Are All Terris Men Castrated (no baby making)?

[Arith Matic]

So how did the Lord Ruler breed new Terris?  did he choose men to you know, be designated for baby making like some Terris women did?  did he make some of the designated baby making men baby make a certain number of times, then castrate them, or were they locked into baby making for their job?

[king of nowhere]

it was more detailed in the mistboorn adventure game supplement of terris. I'm too lazy now to go look for it

[BooksBeforeDeath]

I believe all Terissmen were castrated (that the Lord Ruler found). I don't think Terrisman were involved in the Lord Ruler's breeding system, but were instead served as stewards for high ranking noblemen. I think that the Terriswoman were specifically for the breeding system, although I wonder what happened to those not chosen for the breeding system. Maybe some were stewardesses.

[Calderis]

All Terris who were raised to be stewards, which was the majority of males, were castrated. 

It was not all of them though. I don't think we have anything specific in that regard. 

 

[king of nowhere]

Since nobody is being less lazy than I am, I am looking into the MAG.

It says that all men not selected as breeders are castrated, meaning that some terris were selected and not castrated. So no, not all terris men are castrated. However, those selected for breeding live as prisoners in the breeding compounds, so every terrisman you could meet in the streets is castrated. those chosen for breeding were 1 in 8, among those whose families didn't have a past of feruchemy or rebellion.

there are a few non-castrated children that were either smuggled out of the compounds in secrecy, or born in secrecy - any terris woman not in the breeding program was executed if pregnant, and any children thus conceived was also executed. So, those free-born terris were rare

Edited December 14, 2018 by king of nowhere

[Calderis]

3 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

Since nobody is being less lazy than I am, I am looking into the MAG.

Less lazy, and more I don't trust the MAG. 

[RShara]

MAG isn't canon, though. We know all Terris males who were trained to be stewards were castrated. We don't know what percentage of the rest of the population were. However, most Terris males did become stewards, there would be a fairly small population of fertile males.

Quote

Brandon Sanderson

Chapter Twenty-Two

The Last Feruchemist?

Sazed is likely not the last Feruchemist. The Lord Ruler tried for a long time to breed Feruchemy out of the population, and it's highly unlikely that now the power would simply vanish because the living Feruchemists were killed. The genetic trait is still there, suppressed in the population, but it would eventually resurface.

That's not to say that the loss of the Synod wasn't a blow. That many living Feruchemists suddenly killed would wipe out a large segment of the population who could have bred Feruchemy true. However, the fact that many of the Synod were eunuchs made their usefulness in that regard less important.

Remember, however, that Sazed is struggling with depression. It's easier for him to see things in a depressing light than it is to see them in a positive light.

source

Note he says that many of the Synod were eunuchs, not all of them. That's as much info as we got.

[king of nowhere]

50 minutes ago, RShara said:

MAG isn't canon, though. We know all Terris males who were trained to be stewards were castrated. We don't know what percentage of the rest of the population were. However, most Terris males did become stewards, there would be a fairly small population of fertile males.

Note he says that many of the Synod were eunuchs, not all of them. That's as much info as we got.

None of that contradicts the MAG. eventual non-castrated members of the synod may be freeborn. Or maybe most of them were eunuchs because the others were women.

Also, given what we know, by canon, of the breeding program, the MAG makes a lot of sense.

[Arith Matic]

That makes sense.

[Tglassy]

The Lord Ruler was a Terrisman.  Logically, he wouldn't want to destroy his own people.  However, he also didn't want any other Ferruchemists being born in a world where gaining Allomancy was relatively easy, just have the right parents. He didn't want another Fullborn to wreck his position.  He's supposed to be a Sliver of Divinity.  Kind of defeats the purpose if random kids could gain that ability as well.  

If these problems were separate, then they would be easy.  If he wasn't a Terrisman, he could have just killed all Terris peoples and be done with it.  Instead, he tried to just kill those who had Ferruchemy.  So he turned them all into Mistrwraiths.  

Except that didn't work, because there were still people who had the Ferruchemy gene who weren't, themselves, Ferruchemists.  He didn't think of that.  So as he is solidifying his power, Ferruchemists are born.  He can't have that.  He hunts them.  He realizes his mistake.  

Ruin, no doubt, urged him to just kill them all.  Kill all his people to preserve his power.  But he couldn't do that. 

 

So he implemented a breeding program.  To the outside world, it's to make them into the perfect slaves.  But for TLR, it was to breed out Ferruchemy altogether.  Once that was done, he would be able to relax and let the Terris peoples go.  

So what he does is very carefully select who is and is not a breeder.  Anytime a Ferruchemist is discovered, they are killed, and their entire family lines are cut off from the breeding program.  The ones selected for breeding spend their entire lives copulating and having children.  It is their only function.  Once the women are done past childbearing age, they are released to be a Steward.  The men aren't so lucky.  

I would assume that should any of those children become known to be a Ferruchemist, their sires would be destroyed, and their siblings would be watched closely to determine if any Ferruchemy had passed to them, and likely would have been made infertile just in case.  

