The Grumpy Elantrian

AonDor after Ascension

20 posts in this topic

So, AonDor functions, on an essential level, by creating a gateway (Aon) through which the Dor (trapped in the cognitive realm) may pass into the physical realm. 

The Dor, is a result of the splintered remains of devotion and dominion being crammed into the cognitive realm.

So, if one were to ascend and somehow reforge the splintered remains of the two shards, what impact would this have on AonDor and the other magic systems on Sel? Would it still be capable of functioning in at all the same way? If there is no Dor to be channelled, then what's the point in AonDor?

Would the ascended vessel be able to provide a fuel source for AonDor? Or would the magics of Sel simply revert to their more primal form before the splintering of the shards? If this is the case, what would happen to Elantris and the Elantrians? Or the Dakhor monks? Etc.

Well, thanks in advance for your input. 

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I think it would be a major upset to the planet comparable to an Invested Shard leaving the planet.

 Aons (or rather, various symbol languages) would likely still be the Focus of the world (the way Metal is on Scadrial) that allows the Investiture to reach the Physical world, but everything on Sel now is the result of two masses of Investiture being broken and stuffed in the Cognitive, so I think reassembling them and moving it back to it's natural Spiritual Realm home would be a half-step away from the Dor leaving and a whole new shard arriving.  

All that has the caveat that if the newly minted Vessel in question wanted to they could likely consciously mold things so that the new Investiture interfaces with the Aon symbol system in a way that preserves some if not all of the Dor magics.

Elantrians would probably be hardest hit, though the fact that the Ire members didnt seem to be affected by the Reod might indicate that it's not as necessary after the transformation.  Dakhor might get their bones depowered but I dont think they'd face much beyond that, unless the changes are being actively maintained as with Forgery/Bloodsealing. 

Edited by Quantus
Spoilers Removed
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I'm inclined to agree. Do you think that it would be possible for a shard to power Dor magics with themselves? Allowing part of their investiture to flow through and act as the Dor would, then discipate back into the world and return to their whole?

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3 hours ago, Ookla the Ookspren said:

I'm inclined to agree. Do you think that it would be possible for a shard to power Dor magics with themselves? Allowing part of their investiture to flow through and act as the Dor would, then discipate back into the world and return to their whole?

I think they could do exactly that. I think they could just make it so that the aons draw from SR instead of CR. What that would do to the regional-ness of selish magics.... Idk.

( @Quantus Mistborn spoilers! And some minor SA as well.)

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20 minutes ago, Steel Inqusitive said:

( @Quantus Mistborn spoilers! And some minor SA as well.)

Crap! Thought we were in the main cosmere discussion.  Sorry!

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7 minutes ago, Quantus said:

Crap! Thought we were in the main cosmere discussion.  Sorry!

I do it all the time.....

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38 minutes ago, Steel Inqusitive said:

What that would do to the regional-ness of selish magics.... Idk

Do you think this would make Sellish magics no longer region locked? In the spiritual realm location is irrelevant, so presumably an elantrian could draw effective Aons anywhere? 

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4 minutes ago, Ookla the Ookspren said:

Do you think this would make Sellish magics no longer region locked? In the spiritual realm location is irrelevant, so presumably an elantrian could draw effective Aons anywhere? 

I would think so... But the magic might be so region locked by this point it might take a lot of effort for a shard to change it.... Or maybe not. Maybe just moving the power into spiritual realm would be enough.

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Just now, Steel Inqusitive said:

I would think so... But the magic might be so region locked by this point it might take a lot of effort for a shard to change it.... Or maybe not. Maybe just moving the power into spiritual realm would be enough.

Well as far as I understand, the only thing locking the sellish magics to sel is the fact that the Dor is only in the cognitive realm of sel. I am not aware of any sort of connection issue between the Dor and Sel so I imagine it shouldn't be too difficult. And even so, I would assume a shard powerful enough to handle that. 

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Personally, depending on the interaction of the Vessel who ascended, and their knowledge, I think there's two possibilities. 

1) The shard would maintain the current magic systems, and the regional requirements for initiation would remain, but the regional lock for use would be removed (this would only effect the baseline power level, not boosted effects like those of Elantris), and the powers could be used anywhere. 

2) the systems are completely wiped and a new system develops. 

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1 minute ago, Calderis said:

Personally, depending on the interaction of the Vessel who ascended, and their knowledge, I think there's two possibilities. 

1) The shard would maintain the current magic systems, and the regional requirements for initiation would remain, but the regional lock for use would be removed (this would only effect the baseline power level, not boosted effects like those of Elantris), and the powers could be used anywhere. 

