Jace21 Posted December 11, 2018 Report Share Posted December 11, 2018 48 minutes ago, Calderis said: Am I the only one who sees Endowment in a negatively light Shardwise? Yes, it's benevolent, but it also requires giving of it's subjects. Awakening can't exist without legions of drabs, condemned to near perpetual sickness and depression. For every "gift" there is a cost. Endowment doesn't do that though, she gives everyone a breath and the returned a Divine Breath, that's all. Since breath transfer must be voluntary, I couldn't be made to give up my breath, and I would have the chance to be an awakener by purchasing breath from those who would rather have the money. Sure a bad system may develop but that could be said about anywhere or any Shard. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted December 11, 2018 Report Share Posted December 11, 2018 20 minutes ago, Ookla the Mind Sculptor said: Endowment doesn't do that though, she gives everyone a breath and the returned a Divine Breath, that's all. Since breath transfer must be voluntary, I couldn't be made to give up my breath, and I would have the chance to be an awakener by purchasing breath from those who would rather have the money. Sure a bad system may develop but that could be said about anywhere or any Shard. "Voluntary" is a subjective term here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel Inquisitive Posted December 11, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2018 26 minutes ago, Calderis said: "Voluntary" is a subjective term here. I do have to agree with that.... After all doesn't Warbreaker start with someone being tortured for their breath? (I feel like there's a joke just dying to be made...) But then again.... That's people. No matter how good of a shard they get there will still be crime and terrible atrocities committed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ripheus23 Posted December 11, 2018 Report Share Posted December 11, 2018 How can I be alone with my Ruin vote Isn't anyone else morbid or cynical enough to join me?!?!?! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel Inquisitive Posted December 11, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2018 (edited) As much fun as it would be to have Ruin as god..... I think I'll pass..... A vote for Ruin is a vote for rot! Vote Endowment for peace, liberty, and the pursuit of breath! (I'm counting on you @Ripheus23to find an appropriate poster) Edited December 11, 2018 by Steel Inqusitive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace21 Posted December 11, 2018 Report Share Posted December 11, 2018 1 hour ago, Calderis said: "Voluntary" is a subjective term here. 1 hour ago, Steel Inqusitive said: I do have to agree with that.... After all doesn't Warbreaker start with someone being tortured for their breath? (I feel like there's a joke just dying to be made...) But then again.... That's people. No matter how good of a shard they get there will still be crime and terrible atrocities committed. This last paragraph is the point I want to make. Hallandren's political system is a mess, but Endowment is not to blame. If anything Breath means everyone has the potential to use the magic system, unlike Scadrial where, before recent advancements, some people were never going to be able to have magic. You could even argue that torture is an exception. We have no evidence Hallandren tortures anyone to get their breath before they die, other than convicted criminals who had already earned the death penalty. Whether or not the system is just, definitely needs to be asked. But Endowment seems to be benevolent, even if humans aren't. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted December 11, 2018 Report Share Posted December 11, 2018 Which wasn't my point in the slightest. We know of a single command that can be accomplished with only one breath, and that took research to discover. The potential for anyone to use the magic is reliant on hundreds of others depriving themselves of health and longevity and mental fortitude. It is an intrinsic part of the magic of Endowment itself that in order to become powerful, others must give to you at cost to themselves, voluntary or otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace21 Posted December 11, 2018 Report Share Posted December 11, 2018 Absolutely, outside of Lifeless, the magic requires more breath, on that we agree. But with all due respect that did not look like the point you were making. Quote "Voluntary" is a subjective term here. That sounded more like you were questioning whether breath is given up voluntarily, which outside of Vahr's torture, it is. I see no reason to see Endowment in a "negative light" when people are free to not participate if they don't want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted December 11, 2018 Report Share Posted December 11, 2018 Just now, Ookla the Mind Sculptor said: Absolutely, outside of Lifeless, the magic requires more breath, on that we agree. But with all due respect that did not look like the point you were making. That sounded more like you were questioning whether breath is given up voluntarily, which outside of Vahr's torture, it is. I see no reason to see Endowment in a "negative light" when people are free to not participate if they don't want to. I meant my original point. That was not my first post about Endowment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace21 Posted December 11, 2018 Report Share Posted December 11, 2018 5 minutes ago, Calderis said: