Healing with a confused mind

[Helwar]

I have had this in my mind since way back when we learned that healing mostly depended on the self-image of the healed person (at least with Stormlight).

Does this mean that if for some reason, call it magic, call it brainwashing, or the super-power of extreme self-delusion, you had a Radiant believe that he is phisically different from what he is, he would "heal" into that new shape?

You convince a tall man that he was short and should be short, or convince another that he was changed to a man by evil magic but he was instead a woman... Would they eventually "heal" themselves until they are a short man and a woman, respectively?

Or maybe it wold only work with less drastic changes, like change of skin tone, gain/loss of muscular mass, minor alterations in facial features, etc...

 

Is this possible to "heal" into something/someone else if you confuse enough the mind that's supposed to filter the investiture?

 

Possible cons: I do remember mention of a "perfect version of self" stored in the Spiritual realm, that the cognitive aspect uses as a template for healing, but that "perfect version" ought to be modificable, or else no matter how Kaladin sees himself, his perfect version wouldn't have scars and he would not heal them back.

[+Invocation]

Theoretically, I think so, but that would take a lot of power.

[Weltall]

3 hours ago, Helwar said:

You convince a tall man that he was short and should be short, or convince another that he was changed to a man by evil magic but he was instead a woman... Would they eventually "heal" themselves until they are a short man and a woman, respectively?

Brandon has said that it's possible for someone whose Cognitive self-image is a gender different from their Spiritual/Physical one to change their Physical gender with magic but one imagines that would require a very strong Cognitive image and a higher-than-normal amount of Investiture to affect the change. He's said elsewhere that the main way you'd do this;in the Cosmere is indeed by using healing magics, though.we know that the Nightwatcher can change your species so it should be well within her power to change gender as well, for another way of reaching that result.

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Possible cons: I do remember mention of a "perfect version of self" stored in the Spiritual realm, that the cognitive aspect uses as a template for healing, but that "perfect version" ought to be modificable, or else no matter how Kaladin sees himself, his perfect version wouldn't have scars and he would not heal them back.

That's where the Cognitive comes into play. Kaladin's Spiritual template says 'no scars' while his Cognitive self-image says 'scars' so it essentially overrules that part of his Spiritual image, but it doesn't change it.

Edited November 26, 2018 by Ookla the Gralsritter

[Quantus]

2 hours ago, Helwar said:

I have had this in my mind since way back when we learned that healing mostly depended on the self-image of the healed person (at least with Stormlight).

Does this mean that if for some reason, call it magic, call it brainwashing, or the super-power of extreme self-delusion, you had a Radiant believe that he is phisically different from what he is, he would "heal" into that new shape?

You convince a tall man that he was short and should be short, or convince another that he was changed to a man by evil magic but he was instead a woman... Would they eventually "heal" themselves until they are a short man and a woman, respectively?

Or maybe it wold only work with less drastic changes, like change of skin tone, gain/loss of muscular mass, minor alterations in facial features, etc...

 

Is this possible to "heal" into something/someone else if you confuse enough the mind that's supposed to filter the investiture?

 

Possible cons: I do remember mention of a "perfect version of self" stored in the Spiritual realm, that the cognitive aspect uses as a template for healing, but that "perfect version" ought to be modificable, or else no matter how Kaladin sees himself, his perfect version wouldn't have scars and he would not heal them back.

The way I understand it is that the healing happens based on the Ideal platonic self in the Spiritual realm, which moment to moment is not much affected by the mental state of the person.  Long-term that Platonic Self can change, and that is evident in several places: People and Objects have a time period where they can be broken and still remember their "whole" self, but in both cases as time passes it will become harder to revert.  Sapient Creatures can further affect this with their own conscious and subconscious self-image, as with Kaladin who had decided to define himself as a slave while Lopen had never really accepted his missing arm.  So in that sense a person with a strong enough self-image can re-write an awful lot of themselves, though there is a real and increasing energy requirement involved so it's not as easy as simply healing a wound or Infection.  

 

Now, if you wanted to try to force that sort of thing, in theory you certainly could as that's more or less what happens with Kolos: you use investiture to manipulate their Spiritweb via their physical aspect (specifically their flowing Blood) and the changes are forced to manifest back in the physical realm.

 

The question this really points me toward is: assuming adequate power sources to overcome affecting something Invested, could a Radiant Heal away the changes of a Soul-stamp?  I dont think you could fix Soulcasting, since it's a permanent Change to the Aspect (same way you cannot use Gold Feruchemy to Heal a Snapping), but I think there's a very real possibility that a Radiant (or target of Regrowth, F-Gold, etc) could shake off a hostile Soulstamp.

[Calderis]

I used to believe the same as Weltall on this. That the Spiritual Aspect was immutable, and that the Cognitive acted solely as a preventative filter that could not actually alter the Spiritual. 

This WoB from @WireSegal forced me to change those beliefs.

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wiresegal

In OB, you explained that the Singers have four sexes. I was wondering... Can the Singers have genders other than those four, like humans? Even as simple as just not going with male, female, or malen/femalen. