Ripheus23

Shashara and the God-Kings

16 posts in this topic

This seems like something that's probably been debated before, but in case not...

The Ars Arcanum says only the God-Kings of Hallandren are known to have reached the Heightening that allows steel to be Awakened. But Shashara had to have reached that Heightening to Awaken the steel Nightblood. Does that imply that she is somehow part of the God-King lineage? (It's been an age of my little life since I read Warbreaker so maybe I've forgotten where it explains this topic?)

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1.) Technically she is part of the god-king lineage, as she married Vasher, who gave the god-kings their breath horde, but I don't think that's the reason.

2.) I believe it says somewhere or other that most of the knowledge regarding the events before the manywar was lost, so I assume that scholars of Nalthis' investiture simply aren't aware of the five scholars and the massive amounts of breaths they held. 

3.) Even if 2.) is false, Vasher assisted in the creation of Nightblood, so even if she didn't possess enough breaths, Vasher could have lent her some.

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But Khriss is writing the AA and presumably knows about the Five Scholars and so on... So is this just her implied assertion of Shashara's place in the lineage?

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38 minutes ago, Ripheus23 said:

 

But Khriss is writing the AA and presumably knows about the Five Scholars and so on... So is this just her implied assertion of Shashara's place in the lineage?

 

In the case of Khriss I presume she's talking about the present day of Nalthis.

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the ars arcanum is what they know in-world of the magic. it's not always perfectly accurate, and it may lack obscure knowledge. for example, the tenth heightening gives the capacity to awaken mentally, but that's not mentioned in the ars arcanum.

Edited by king of nowhere
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OK but Silverlight knows about the Five Scholars, doesn't it?

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Quote

FirstSelector

I read that you had said if you had written Khriss' essay on Nalthis, it would have been more or less that she was talking about the magic, and then mention that there were scholars on this planet that were spitting distance from, like…

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, yeah.

FirstSelector

So, Vasher, and maybe some of the other ones have been off world--

Brandon Sanderson

Shashara has been, yeah.

FirstSelector

...Are they known to the people at Silverlight? Like--

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, yeah.

FirstSelector

Like does Khriss know Vasher?

Brandon Sanderson

Know Vasher is a different question than know of Vasher. But they are widely regarded as early cosmere scholars... They are pioneers of this sort of stuff. So yes.

source

@Ripheus23 Khriss and Silverlight are aware of the five scholars, but there is a possibility that Khriss is unaware of what heightening the five had managed to reach, or of some of the abilities of the greater heightenings. Actually, considering Khriss mentions rumors of other abilities of the greater heightenings, I think it likely that she was kept unaware of the Five's exact abilities or heightenings, or that she started her notetaking crusade after the Five were gone.

Edited by Wandering Investor
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basically, brandon prevented her from discovering stuff that would have been spoiler in the ars arcanum

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22 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

basically, brandon prevented her from discovering stuff that would have been spoiler in the ars arcanum

Egads, man, are you saying you read the AA before the rest of the book?!!?!?

*Shuns*

*Sprinkles holy water*

*Screams*

*Sqwak!*

Spoiler

Related image

 

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34 minutes ago, Ripheus23 said:

Egads, man, are you saying you read the AA before the rest of the book?!!?!?

*Shuns*

*Sprinkles holy water*

*Screams*

*Sqwak!*

  Hide contents

Related image

 

I don't know, I thought the ars arcanum was supposed to be a reference for people reading the book who forgot some specific thing about the magic system. So instead of having to reread it all, they could check the arcanum to find what they were confused about.

What would be the point of reading the magic system recap after you already finished the book?

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I honestly don't know what the AA's are for besides flavor. I usually read them after I finish the book, I think, maybe Elantris was an exception due to the Aons but that was about three or so years ago so I don't remember...

EDIT: Although now that I think of it, I'm having a quasi-flashback to reading the AA in Warbreaker before the rest of the book.

Edited by Ripheus23
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I mean, technically she's not wrong in that Vasher&co are the only ones known to have ever awakened it, and that one of those Scholars was most likely Peacegiver, being the Name that history remembered as the Returned that gave the cache of Breathes to found the god-kings.  It's worth noting that all Five Scholars predate the God-Kings entirely.  And while Kriss knows of Vasher and the rest because they were famous worldhoppers and pioneers, that doesnt mean she knows all the secret details of the Manywar or the fact that Kalad the Usuper, Talaxian, Peacegiver the Blessed, and Vasher the Scholar are all the same person.  Especially if, by the sound of things, that all happened long before her time.  Given that one person's role got split several ways, and as far as I know the details of both Nightblood and the Phantoms creation is a closely guarded secret,  it entirely understandable for her to not learn the real details but make the connection between those scholars and the God-king's treasure.   Frankly I it would take the trust of another scholar (ie Yesteel) for her to ahve any chance of learning that bit.  Unless she's run into Vivenna by this point. 

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I don't think that Shashara was "playing by the rules". She and Vasher had knowledge that the rest of the world will probably never know. Prior to Vasher, it took insane amounts of breath to create lifeless, instead of the way it's done now. Also, Vasher created an ARMY of awakened lifeless soldiers encased in stone which shouldn't be possible even with the wealth of breath given to the god-kings. My guess is that they found a way to awaken steel without using nearly so much breath. It's possible that they found a way to power their awakening with another type of investiture, since they had been off-world. What if they had been to Roshar and found a way to make a fabrial which transferred investiture directly to them as breath from stormlight? Sounds crazy, but who knows? But I am reasonably certain that there's no reason to believe that she would have had to hold as much breath as Peacegiver to be able to awaken nightblood. 

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on the other hand, it is also possible that during the time of war and strife most people were forced to give up their breath to the army. If we assume 50 breaths to make a skeleton lifeless, then kalad's army costed some 150000 breaths, which are easily harvestable within the population of hallandren. the dire threat of the war could be enough to justify taking the breath of so many people.

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Nightblood was also said to be created in extremely unique conditions, so it is possible that the type of breath/investiture used was something rare and hard to come by ( I am thinking something like Lerasium)

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3 hours ago, teknopathetic said:

Nightblood was also said to be created in extremely unique conditions, so it is possible that the type of breath/investiture used was something rare and hard to come by ( I am thinking something like Lerasium)

There is part of Ruin's Investiture within Nightblood, so there's that. (Confirmed by a WOB a few months ago after years of debate)

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