I meant my original point. That was not my first post about Endowment. The first one was about seeing Endowment in a negative light wasn't it, like I mentioned at the end of my post? I apologise if I missed one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigmikey357 Posted December 11, 2018 Report Share Posted December 11, 2018 (edited) An argument can be made against Endowment. All access means a larger percentage of humans can potentially do bad things with magic, much like if everyone was born with a piece of a hydrogen bomb. And as we all know, humans are the worst. A point in Endowment's favor, there's more people available to potentially oppose one crazy despot. It's harder for someone like Miles Hundredlives or the Set to dominate or rain down havoc on an Endowment-run system than one where the 1% have magic like Sel. Of course Vasher and 4 other Scholars may have something to say about that. As for my pick, I have to think about it. Are we asking which system would be more pleasant to live in? Or are we asking which planet we'd like to have magic on? Remember Shardic Intents relate to how one acquires magic. For pleasant environments obviously Ruin and Odium are out because, you know, a planet run by them alone gets broken and discarded before civilization gets started. I'm not picking Harmony either; Sazed plays favorites and I'm really unsure of his job performance so far. As long as I'm not pissing her off, Culti is probably the best bet. Whatever she makes of a place, it won't be boring. For magic, an Aona run world probably gets a better shake than most. A magic based on love seems good. Humanity being the worst means anything can be corrupted though. Edited December 11, 2018 by Bigmikey357 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ripheus23 Posted December 11, 2018 Report Share Posted December 11, 2018 8 hours ago, Steel Inqusitive said: (I'm counting on you @Ripheus23to find an appropriate poster) Assuming that Edgli is a dragon... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel Inquisitive Posted December 11, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2018 Perfect I wasn't thinking about the magic systems too much at first.... I was more focused on the one that wouldn't destroy my way of life. Or my planet for that matter! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+hwiles Posted December 11, 2018 Report Share Posted December 11, 2018 Why is no one picking Ambition? I don't know what kind of magic system he/she would've come up with, but a planet of Ambition is bound to be loaded with opportunities for advancement and a mass producer of worldhoppers to carry their lord's will to the far reaches of the Cosmere. Being a worldhopper gives one the best chance of accumulating access to multiple magic systems and frankly I think Ambition would have created the most had it not been for the untimely death...if I'm hedging my bets, that's the way I'd have to go, Harmony just doesnt create enough metallic arts users or I'd go with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ripheus23 Posted December 11, 2018 Report Share Posted December 11, 2018 26 minutes ago, hwiles said: Why is no one picking Ambition? I don't know what kind of magic system he/she would've come up with, but a planet of Ambition is bound to be loaded with opportunities for advancement and a mass producer of worldhoppers to carry their lord's will to the far reaches of the Cosmere. Since all we have to go off is the Threnodite system, I suppose we don't want to wither, is what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigmikey357 Posted December 11, 2018 Report Share Posted December 11, 2018 To be fair to Autonomy, the happenings in the Threnodite system weren't entirely her fault as she was dying at the time of Investment. As we've seen from Honor, leaky Investiture from dying Shards causes outsize problems for both planetary inhabitants and their magic users. On the other hand, Uli Da was a Sho-Del. Not sure she'd have been inclined to make a paradise planet for homo sap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray to Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 22 hours ago, Zodiac said: I'm almost positive that Tanavast was going crazy because of his shard I think eventually all the Shards will go crazy with their Intent. Honor just happened to go insane faster because he was dying like Leras Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantus Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 Im definitely with @Calderis that Endowment is a bad choice for several reasons: By WOB she is one of the more erratic shards (Here and Here). The her interpretation of Endowment seems to be a very Sink-or-Swim mentality, casting her as a more hand-off Watchmaker sort of God (as compared to the Lawful-Good Paladin god that is Honor, or the Guiding Hand style of Cultivation). And frankly, to me her letter makes her sound like a stereotypical arrogant royal who simply doesnt care about anything outside her own little world, and nothing what what she sees as the lesser people (ie mortals). I dont think Edgli is a very nice person, though that is likely her more than the Shard's inante Intent. Of the known Shards, Id go for Cultivation first, Devotion second, and Preservation or Ambition tied for third (both have potential drawbacks but preservation isnt going to get too uppity on their own, while Ambition at least has an innate desire to Improve upon things (the Self, mostly). