Turtle373

Shallan joins team Odium?

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Yesterday my friend and I were talking about people with multiple personality disorder and all the weird stuff that can come with it, and so I was thinking about it last night and I thought what would happen if Shallan or Veil or Radiant joined Odium and the other two didn't. They would be able to do so much harm, sabotage plans, a really really good spy, or you either get a radiant or basically incapacitate one because no one would be able to trust them, and they wouldn't really be able to trust themselves. I feel like Veil would be the most likely because of her interactions with the ghostbloods, plus her personality just seems to fit with Odium for some reason. So what do you guys think about it?

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@turtle373 So, Shallan doesn’t really have multiple personality disorder or anything like that. She is just using Lightweaving, taking something that most people do, instinctively changing how we act around certain people to make ourselves better, and acting as a new person. Veil and Radiant are still Shallan, even if she doesn’t want to admit it. So I don’t think that one of them could switch to team Odium without the others knowing. 

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3 hours ago, Ookla-Shephir said:

@turtle373 So, Shallan doesn’t really have multiple personality disorder or anything like that. She is just using Lightweaving, taking something that most people do, instinctively changing how we act around certain people to make ourselves better, and acting as a new person. Veil and Radiant are still Shallan, even if she doesn’t want to admit it. So I don’t think that one of them could switch to team Odium without the others knowing. 

Yeah I agree with this. Shallan doesn't have exactly DID. She remembers the actions each of her alternates takes, and she, to some degree, can choose when to manifest them.

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Like this: if any main character joins Odium, it will be Shallan. I am not that certain it will happen though. 

Veil and Radiant turning is another thing though. If it happened, I think Shallan would either have to get rid of them, or turn as well. There is no middle ground there.

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Yeah I know it's really really unlikely of happening I just thought it was interesting to think about 

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10 hours ago, turtle373 said:

Yeah I know it's really really unlikely of happening I just thought it was interesting to think about 

I agree. I have been considering the option myself. And I can defenitely see it happen (unlike Dalinar or Szeth, who I think are 100% Honor). Odium could tempt Shallan by taking her pain, like he did with Amaram, and tried to do with Dalinar. 

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I think in either SA 4 or 5 we're going to see a major spren death via broken oath or Nightblood.

Right now our major spren characters are Syl, Pattern and the Stormfather.  I can't imagine the Stormfather dying, and I don't think it would impact Dalinar like Kaladin or Shallan would be if they lost their Spren.

Syl and Kaladin already went down the 'losing the bond' route, and those two are so intertwined I can't see Syl dying while Kaladin lives.

 

Which leaves Pattern and Shallan.  Not only does Pattern semi-frequently reference Shallan hating him/being killed, Shallan's multiple personalities (or whatever you want to call it,) could certainly lead to some Odium shenanigans.  If Pattern dies, especially if it's because of something Shallan did, I can absolutely see her (after realizing what she has done, even if she thought it was the right decision at the time,) turning to less savory ways to either bring Pattern back or reinstitute a bond to get her powers back.

Which would (potentially) get her to Odium.

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1 hour ago, What's a Seawolf? said:

I think in either SA 4 or 5 we're going to see a major spren death via broken oath or Nightblood.

Right now our major spren characters are Syl, Pattern and the Stormfather.  I can't imagine the Stormfather dying, and I don't think it would impact Dalinar like Kaladin or Shallan would be if they lost their Spren.

Syl and Kaladin already went down the 'losing the bond' route, and those two are so intertwined I can't see Syl dying while Kaladin lives.

 

Which leaves Pattern and Shallan.  Not only does Pattern semi-frequently reference Shallan hating him/being killed, Shallan's multiple personalities (or whatever you want to call it,) could certainly lead to some Odium shenanigans.  If Pattern dies, especially if it's because of something Shallan did, I can absolutely see her (after realizing what she has done, even if she thought it was the right decision at the time,) turning to less savory ways to either bring Pattern back or reinstitute a bond to get her powers back.

Which would (potentially) get her to Odium.

Pattern has already been killed by Shallan,.

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13 minutes ago, MountainKing said:

Pattern has already been killed by Shallan,.

I think that Pattern almost died because of her...

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35 minutes ago, MountainKing said:

No he died.

He didn't quite die.

Quote

Questioner (paraphrased)

Where was Pattern before Shallan drew him?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

He was around. The bonding process had started when Shallan was young but then she pushed him away and he withdrew mostly to the Cognitive Realm until the bonding was started again and she pulled him fully into the Physical when she drew him.

source

 

Quote

Kythis

How did Pattern actually become a shardblade even though he hadn't been fully pulled into the physical realm?

Brandon Sanderson

He had been pulled into the physical realm before when Shallan was younger, and she almost broke her bond.  And in so doing . . . 

Kythis

But he didn't go mad.

Brandon Sanderson

She didn't completely break the bond.  She didn't reject him completely.  But it was dangerous there for a while.  

source

 

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Shallan is out of her mind. She’s a playing a very dangerous game, to be drowned is her personality. I don’t know if she will rude to Odium but I don’t discard it.

