Kelsier is a Shard of Adonalsium(?)

[Calderis]

And I doubt most would be aware of Kel at all. 

[Fanghur Rahl]

Honestly, I don’t know how else to describe it other than ‘physically’; we just don’t have vocabulary adequate for it.

[RShara]

Agree to disagree on the matter. And agree completely with the lack of a good way to describe it.

[scudalarm]

As much as I like Kelsier, I do not want him to be a Shard, he was fun as a gang leader in TFE, He was a fun character when he was traveling to the Ire stronghold in Secret History.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that Kelsier being a God type character does not fit him.

[Fanghur Rahl]

On 2018-12-10 at 5:26 PM, scudalarm said:

As much as I like Kelsier, I do not want him to be a Shard, he was fun as a gang leader in TFE, He was a fun character when he was traveling to the Ire stronghold in Secret History.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that Kelsier being a God type character does not fit him.

Why not? He already has a bit of a god complex. lol.

[goody153]

16 hours ago, Fanghur Rahl said:

Why not? He already has a bit of a god complex. lol.

It's better fit for characters who don't have god complex but actually do the god thing better than the actual god wannabe's(hello Vin or actually Ati if Hoid was right). Kelsier might be impressive on alot of aspects but he's thankfully not a Mary Sue character(no matter what medium of storytelling i find it hard to be impressed by a character good at everything) and actually sucks at other stuff

Besides we already have god wannabe's who became god that are actually filling the role. If Kelsier suddenly becomes shard again he will feel like one of those manga/anime characters who are too overpowered and too "wise" that it'll just drop the quality for sure. I don't even Sanderson is safe from quality drop when it comes to overapplication of Mary Sue characters.

Also remember how rehashed story-lines are bad on the same characters if it was to accomplish the same thing(specific situations make this acceptable)

Tbh i'm already having problems with Hoid when it comes to that. At least he has a catch a intriguing character with lots of history and issues and isn't stronger than the actual gods so he's acceptable. 

Edited December 12, 2018 by goody153

[scudalarm]

9 hours ago, goody153 said:

It's better fit for characters who don't have god complex but actually do the god thing better than the actual god wannabe's(hello Vin or actually Ati if Hoid was right). Kelsier might be impressive on alot of aspects but he's thankfully not a Mary Sue character(no matter what medium of storytelling i find it hard to be impressed by a character good at everything) and actually sucks at other stuff

Besides we already have god wannabe's who became god that are actually filling the role. If Kelsier suddenly becomes shard again he will feel like one of those manga/anime characters who are too overpowered and too "wise" that it'll just drop the quality for sure. I don't even Sanderson is safe from quality drop when it comes to overapplication of Mary Sue characters.

Also remember how rehashed story-lines are bad on the same characters if it was to accomplish the same thing(specific situations make this acceptable)

Tbh i'm already having problems with Hoid when it comes to that. At least he has a catch a intriguing character with lots of history and issues and isn't stronger than the actual gods so he's acceptable. 

That is what I was trying to say.  

Also I think I do not like Kelsier's quirk, the one that he want/try to be a God in the eyes of his followers...

[Calderis]

45 minutes ago, scudalarm said:

That is what I was trying to say.  

Also I think I do not like Kelsier's quirk, the one that he want/try to be a God in the eyes of his followers...

He's a Sociopath. His ego is an intrinsic part of who he is. There's a reason that Brandon has said that Kel could easily be the villain if he'd been in a different situation. 

Frankly, I still see that as a possibility. Kelsier is an amazing character, but in many many ways he is not a good person. 

[goody153]

9 hours ago, Calderis said:

He's a Sociopath. His ego is an intrinsic part of who he is. There's a reason that Brandon has said that Kel could easily be the villain if he'd been in a different situation. 

Frankly, I still see that as a possibility. Kelsier is an amazing character, but in many many ways he is not a good person. 

Totally Agree. In another situation he could've been like Denth. That situation still could happen in the future. 

[Quantus]

On 12/12/2018 at 4:50 PM, Calderis said:

He's a Sociopath. His ego is an intrinsic part of who he is. There's a reason that Brandon has said that Kel could easily be the villain if he'd been in a different situation. 

Frankly, I still see that as a possibility. Kelsier is an amazing character, but in many many ways he is not a good person. 

If he were to go full villain, or for that matter full Shard, Im curious how Marsh would react. 

[Fanghur Rahl]

On 2018-12-12 at 6:43 AM, goody153 said:

 At least he has a catch a intriguing character with lots of history and issues and isn't stronger than the actual gods so he's acceptable. 

We think. Then again, the Shards aren’t flat-out unkillable Jack Harkness-style like Hoid is implied to be.

[goody153]

18 hours ago, Fanghur Rahl said:

We think. Then again, the Shards aren’t flat-out unkillable Jack Harkness-style like Hoid is implied to be.

Shards aren't killable by basically everything that isn't shards holders as well. So they still stay as the powerpeak of cosmere (and Sanderson likes to explore the magic system rather than just amp the strength as he says .. which is a positive to me that there won't be any manga/anime-esque low-quality power-escalation)

[Fanghur Rahl]

13 hours ago, goody153 said:

Shards aren't killable by basically everything that isn't shards holders as well. So they still stay as the powerpeak of cosmere (and Sanderson likes to explore the magic system rather than just amp the strength as he says .. which is a positive to me that there won't be any manga/anime-esque low-quality power-escalation)

Didn’t Hoid imply that even Odium would be unable to kill him though? And if even Odium can’t, then who else could?

