CrazyRioter Posted September 5, 2011 Report Share Posted September 5, 2011 I figure he could have got out using one (or a couple) of the atium beads they were mining, if you have atium the other metals are pretty much a moot point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windrunner Posted September 5, 2011 Report Share Posted September 5, 2011 (edited) And then, nobody knows exactly how, he escapes from the Pits. It makes sense, he discovers he's a Mistborn. Oh, so? So they sell metal vials to the prisoners of Hathsin? I think there might be a Lerasium bead there. Now, you guys know a lot of things Brandon has said in a lot of places, so you might be able to confirm it or not... I always just assumed that he used some of the Atium at the Pits to fight the relatively small garrison there. I think that with enough Atium he would have had no trouble escaping. (Sorry CrazyRioter you posted while I was typing so I didn't mean to say the same thing) Personally I find it difficult to believe that there was a bead of Lerasium at the Pits that Kelsier coincidentally found. In addition to that, Vin never mentions how unusually strong Kelsier is for a Mistborn, while she mentions the strength of Elend's Allomancy several times in the text. I imagine that the short story by Brandon about Kelsier's escape from the Pits and subsequent training by Gemmel that is in the new Mistborn RPG might make things clearer. Edited September 5, 2011 by Windrunner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorontir Posted September 5, 2011 Report Share Posted September 5, 2011 16 is a number of the biggest importance to Preservation, so... 10? 11? why not 16 beads? I don't mean that there were 16 beads in the well. Maybe some of the beads were in other places, like the theory about Kel. But it will make sense if there were 16 beads instead of 11, 12 or whatever below 16... I know, I know, I forgot my medicine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe ST Posted September 5, 2011 Report Share Posted September 5, 2011 Who's to say all beads are made equal? maybe there was 16 amounts of it bundled into 11 beads, or Rashek took more than 1 amount of it to become a mistborn. Who knows what happens if you burn it when you're already a mistborn. Oh and I guess Hoid might have a bit and is keeping it 'hostage' say, until he has all the shards in a way that he can pull them together. It depends on whether the shards have the power to ignore the usage of their gate-openers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zas678 Posted September 5, 2011 Report Share Posted September 5, 2011 Brandon's mentioned something about Kelsier's mistborn-ness before. Maybe it was in HoA? Let me find it.... EDIT- Too late! That's what I get for posting that there is a quote before finding it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted September 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2011 Chapter 17 annotation: Kelsier's SnappingWhy didn't Kelsier Snap before he went to the Pits? I don't have an answer for you, not even in spoilers. He did live a hard life and it is odd that he wouldn't have Snapped until that moment when he saw his wife beaten to death. They say that the more powerful a person is, the more trauma it takes to get them to Snap and the more dangerous that Snapping is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alliare Posted September 5, 2011 Report Share Posted September 5, 2011 I always just assumed that he used some of the Atium at the Pits to fight the relatively small garrison there. I think that with enough Atium he would have had no trouble escaping. (Sorry CrazyRioter you posted while I was typing so I didn't mean to say the same thing) Personally I find it difficult to believe that there was a bead of Lerasium at the Pits that Kelsier coincidentally found. In addition to that, Vin never mentions how unusually strong Kelsier is for a Mistborn, while she mentions the strength of Elend's Allomancy several times in the text. I imagine that the short story by Brandon about Kelsier's escape from the Pits and subsequent training by Gemmel that is in the new Mistborn RPG might make things clearer. Well, he was tired. Hurt (the famous scars). Even if he had atium, he was at a disadvantage. There's no point in seeing the future if you're surrounded and have no strength left. I think he had to sneak out, at the very best. If there had been an open confrontation, and he had won, he wouldn't have been the only to escape. So, yes, probably he used some atium to see what the guards were going to do. Would have been foolish not to. But I don't think a prisoner, in a prisoner's conditions, would be able to escape from the Pits burning only atium. It would have been very difficult. Being a Lerasium-enhanced Mistborn would have helped. And... coincidentally? I don't know. Kandra live there, and kandra are from Preservation. Nothing is coincidential. And... well, yes, Vin never actually mentions how strong Kelsier is for a Mistborn, but... Vin worships Kelsier. Not as a deity, but as a teacher. And we do see Kelsier fighting against people from the Houses specialized in fighting Mistborns... and, well, I don't think the Houses have them just for decoration, and he really does it, whilst Vin struggles against Zane in book two. There's only one thing I know for sure: Brandon is a master of putting the answer to very difficult plot twists and mysteries right in front of our eyes without us noticing. And they make too many references to Kelsier's escape. Come on, he's even called the Survivor! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zas678 Posted September 5, 2011 Report Share Posted September 5, 2011 I think that Kelsier could've escaped with just Atium. It's pretty awesome stuff. If you put in any influence Ruin gave him, as well as the extra time Kelsier would've had now that Atium was easier found. And also, Kelsier mentions how much more powerful Vin is than he is. During one of their duels, she was holding her own against him despite the fact that he was a good 100ish pounds on her. And then Vin mentions how much more powerful Elend was than her. He was able to soothe at least 10x as many koloss as she was. So Elend (a Lerasium Mistborn) was more powerful than Vin (a future Sliver), who was more powerful than Kelsier (a normal mistborn). So therefore, Elend was MUCH more powerful than Kelsier. If Kelsier was a Lerasium Mistborn, he would've had a much easier time defeating TLR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted September 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2011 We'll know for certain happens in the Mistborn Adventure Game, which has a short story with Kelsier freeing himself from the Pits and meeting Gemmel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windrunner Posted September 6, 2011 Report Share Posted September 6, 2011 Ok I think I'll break this down for clarity. Well, he was tired. Hurt (the famous scars). Even if he had atium, he was at a disadvantage. There's no point in seeing the future if you're surrounded and have no strength left. I think he had to sneak out, at the very best. If there had been an open confrontation, and