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I think Shallan needs to be very, very careful about losing herself to an Identify more than she initially desired.

In OB, she pretends to be Brightlady Merchant Haughtypants (name escapes me) to steal a supply of food from her.  At one point, a bit too deep in her role, Shallan considers killing her and stepping into her role.  Shallan shakes herself out of it and is a bit freaked out by that line of thought.

But I think that if she took on Identity that was detrimental to her own mental health, like pretending to be a vicious serial killer or a madwoman, she may have a harder time shaking off the Identity and especially recovering from it, depending on her actions while in that Identity.  It can be liberating to know you are capable of more than what you thought, but it can also be horrifying. 

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I totally agree with this. Shallan is far more likely to let it get out of control before she does anything about it. 

"I think in either SA 4 or 5 we're going to see a major spren death via broken oath or Nightblood.

Right now our major spren characters are Syl, Pattern and the Stormfather.  I can't imagine the Stormfather dying, and I don't think it would impact Dalinar like Kaladin or Shallan would be if they lost their Spren."

   -What's a SeaWolf

That said I think the storm father will die before it is over, he will go back to his "pre-honors' death state" but it won't be Dalinor's fault. Odium will try to kill him directly, like in Dalinor's visions with Odium. 

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On 2018-12-07 at 3:27 PM, What's a Seawolf? said:

I think in either SA 4 or 5 we're going to see a major spren death via broken oath or Nightblood.

Right now our major spren characters are Syl, Pattern and the Stormfather.  I can't imagine the Stormfather dying, and I don't think it would impact Dalinar like Kaladin or Shallan would be if they lost their Spren.

Syl and Kaladin already went down the 'losing the bond' route, and those two are so intertwined I can't see Syl dying while Kaladin lives.

 

Which leaves Pattern and Shallan.  Not only does Pattern semi-frequently reference Shallan hating him/being killed, Shallan's multiple personalities (or whatever you want to call it,) could certainly lead to some Odium shenanigans.  If Pattern dies, especially if it's because of something Shallan did, I can absolutely see her (after realizing what she has done, even if she thought it was the right decision at the time,) turning to less savory ways to either bring Pattern back or reinstitute a bond to get her powers back.

Which would (potentially) get her to Odium.

If Pattern dies, I will be broken. Kill Syl instead. Or Stormfather. Or Glys. Litterally any spren. Just don’t touch Pattern.

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16 hours ago, Toaster Retribution said:

If Pattern dies, I will be broken. Kill Syl instead. Or Stormfather. Or Glys. Litterally any spren. Just don’t touch Pattern.

You monster leave Syl alone. Kill Odium instead he's a very big spren from the Rosharan pov

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19 minutes ago, goody153 said:

You monster leave Syl alone. Kill Odium instead he's a very big spren from the Rosharan pov

I dont like Syl.

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Kill anybody except Timbre. Everybody loves Timbre:wub:.

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How about we don’t kill any spren?

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if we kill any spren lets kill Malata's

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17 minutes ago, Turtle373 said:

if we kill any spren lets kill Malata's

But I like Spark. Even though they’re with the Diagram, they’re so cool.

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Killing the Stormfather kind of means killing everything else. 

Quote

Narkac

Where does the Stormlight in highstorms come from? Is there like a "rain cycle", but for the Stormlight?

Brandon Sanderson

The Stormlight in the highstorm is transferred from the Spiritual realm through the Stormfather into the highstorm.

source

No Stormfather means no stormlight. 

No stormlight means no powers, so a fairly immediate death for our heroes... And then there's the whole ecological collapse issue. 

Let's not do that. 

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1 hour ago, StrikerEZ said:

But I like Spark. Even though they’re with the Diagram, they’re so cool.

we know pretty much nothing about spark except that they want vengeance on all the other spren, so I'd rather he die than get vengeance 

44 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Killing the Stormfather kind of means killing everything else. 

No Stormfather means no stormlight. 

No stormlight means no powers, so a fairly immediate death for our heroes... And then there's the whole ecological collapse issue. 

Let's not do that. 

yeah that's pretty bad, would be an interesting story though, everyone loses their powers but they still have to fight a desolation 

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3 hours ago, Turtle373 said:

we know pretty much nothing about spark except that they want vengeance on all the other spren, so I'd rather he die than get vengeance 

Well, I just went back and reread the part you’re talking about, and the way it reads, not just the vengeance part, but what comes before it as well, it sounds like Spark wants vengeance on the humans, not the spren. If anything she (Spark is a girl) is more on the side of the spren, even those who are bonding humans.

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34 minutes ago, StrikerEZ said:

Well, I just went back and reread the part you’re talking about, and the way it reads, not just the vengeance part, but what comes before it as well, it sounds like Spark wants vengeance on the humans, not the spren. If anything she (Spark is a girl) is more on the side of the spren, even those who are bonding humans.

yeah well that's still vengeance against people I like sooooo, she (whoops) is still my top candidate for a spren dying, she sounds like she's got an interesting personality, but I've got priorities

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