes ago, Jaywalk said:

Yeah, I initially liked the movie, but my feelings about it have not aged well.

What really annoyed me, is that they used music to mess with your emotions

Ex: The soundtrack of luke blowing up the deathstar playing when they're lightspeed skipping

It's almost like they think that John Williams will make up for complete lack of plot.