2) the systems are completely wiped and a new system develops. 

Well yes, that's basically what I was thinking in the first post. 

The only thing is, how would one ascend on Sel? 

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Just now, Ookla the Ookspren said:

Well yes, that's basically what I was thinking in the first post. 

The only thing is, how would one ascend on Sel? 

I honestly don't see how. Them being shoved into the Cognitive realm was done precisely to avoid that and I think it was a pretty well done job, even if it didn't work out as well as intended. 

When a shard is "dropped" there's typically some focal point in the Physical/Cognitive that a person can interact with to ascent to the entirety... 

On Sel, the shards are dispersed over the entirety of the world's cognitive, with no single mass. You'd have to somehow gather it all up... Which seems immensely problematic. 

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2 minutes ago, Calderis said:

I honestly don't see how. Them being shoved into the Cognitive realm was done precisely to avoid that and I think it was a pretty well done job, even if it didn't work out as well as intended. 

When a shard is "dropped" there's typically some focal point in the Physical/Cognitive that a person can interact with to ascent to the entirety... 

On Sel, the shards are dispersed over the entirety of the world's cognitive, with no single mass. You'd have to somehow gather it all up... Which seems immensely problematic. 

Would one perhaps be able to use the blue pool that Raoden found in a similar way Vin and Rashek used the Well of Ascension? Using that as an influx of investiture and then attempting to gather the pieces from the cognitive? Or is that pool not at all like the Well?

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7 minutes ago, Ookla the Ookspren said:

Would one perhaps be able to use the blue pool that Raoden found in a similar way Vin and Rashek used the Well of Ascension? Using that as an influx of investiture and then attempting to gather the pieces from the cognitive? Or is that pool not at all like the Well?

Mistborn spoilers 

Spoiler

The well was designed specifically to do that. To be used/released, and prime the user to Ascend. As far as we've seen so far it's the only directly usable perpendicularity. 

I am not going to say that it couldn't be used that way, but even if it were, I still think that the issue of gathering up the Dor would be a problem. You would need to use the power of the pool to do it... And that pool is purely Devotions, so the Dominion half of the Dor would probably resist... And I don't think that the Dor is two separate things anymore so that resistance would be limited to half of the power. 

I think Odium did his work well. 

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1 minute ago, Calderis said:

Mistborn spoilers 

  Hide contents

The well was designed specifically to do that. To be used/released, and prime the user to Ascend. As far as we've seen so far it's the only directly usable perpendicularity. 

I am not going to say that it couldn't be used that way, but even if it were, I still think that the issue of gathering up the Dor would be a problem. You would need to use the power of the pool to do it... And that pool is purely Devotions, so the Dominion half of the Dor would probably resist... And I don't think that the Dor is two separate things anymore so that resistance would be limited to half of the power. 

I think Odium did his work well. 

I'd agree that he certainly did that. And either way, even if AonDor were to become usable anywhere, would not the Aons have to change depending on location? Whether or not access to the door is region locked I imagine the particular Aons still require that connection to location. 

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1 minute ago, Ookla the Ookspren said:

I'd agree that he certainly did that. And either way, even if AonDor were to become usable anywhere, would not the Aons have to change depending on location? Whether or not access to the door is region locked I imagine the particular Aons still require that connection to location. 

Why would that cease? There's is only one magic system on Sel, it's just subdivided regionally. I'm saying that the individual subsystems could be maintained, and the connection to a region would still be required for an individual to gain access to that magic, and it would still be tied to that region in the way it functions. 

That connection would all still be there. It would just be accessed Spiritually, and therefore no longer limited to functioning only within that region. 

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Theoretically there needs to be some sort of general investiture recycling system in the cosmere with it leaking into the physical realm at perpendicularites and then returning the spiritual realm (where the bulk of it should be) after its free kinetic form is used to power magics.  If true, I wonder if the "solution" is for residents of Sel to use as much Dor as often as possible to speed its mysterious return to the spiritual realm.

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6 hours ago, Subvisual Haze said:

If true, I wonder if the "solution" is for residents of Sel to use as much Dor as often as possible to speed its mysterious return to the spiritual realm.

I don't think that would work. Preservation was able to remove a chunk of Ruin's power from the whole and force it to keep recycling in a manner such that the power never went back to Ruin after being used. I think that what Odium did similarly cuts the Spiritual Realm out of the cycle and the power simply goes back into the big Investiture plasma storm in the Cognitive.

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