Saodar

Elantrian worldhopping

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From my understanding, every Cosmere magic system has a way to access the cognitive realm and worldhop. My question is then, do Elantrians do this with a variant of Aon Tia? Or is that bound by using distances as we see in the book - since you can't walk to the cognitive realm, could you travel there by Aon?

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Aons most likely have a way to create an entertance to the cognitive realm. I specify an entertance, because technically all aons are little portals to the cognitive realm that focus the Dor as it pours out. Considering that fact, it is likely possible to modify an aon such that it stays open and is in such a condition that physical matter could pass through. That being said, Sel's cognitive realm isn't exactly a great place to be, and is slightly less than habitable.

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6 minutes ago, HSuperLee said:

Aons most likely have a way to create an entertance to the cognitive realm. I specify an entertance, because technically all aons are little portals to the cognitive realm that focus the Dor as it pours out. Considering that fact, it is likely possible to modify an aon such that it stays open and is in such a condition that physical matter could pass through. That being said, Sel's cognitive realm isn't exactly a great place to be, and is slightly less than habitable.

So you could use the aon itself to act as a physical door into the cognitive realm? This would be dangerous, of course

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10 minutes ago, Saodar said:

So you could use the aon itself to act as a physical door into the cognitive realm? This would be dangerous, of course

I'm being somewhat hypothetical. I'm not saying you could literally step through an aon into the cognitive realm. I'm just saying that based on the principles of how aons work, it's not a stretch to imagine modifying aons to work in such a way. I'm not sure it would be simple, but I have no doubt it's possible

Secret History Spoiler:

Spoiler

After all, some how the Ire got in there. Though then again, they do have a perpendicar near Elantris.

 

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On 12/12/2018 at 7:42 PM, Saodar said:

From my understanding, every Cosmere magic system has a way to access the cognitive realm and worldhop. My question is then, do Elantrians do this with a variant of Aon Tia? Or is that bound by using distances as we see in the book - since you can't walk to the cognitive realm, could you travel there by Aon?

Most magic systems do not have a way to directly access the Cognitive Realm.  In fact, I believe Roshar is the only ones who have a confirmed method (the Surge of Transportation).  Selish magic can probably manage it, because it seems like they can program the Dor to do basically anything.  

The majority of Worldhopping happens via Perpendicularities (i.e. Shardpools).  These are places where so much Investiture is collected that it "pierces" between the Realms, allowing access between them. 

On Scadrial (Mistborn spoilers):

Spoiler

were the Pits of Hathsin and the Well of Ascension.  The Pits were primarily used; however, after Kelsier destroying them, Hoid had to use the Well.  

On Sel:

Spoiler

the Pool where Raoden went is Devotion's perpendicularity

On Roshar:

Spoiler

Cultivation's Perpendicularity is in the Horneater Peaks.  Rock tells of a legend of Hoid emerging from it.  

Edited by Scion of the Mists
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12 minutes ago, Scion of the Mists said:

Most magic systems do not have a way to directly access the Cognitive Realm.  In fact, I believe Roshar is the only ones who have a confirmed method (the Surge of Transportation).  Selish magic can probably manage it, because it seems like they can program the Dor to do basically anything.  

The majority of Worldhopping happens via Perpendicularities (i.e. Shardpools).  These are places where so much Investiture is collected that it "pierces" between the Realms, allowing access between them.

 

I might be wrong, but I thought I read somewhere that any magic system could do it, just some of them we've never seen it happen/don't know how it would work. Again, I could be totally wrong

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As I see it there would be two ways an elantrian could wourld-hop. They could use the travel Aon, which would be a one way trip, because they would be to far from elantris to use it again. Or they could some how use the spirit aon to enter the cognitive realm.

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I'm surprised nobody's talking about how a Mistborn would world-hop using only the magic systems. The only times it has happened are when they've burned so much metal that they Ascend.

Not every magic system inherently has methods of worldhopping. Illusions and teleportation seem to be some of the rarest in the Cosmere, with only 2 or 3 magic systems that have been explored in depth manifesting either.

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Considering all the varied and complex stuff that Elantran magic is capable of I see no reason why they can't world-hop via the spiritual realm skirting the CR and all its problems in the Selish system.

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55 minutes ago, Karger said:

Considering all the varied and complex stuff that Elantran magic is capable of I see no reason why they can't world-hop via the spiritual realm skirting the CR and all its problems in the Selish system.

Possible sure. I wouldn't want to attempt it though. We've seen the way that AonDor teleport. You specify exact direction and distance. 

Failure in either will place you in the dead of space, with no access to the localized Dor back on Sel to save you. 

Even if you, by some miracle, succeed, its a one way trip. 

No thank you. 

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28 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Possible sure. I wouldn't want to attempt it though. We've seen the way that AonDor teleport. You specify exact direction and distance. 

Failure in either will place you in the dead of space, with no access to the localized Dor back on Sel to save you. 

Even if you, by some miracle, succeed, its a one way trip. 

No thank you. 

You need a way of devising the correct location (again hardly an impossible task planetary motions are quite predictable with Newtonian mathematics) and someone back on Sel to yank you back when necessary or to maintain some kind of tube that feeds your Dor connection.  This project would be difficult but by no means impossible.

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It would probably be a lot safer to transition to the Cognitive and then use Aon Tia from that side. You don't have to worry about a third dimension for modifier purposes, you don't have nearly as many factors to keep track of because you don't need to know relative positions of the planets (just what direction your destintion is in) and if you screw up you're looking at a long walk back but it's not going to be instantly fatal like screwing up in the Physical Realm where you're very likely to end up in the vacuum of space. Well, unless the world you're trying to reach has a weird subastral you aren't prepared for.