he had won, he wouldn't have been the only to escape. So, yes, probably he used some atium to see what the guards were going to do. Would have been foolish not to. But I don't think a prisoner, in a prisoner's conditions, would be able to escape from the Pits burning only atium. It would have been very difficult. Being a Lerasium-enhanced Mistborn would have helped. I don't really understand this. As you mentioned before there was no metals available to prisoners at the Pits so I don't understand how being a Lerasium Mistborn would help, regardless of how powerful Kelsier is. Yes his atium would be more powerful but if you don't think he could get out of the Pits with just Atium I don't see how being a Lerasium Mistborn would solve the problem when he doesn't have any other metals. And... coincidentally? I don't know. Kandra live there, and kandra are from Preservation. Nothing is coincidential. This is true, however Preservation's mind had long been sacrificed to imprison Ruin by the time Rashek had created kandra at the Well of Ascension. I suppose he could have led them to it as this mist spirit but I find this unlikely. In addition to that for most of the history of the Final Empire no kandra could leave the Homeland except on contract. Another point is that if somehow the kandra had a bead of Lerasium do you think that they would leave it somewhere where a prisoner could find it? Considering the fanatical devotion that they showed guarding the Atium, I don't think that they would have left the a piece of the body of their god unguarded. Also in the Hero of Ages it states that all the tunnels between the Pits and the Homeland had been sealed. And... well, yes, Vin never actually mentions how strong Kelsier is for a Mistborn, but... Vin worships Kelsier. Not as a deity, but as a teacher. And we do see Kelsier fighting against people from the Houses specialized in fighting Mistborns... and, well, I don't think the Houses have them just for decoration, and he really does it, whilst Vin struggles against Zane in book two. I would like to point out that Zane was a Hemalurgist. He had a steel spike, allowing him to Steelpush nearly twice as hard a a normal Mistborn. Also in the attack on Cett's keep Vin meets 50 hazekillers (WoA pg. 532 paperback) and she and Zane defeated them easily while Kelsier struggled to defeat eight of them in the first book. I'm afraid that I find this theory, at best, unlikely. There are entirely too many maybes and what-ifs in it for me, and I don't find any of the original evidence for there being a bead at the Pits compelling. And if Brandon himself has stated that Kelsier snapped in the spoilers portion of the annotations then I don't think he's lying. When there's any major spoilers for future novels in the annotations he either gets evasive or comes out and says that he doesn't want to talk about it so I'd say his statement is pretty definitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alliare Posted September 6, 2011 Report Share Posted September 6, 2011 And if Brandon himself has stated that Kelsier snapped in the spoilers portion of the annotations then I don't think he's lying. When there's any major spoilers for future novels in the annotations he either gets evasive or comes out and says that he doesn't want to talk about it so I'd say his statement is pretty definitive. That I didn't remember, though I know I read the full annotations at the moment. I am horrible for keeping all the facts of my head. No, I don't think he's lying. I'll check the annotations, though, to find out what he says, exactly. However, I want to explain myself, at least for not to be regarded as someone who says things that make no sense XD. I don't really understand this. As you mentioned before there was no metals available to prisoners at the Pits so I don't understand how being a Lerasium Mistborn would help, regardless of how powerful Kelsier is. Yes his atium would be more powerful but if you don't think he could get out of the Pits with just Atium I don't see how being a Lerasium Mistborn would solve the problem when he doesn't have any other metals. Ok, ok, my bad. I didn't make myself clear. The Final Empire's water has more metals than normal water, remember? That's how Vin was able to use her "luck", and that wasn't even her enhanced power. And it is mentioned she tried to "reserve" it. So, metals could have made small accumulations, somehow, in non-allomantic people (small enough not to be toxig, so it would be nothing in comparison to what an allomantic vial could have). Not much, and definitely not enough for escaping, but that's what could have benefited from the Lerasium bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darniil Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 Chapter 17 annotation: Kelsier's Snapping Why didn't Kelsier Snap before he went to the Pits? I don't have an answer for you, not even in spoilers. He did live a hard life and it is odd that he wouldn't have Snapped until that moment when he saw his wife beaten to death. They say that the more powerful a person is, the more trauma it takes to get them to Snap and the more dangerous that Snapping is. I guess he retconned this, then. :-/ Either that, or it was clarified in a later chapter that I just haven't gotten to in my re-read/summarization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterAhlstrom Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 (edited) Those quotes from the book and Brandon are consistent with each other, with no retconning involved. We'll know for certain happens in the Mistborn Adventure Game, which has a short story with Kelsier freeing himself from the Pits and meeting Gemmel. When the short story starts, he's already with Gemmel. Edited September 7, 2011 by PeterAhlstrom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted September 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 Oh, interesting. My bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darniil Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 Those quotes from the book and Brandon are consistent with each other, with no retconning involved. Thanks for the clarification, Peter. The passage I quoted in the Talk page suggested to me that there was a "long" time between Mare's death and Kelsier's Snapping - weeks or months - but I guess that was just a misinterpretation. It could just as easily have meant seconds or minutes, which I guess it did mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posaune Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 We know for sure that kelsier had iorn while escaping from chpter 32 of final empier. Nearly three years before, standing over the bloody corpses of the taskmasters who had beaten Mare to death, he had noticed that he could use iorn to sense where crystle pockets were. This seems to imply that he had iorn and used it to kill the taskmasters. He probably got it from the groundwter, as the majority of prisoners would not be allomancers, and so special precautions would only be taken for those they knew were allomancers, like Mare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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