Scadrian Blades and Plate

[ZenBossanova]

5 hours ago, Gasper said:

I still think that summoning and dismissing is possible through creative use of nicrosil.

1, 2 & 4 can be accomplished with some combination of Scadrian and Nalthian magics. Summoning (3) is the tricky one. While I agree that a Nicrosil-mind is the most promising idea I have heard yet, the problem is that a sword starts off as a physical object, and the physical object is going to hard to store. 

[Calderis]

3 minutes ago, ZenBossanova said:

1, 2 & 4 can be accomplished with some combination of Scadrian and Nalthian magics. Summoning (3) is the tricky one. While I agree that a Nicrosil-mind is the most promising idea I have heard yet, the problem is that a sword starts off as a physical object, and the physical object is going to hard to store. 

Just look at Nightblood and Azures blade. 

I don't think Nicrosil stores investiture that's not innately a part of a spiritweb without hacks. Storing an actual physical object seems unlikely in the extreme. 

[Gasper]

1 hour ago, ZenBossanova said:

1, 2 & 4 can be accomplished with some combination of Scadrian and Nalthian magics. Summoning (3) is the tricky one. While I agree that a Nicrosil-mind is the most promising idea I have heard yet, the problem is that a sword starts off as a physical object, and the physical object is going to hard to store. 

The investure is part of the spiritweb, it just requires a nicrosil compounder to bring it out and force it into a usable shape instead of using it to power allomancy or feruchemy. The investure would become a shardblade and appear in a form like a sprenblade.

[Calderis]

15 minutes ago, Gasper said:

The investure is part of the spiritweb, it just requires a nicrosil compounder to bring it out and force it into a usable shape instead of using it to power allomancy or feruchemy. The investure would become a shardblade and appear in a form like a sprenblade.

That would be an entirely different power set than anything that's even been implied for the Metallic Arts. 

[Gasper]

1 minute ago, Calderis said:

That would be an entirely different power set than anything that's even been implied for the Metallic Arts. 

Yes and no. It would unlike anything in the physical realm, but it would work similar to how allomancy pulls investure from the spiritual realm through the metal being burned and into the physical realm effect. This works similarly, only the nicrosil metal mind acts as a focus of sorts and the user pulls the investure out into a blade or plate form.

[HSuperLee]

Just now, Gasper said:

Yes and no. It would unlike anything in the physical realm, but it would work similar to how allomancy pulls investure from the spiritual realm through the metal being burned and into the physical realm effect. This works similarly, only the nicrosil metal mind acts as a focus of sorts and the user pulls the investure out into a blade or plate form.

We have no indication nicrosil is capable of something like that.

[Gasper]

46 minutes ago, HSuperLee said:

We have no indication nicrosil is capable of something like that.

Well, we are not sure exactly what nicrosil can do. Sure, it can store investure and an ability, and we have a few WoBs describing that. But actually seeing what it can truly do has not come up yet. I highly doubt that its true purpose is to be used as a battery for the other abilities.

[HSuperLee]

7 minutes ago, Gasper said:

Well, we are not sure exactly what nicrosil can do. Sure, it can store investure and an ability, and we have a few WoBs describing that. But actually seeing what it can truly do has not come up yet. I highly doubt that its true purpose is to be used as a battery for the other abilities.

It still seems like a bit of a leap for a description of "Stores investiture" to "when tapped, acts as a focus for stored investiture in order to give it physical shape."

Edited December 9, 2018 by HSuperLee

[Jace21]

20 hours ago, HSuperLee said:

2. This depends. I've already stated that I don't think there's a way in the metalic arts to cut any material, but we certainly could have a spike sword that killed in a single blow by severing the spirit.

Nightblood has enhanced cutting too, albeit even more powerful than a Shardblade and Awakening doesn't have a method of cutting either. I am inclined to think any sufficiently invested sword will have some kind of enhanced cutting ability.

The others are workable too, I think the summoning and dismissing would prove problematic outside of Roshar though.

[ZenBossanova]

Now here is the inverse question - what magics could we use to make a Nightblood? 

Ruin powered blade could be interesting. 