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28 minutes ago, Weltall said:

It would probably be a lot safer to transition to the Cognitive and then use Aon Tia from that side. You don't have to worry about a third dimension for modifier purposes, you don't have nearly as many factors to keep track of because you don't need to know relative positions of the planets (just what direction your destintion is in) and if you screw up you're looking at a long walk back but it's not going to be instantly fatal like screwing up in the Physical Realm where you're very likely to end up in the vacuum of space. Well, unless the world you're trying to reach has a weird subastral you aren't prepared for.

I'm actually very curious if, with the way the Dor powers selish magics generally, if they're even usable in the Cognitive. 

They probably are, but with the way Aons especially function, I find it an interesting question. 

Cause Sel is just weird. 

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12 minutes ago, Calderis said:

I'm actually very curious if, with the way the Dor powers selish magics generally, if they're even usable in the Cognitive. 

They probably are, but with the way Aons especially function, I find it an interesting question. 

Cause Sel is just weird. 

I think it'd be able to be used, but there would probably be some...issues...with the Dor's plasma swirling around you like the Scadrian mists.

Mmmmm, crispy Elantrian.

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Isn't the CR on Sel super dangerous?  I would prefer not going there and instead working on some calculus homework thank you.

Edited by Karger
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So I readily acknowledge there is a whooooole lot of grey area in here, but I think there could be a way to transition to the cognitive realm without your native powers having to be geared towards it or have to use a perpendicularity. Spoilers for white sand below:

 

Spoiler

sand masters at least in this point in time do not seem to have any teleportation powers, and Khriss makes no mention of such regarding the darksiders abilities, yet the Taldain perpendicularity is located on the sun. We know for a fact that Khriss and Baon have been off planet. Unless Autonomy decided to move the perp to the planet for reasons brought up later in the novel, or either magic system suddenly develops a means to teleport, then there seems to me that there has to be a way for Khriss and Boan to transition without a magic system, or a perpendicularity. The only other alternative I can think of, is if there is a third hidden magic system present, or a visitor from another world popped by and left with them. 

 

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2 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

Reveal hidden contents

Same spoilers

Spoiler

The perpendicularity is where?

 

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10 minutes ago, Karger said:

Same spoilers

  Reveal hidden contents

The perpendicularity is where?

 

Will need to remember the proper wording to locate the WoB, but it is confirmed that:

 

Spoiler

Autonomy's perpendicularity is located on Taldain's sun

 

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5 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

Will need to remember the proper wording to locate the WoB, but it is confirmed that:

 

  Hide contents

Autonomy's perpendicularity is located on Taldain's sun

 

Also spoilers for White Sand below:

Spoiler

This is just something I figured, not based on any WoBs or something said in the books, but I always figured we would find out that the perpendicularity was around that sacred area where the Sand Masters do their initiations and advancements, why else would it be sacred? It does seem that Sand Mastery is genetic and it would make sense that the earliest Sand Masters got their powers from a shardpool similar to how Allomancy was given to the noble society of the Final Empire. That would explain why that religion who's name I can't quite remember claims that their God hates Sand Masters, because they took some of his(though really her) body and why Darksiders can't do Sand Mastery at all. 

 

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@Pathfinder

White sand stuff

Spoiler

Taldains sun being invested and a source of Investiture for the planet does not mean there cannot be a perpendicularity elsewhere. 

I am not aware of any confirmation of a perpendicularity location for Taldain. Either on lightside, darkside, or the suns. 

 

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19 minutes ago, Calderis said:

White sand stuff

Thanks

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9 hours ago, Calderis said:

@Pathfinder

White sand stuff

  Reveal hidden contents

Taldains sun being invested and a source of Investiture for the planet does not mean there cannot be a perpendicularity elsewhere. 

I am not aware of any confirmation of a perpendicularity location for Taldain. Either on lightside, darkside, or the suns. 

 

I could have sworn there was explicit confirmation but that the wording was a bit wonky. I will keep on digging, but until I find it, I guess the one I was thinking of is included in the spoiler below which coincides with your statement. 

 

Spoiler


swieczq

Would someone with enough knowledge be able to use Autonomy’s Investiture if Taldain’s star was seen from his world?

Brandon Sanderson

So I’m on a world and I see Taldain’s star, what you're asking if someone could use the Investiture? Oh, OK I see. Yeah yeah yeah yeah. That’s good! You stumped me. I haven’t gotten that question before. I would say yes, if the light particles are reaching you. I mean technically you could use the light from one of those stars to power a solar sail so…

 

 

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13 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

I could have sworn there was explicit confirmation but that the wording was a bit wonky. I will keep on digging, but until I find it, I guess the one I was thinking of is included in the spoiler below which coincides with your statement. 

That is still not confirmation.

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10 hours ago, Karger said:

That is still not confirmation.

it is not confirmation of the location of the perpendicularity, which is what I admitted by stating it coincides with Calderis's statement. I could have sworn there was a WoB that explicitly states the location of the perpendicularity, but as I have had trouble locating it, till such a time that I locate it, I was saying the WoB I was probably thinking of was the one that stated where the investiture is sourced, which as Calderis said, does not necessarily mean it is the location of the perpendicularity. Thought my last post said that pretty clearly, but hopefully this further clarified things. 

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