[Calderis]

10 minutes ago, Fanghur Rahl said:

Didn’t Hoid imply that even Odium would be unable to kill him though? And if even Odium can’t, then who else could?

No. He said the opposite. 

Quote

“I will do what I can to help,” Wit said, “and for that reason, I must go. I cannot risk too much, because if he finds me, then I become nothing—a soul shredded and broken into pieces that cannot be reassembled. What I do here is more dangerous than you could ever know.”
He turned to go.
“Wit,” Dalinar called.
“Yes?”
“If who finds you?”
“The one you fight, Dalinar Kholin. The father of hatred.” Wit saluted, then jogged off.

 

[goody153]

4 hours ago, Fanghur Rahl said:

Didn’t Hoid imply that even Odium would be unable to kill him though? And if even Odium can’t, then who else could?

Eh Odium is definitely able to kill him. Even Nightblood can kill him and it is alooooooooooooot less significantly dangerous than a shard(as shards can literally fling an entire planet to the nearest star in one thought if nobody opposes them)

He wouldn't be hiding if a shard couldn't kill him. And if anybody knows more about killing or completely decimating something it is the guy who killed the shards which shouldn't even be killable

[Lightblood]

Kelsier can't be a shard as in 2nd era scadrial he is seen pierced with multiple hemalurgic spikes. Why would a shard give harmony power over him. That as well as the fact that preservation saved his (after)life and that he can't go off planet as a strong arguement against him being a shard but I like the idea. I wonder if Kelsier might be able to become an agent of Survival or if Survival will just stay hidden until late into the cosmere.

 

On 12/17/2018 at 7:25 PM, goody153 said:

Eh Odium is definitely able to kill him. Even Nightblood can kill him and it is alooooooooooooot less significantly dangerous than a shard(as shards can literally fling an entire planet to the nearest star in one thought if nobody opposes them)

He wouldn't be hiding if a shard couldn't kill him. And if anybody knows more about killing or completely decimating something it is the guy who killed the shards which shouldn't even be killable

Also Goody just letting you know that odium is afraid of nightblood. When asked about it brandon said that Nightblood could concievably kill a shard if brought into contact with its physical manifestation. This is the reason the fused are so keen to take nightblood from szeth. That and also Nightblood is just a straight up parshendi annihilator

[goody153]

On 12/18/2018 at 4:42 AM, Lightblood said:

Also Goody just letting you know that odium is afraid of nightblood. When asked about it brandon said that Nightblood could concievably kill a shard if brought into contact with its physical manifestation. This is the reason the fused are so keen to take nightblood from szeth. That and also Nightblood is just a straight up parshendi annihilator

Ehhh (out of all the wobs that i read i can definitely remember those)

It was "Odium is aware of nightblood" and "it can damage a shard with proper circumstances not even powerful enough to kill at all". 

"it can kill Odium and Odium is scared of it" is just stretching the the WoB's waaayyy too much. Idk how you ended up with that conclusions as the WoB's are very clear about it. 

Odium is only scared of Harmony and he's even more worried about Harmony than both Hoid and Dalinar which are his current problems. 

Besides even without words of brandon even logic states that a splinter is insignificant to a shard without a shard backing itself. As a shard can literally do anything a splinter could do directly and so much effectiveness conceivable. 

Edited December 19, 2018 by goody153

[Lightblood]

2 hours ago, goody153 said:

Ehhh (out of all the wobs that i read i can definitely remember those)

It was "Odium is aware of nightblood" and "it can damage a shard with proper circumstances not even powerful enough to kill at all". 

"it can kill Odium and Odium is scared of it" is just stretching the the WoB's waaayyy too much. Idk how you ended up with that conclusions as the WoB's are very clear about it. 

Odium is only scared of Harmony and he's even more worried about Harmony than both Hoid and Dalinar which are his current problems. 

Check the links. 

 

Besides even without words of brandon even logic states that a splinter is insignificant to a shard without a shard backing itself. As a shard can literally do anything a splinter could do directly and so much effectiveness conceivable. 

You are right here. I couldn't find the exact WoB so i was basing it on what I remembered. Thanks for the call out! 

I believe I was thinking about Hoid rather than Odium. To quote the coppermind,

Hoid, who is very difficult to kill,^[62] is also afraid of [Nightblood]. And in the same sentence it says the quote of "Odium is aware of Nightblood" So thats my bad. Though the part of Nightblood being a Parshendi annilahtor still stands. (though nightblood is pretty much an everybody annilahtor)

[goody153]

47 minutes ago, Lightblood said:

You are right here. I couldn't find the exact WoB so i was basing it on what I remembered. Thanks for the call out! 

I believe I was thinking about Hoid rather than Odium. To quote the coppermind,

Hoid, who is very difficult to kill,^[62] is also afraid of [Nightblood]. And in the same sentence it says the quote of "Odium is aware of Nightblood" So thats my bad. Though the part of Nightblood being a Parshendi annilahtor still stands. (though nightblood is pretty much an everybody annilahtor)

Nightblood does matter in the physical warfare as you know they have means to kill Unmade and Fused permanently. 

I think Hoid is indeed difficult to kill because you know he has too many magic on his pockets(which might mean he has alot of means to defend/recover against most rust cosmere can throw to him) he might even have multiple Cosmere healing in his pockets but not to a shard as he himself did say that if Odium catches him there's no recovering from it.