 

So having Tindwel (I listened to all the books, so I never saw the words spelled) be a breeder was a huge success for the Synod, as she had more than just the Ferruchemist gene, she was a full Ferruchemist, which means she passed on those strong genes to an entire new generation of Terris.  In fact, because all the Synod was destroyed and all Ferruchemists died as a result of the Inquisitors, it is very likely that all, or at least most, of the Ferruchemists and Ferrings in the Second Age is a direct descendant of Tindwel.

[killersquirrel59]

There is a major problem with the idea on the surface that the breeding program was meant to breed Feruchemy out of the Terris population. I fully accept that this is what was presented to the Obligators running the program (those who knew about Feruchemy in the first place at least), but there is a very important reason why the Lord Ruler needed to maintain at least a small number of Feruchemists.

Inquisitors

Each new Inquisitor the Lord Ruler wished to make required not only the sacrifice of 8 mistings and 1 mistborn or (less likely) Seer, but also 1 Feruchemist for the use of Feruchemical gold. Inquisitors are not immortal, and thus must periodically be replaced, and those pewter spikes needed to come from somewhere. As such, it follows that buried somewhere in the breeding program, there must have been some desire to create a small number of Feruchemists specifically to be sacrificed to make Inquisitors. A particularly morbid part of me actually wonders if infiltrations like Tindwyl's of the breeding program were known about all along and secretly allowed to happen, her offspring tracked and watched for any manifestation of Feruchemy so they could be taken for sacrifice. 

[StrikerEZ]

I agreed with most of your post, except for one minor thing.

On 12/27/2018 at 8:57 AM, Tglassy said:

So having Tindwel (I listened to all the books, so I never saw the words spelled) be a breeder was a huge success for the Synod, as she had more than just the Ferruchemist gene, she was a full Ferruchemist, which means she passed on those strong genes to an entire new generation of Terris.  In fact, because all the Synod was destroyed and all Ferruchemists died as a result of the Inquisitors, it is very likely that all, or at least most, of the Ferruchemists and Ferrings in the Second Age is a direct descendant of Tindwel.

Pre-Catacendre, all Feruchemists were Full Feruchemists. There were no Ferrings until the Allomancy and Feruchemy genes started mixing together. 

[goody153]

Abit of offtopic about breeding program that involves Tindwyl's. Isn't kinda sad that she lived that life and while she brought forth so many children that brought with them the hope for feruchemy to survive but by the endgame of the trilogy. All feruchemist except Sazed is dead.

Granted it all worked out but God Mistborn Era 1 is such an hellish setting. And people say Mistborn Trilogy is for teens.

On 1/4/2019 at 1:57 AM, killersquirrel59 said:

There is a major problem with the idea on the surface that the breeding program was meant to breed Feruchemy out of the Terris population. I fully accept that this is what was presented to the Obligators running the program (those who knew about Feruchemy in the first place at least), but there is a very important reason why the Lord Ruler needed to maintain at least a small number of Feruchemists.

Inquisitors

Each new Inquisitor the Lord Ruler wished to make required not only the sacrifice of 8 mistings and 1 mistborn or (less likely) Seer, but also 1 Feruchemist for the use of Feruchemical gold. Inquisitors are not immortal, and thus must periodically be replaced, and those pewter spikes needed to come from somewhere. As such, it follows that buried somewhere in the breeding program, there must have been some desire to create a small number of Feruchemists specifically to be sacrificed to make Inquisitors. A particularly morbid part of me actually wonders if infiltrations like Tindwyl's of the breeding program were known about all along and secretly allowed to happen, her offspring tracked and watched for any manifestation of Feruchemy so they could be taken for sacrifice. 

Yeah this make sense actually

[Subvisual Haze]

I think they reuse the spikes quite a bit though for inquisitors.  In fact I imagine the Lord Ruler prefers his inquisitors to have powers that while still impressive, do not make them nearly immortal.  I imagine having fresh spikes for allomancy is more important as those seem more directly practical to their job (seeking, pushing, pulling, etc.).  Also there are a fair amount of skaa mistings to eliminate and provide fresh spikes.  The feruchemy spikes like gold will still "do the job", even in a diluted state though.  A little bit of gold from a few generations back can still accomplish impressive healing, especially in combination with allomantic pewter.  In fact that might explain why the inquisitors need to rest so often, inefficient or low capacity health storage as a result of hand-me-down gold spikes.

[Tglassy]

Not to raise the dead, but we do know they reused Spikes, as they kept them in buckets of blood in order to preserve their power when an Inquisitor died.  Same with Koloss, they reused spikes to make more.  

[Karger]

6 hours ago, Tglassy said:

Not to raise the dead, but we do know they reused Spikes, as they kept them in buckets of blood in order to preserve their power when an Inquisitor died.  Same with Koloss, they reused spikes to make more.  

But they could easily have wanted or need more inquisitors over time as the empire's population grew.  Also what if something happened to a large number of inquisitors?  You would want a backup supply of spikes just in case the future of your species is at stake. 

Edited March 27, 2019 by Karger