[Calderis]

2 minutes ago, ZenBossanova said:

Now here is the inverse question - what magics could we use to make a Nightblood? 

Ruin powered blade could be interesting. 

But that's already Nightblood... 

Quote

Walin [PENDING REVIEW]

Does Nightblood contain any of Ruin's Investiture? Like, not atium, but...

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Yes, technically; and I'm not wiggling around that, because technically, location in the Cosmere and who belongs to what gets really weird, right? Because Ruin's Investiture is everywhere--but I'm not talking that way. I'm talking the way you actually mean it. 

source

 

[Ataraxian Wist]

Fun fact: I've been hammering on this all summer. Here are my thoughts:

We know from the Sovereign that a Cognitive Shadow can be spiked into a person. That's kind of the basis of his existence. We don't know exactly how, but I suspect you would use a copper spike, since it steals intelligence, and those with them are known to hear a specific voice and get flashes of memories that don't belong to them. I argue, then, that these memories and voices belong to the Cognitive Shadow of the Hemalurgic victim.

We also know that Burning a Hemalurgic spike "splices" it into your sDNA. We don't really know exactly what that does, either, but I'm pretty sure that, being now a part of your spiritweb, it could be spiked out again.

Using the concept being thrown around here about the correlation between Hemalurgic and Feruchemical attributesI believe it could also be stored in a Nocrosilmind, which means it could also be Compounded.

^This^ already solves the sentience problem, I think.

My theory is that you could Burn a copper spike to splice the Cognitive Shadow into your own spiritweb, then Store it in a Nicrosilmind, then Burn that Nicrosilmind and repeat the Compounding process until your nicrosil sword is way too invested for anyone's good, and also has it's own mind. Granted, the resultant "Mistblade" would probably hate your guts, but it's better than angry time bubbles.

The process could also be aided by touching another Nicroburst and creating a Synergized Investiture Circuit as you Coupound it, but that might be enough to create a Perpendicularity.

... WAIT!!!

What if making the sword its own Perpendicularity is the trick! That would certainly allow it to cut in all three Realms!

 

But seriously, what do you think?

Edited December 15, 2018 by Ookla the Palindrome

[Calderis]

1 hour ago, Ookla the Palindrome said:

We don't know exactly how

I suspect that it's whatever metal steals Connection, and it's restored his connection to a body and/or the physical realm per my speculation in this thread. 

 

1 hour ago, Ookla the Palindrome said:

I suspect you would use a copper spike, since it steals intelligence, and those with them are known to hear a specific voice and get flashes of memories that don't belong to them.

Where is this information from? 

1 hour ago, Ookla the Palindrome said:

We also know that Burning a Hemalurgic spike "splices" it into your sDNA. We don't really know exactly what that does, either, but I'm pretty sure that, being now a part of your spiritweb, it could be spiked out again.

This has been countered by more recent WoBs. 

The original, from 2011

Quote

Maru Nui

What happens when you burn a Hemalurgic spike?

Brandon Sanderson

Burning a Hemalurgic spike would have the effect of splicing your spiritual DNA to that of the person's that is in the spike, which would have some very strange consequences.

source

And the countermanding WoB from 2015

Quote

Questioner

If you burn a Hemalurgic spike, would it graft the piece of stolen soul onto your soul?

Brandon Sanderson

No, but it would have... There are some interesting effects there.

source

1 hour ago, Ookla the Palindrome said:

Improper placement, please ignore

 

 

1 hour ago, Ookla the Palindrome said:

Using the concept being thrown around here about the correlation between Hemalurgic and Feruchemical attributesI believe it could also be stored in a Nocrosilmind, which means it could also be Compounded.

I believe that this part is correct, and it's a major component of my medallion theory. 

As to the rest... I don't think that solves the sentience/sapience issue because of these two. 

Quote

Questioner

Say you have a Feruchemist who pours Identity into a metalmind. Then subsequently loses that mind, and then is later Awakened? Would that mind retain the personality of--

*Everyone laughs, Scottish man says "it's 11 o'clock at night, give the man a break!"*

Brandon Sanderson

Okay, so they store Identity—which I haven't told you what it does--

Questioner

Yep. We don't know.