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ripheus23 Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 RUIN'S CAMPAIGN SLOGAN Would you like to destroy some everything today? Platform: 0% population growth. Privatized medicine. No vaccines. Capital punishment for all crimes OR Purge Day (or both). Increased supply of fuel to CERN. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weltall Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 52 minutes ago, Quantus said: Im definitely with @Calderis that Endowment is a bad choice for several reasons: By WOB she is one of the more erratic shards (Here and Here). The her interpretation of Endowment seems to be a very Sink-or-Swim mentality, casting her as a more hand-off Watchmaker sort of God (as compared to the Lawful-Good Paladin god that is Honor, or the Guiding Hand style of Cultivation). Given that the premise of the topic was to pick a Shard without considering the Vessel, facts like Edgli not being the most consistent about picking who Returns and having a hands-off attitude towards the rest of the Cosmere are kind of beside the point. And for my part, I'm very leery of Cultivation. Sure, she's a Shard that plans ahead and she's currently doing 'good' things but that Shard left to its own devices could very easily wind up becoming a danger to the current inhabitants of a world if whoever is holding the Shard decides it's time to nurture something else. Say, a promising new species that wipes out a lot of whatever was there before, or microorganisms that do the same thing. I take everything Odium says with a big heaping spoonful of salt but I don't think he's completely lying when he tells Dalinar that Cultivation's idea of what's best for Roshar in the long term might not be in humanity's best interest. 19 hours ago, Ookla the Gray said: I think eventually all the Shards will go crazy with their Intent. Honor just happened to go insane faster because he was dying like Leras We know there are Vessels that are very good at resisting the influence of their Shard, just as there are some (like Ati) who eventually succumb to it completely. I don't think we can say that all of the Vessels will lose themselves to their intent just because some did. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantus Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 47 minutes ago, Ookla the Gralsritter said: Given that the premise of the topic was to pick a Shard without considering the Vessel, facts like Edgli not being the most consistent about picking who Returns and having a hands-off attitude towards the rest of the Cosmere are kind of beside the point. Edgli consistency (or lack thereof) may be more her than the Shardic Intent, but I tend to think the Hand-off attitude is relatively fundamental to the Intent of Endowment (insofar as ANYTHING is innate to the Intent as opposed to the Vessel's Interpretation of said Intent). Endowment is at it's core about a transfer of Power/Value, with all the ownership and responsibility going with it, and ideally with few to no Strings attached. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigmikey357 Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 All Vessels will succomb to the Shard and its Intent given an infinite time to work. While some Vessels are able to hold themselves seperate from their Shards for a time and some are better at it than others, eventually all will succumb to the constant pressure of the Shardic soul alterations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bxcnch Posted October 24, 2019 Report Share Posted October 24, 2019 On 12/11/2018 at 3:05 AM, Calderis said: Am I the only one who sees Endowment in a negatively light Shardwise? Well, we also have a letter from Endowment that can certainly tell us more about her/its personality: Dearest Cephandrius, I received your communication, of course. I noticed its arrival immediately, just as I noticed your many intrusions into my land. You think yourself so clever, but my eyes are not those of some petty noble, to be clouded by a false nose and some dirt on the cheeks. You mustn't worry yourself about Rayse. It is a pity about Aona and Skai, but they were foolish--violating our pact from the very beginning. Your skills are admirable, but you are merely a man. You had your chance to be more, and refused it. No good can come of two Shards settling in one location. It was agreed that we would not interfere with one another, and it disappoints me that so few of the Shards have kept to this original agreement. As for Uli Da, it was obvious from the outset that she was going to be a problem. Good riddance. Regardless, this is not your concern. You turned your back on divinity. If Rayse becomes an issue, he will be dealt with. And so will you. ...doesn't sound like a very friendly shard to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NameIess Posted October 25, 2019 Report Share Posted October 25, 2019 I would choose Honor, because I want to be a Windrunner. Cultivation second, because she seems like she would be reasonable and not openly interfering, giving everything a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiberty Posted October 25, 2019 Report Share Posted October 25, 2019 (edited) On 12/10/2018 at 11:49 AM, HSuperLee said: Oh, and I'd go with Honor. But I'm also the guy who actually likes Skybreakers ChickenLiberty supports this message. Edited October 25, 2019 by ChickenLiberty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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