Brandon Sanderson

And then you Awaken it, and then you want to know if it has the personality of the person?

Questioner

Yeah, or if it's able to communicate in any way.

Brandon Sanderson

Um, if-- how much Awakened is it? Is it Nightblood-level Awakened? Or is it just regular Awakened?

Questioner

Sure let's say Nightblood-level.

Brandon Sanderson

Nightblood-level. So it's-- so the Investiture has been granted sapience. And it's got Investiture from somebody else stuffed in it. I can foresee a scenario where that has an influence, but it's not going to be the personality of the person who stuffed it in. I can see some circumstances where they can-- where the Investiture of the object can make use of that in some way, but...

Oh boy, that was a weird one.

source

Quote

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

If someone were to create a human shape, with full articulations, made out of the four Feruchemical Spiritual metals and copper and do like a full dump into them, would it be able to... I mean, Investiture attains sapience on its own. If those were mixed with the memories in the copper would it be able to effectively become [an] android of the person who created it?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

So we got a couple of issues you have to overcome in creating this. Number one, the memories are not going to attune to the Investiture itself, they're going to be attuned to you. The Investiture as it attains sapience is gonna create its own Identity, which is then going to be a mismatch for those memories. So you would have to find a way to get those memories to work for that creation.

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

It wouldn't tie with the Identity that was *inaudible* aluminum?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

No, it would not. The other thing you were getting at there though, is that just Investing it alone, you would have to leave it alone for a long time, naturally, for it to start developing anything. And so we're looking at thousands of years, probably. There are ways to speed that process along, but just doing that and leaving it, it's gonna take a while.

source

 

[Ataraxian Wist]

1 hour ago, Calderis said:

I suspect that it's whatever metal steals Connection, and it's restored his connection to a body and/or the physical realm per my speculation in this thread. 

 

Where is this information from? 

This has been countered by more recent WoBs. 

The original, from 2011

And the countermanding WoB from 2015

 

I believe that this part is correct, and it's a major component of my medallion theory. 

As to the rest... I don't think that solves the sentience/sapience issue because of these two. 

 

So, the hearing voices and such was - I thought - found in the Treatise Metallurgic of MAG, but... Apparently I need to lose (or gain) a copper spike myself, as the actual description is

Quote

Copper spikes store intelligence and memory. They're very rarely used on humans due to the terrible dementia and frequent insanity produced as shards of a soul shred a recipient's mind.

I guess our Narrator sort of... Interpreted that a bit.

That said, I'm pretty sure MAG is canon, as it was created by Brandon, so... At least that much is correct.

Thanks for the WoBs, there was no way I was going to try to find them from mobile.

Formulating new theory now.

[Weltall]

22 minutes ago, Ookla the Palindrome said:

That said, I'm pretty sure MAG is canon, as it was created by Brandon, so... At least that much is correct.

Nope, it's not canon. The treatment of F-Nicrosil is a very obvious example of how what Brandon has later written overrules what the MAG had in place.

Quote

Questioner

The Mistborn RPG. How involved are you still in that? Are they still making-- I got the two supplements they made.

Brandon Sanderson

The first one, I was very involved in. The second two, I let my assistants take over. Because I just have too much to do. So, I'm only involved as much as I like-- the original core, and then I've given the okay to go forward. But I made them put, particularly for the second two, the disclaimer at the front that says "This isn't canon, guys. It's canon for your version of the universe, that you're roleplaying." And I think that's just fine, because your roleplaying stories are only canon for your group anyways. I mean, I will have to have the freedom to come up with things I need to come up with, and I told them that. I said, like, Alloy, I was not planning to do this era, so I don't have the detailed notes I can give you on the other ones about all the houses and things.

source

 

Edited December 15, 2018 by Ookla the Gralsritter

[Ataraxian Wist]

6 hours ago, Ookla the Gralsritter said:

Nope, it's not canon. The treatment of F-Nicrosil is a very obvious example of how what Brandon has later written overrules what the MAG had in place.

 

Good to know. I only have the main one.

Formulating different new theory.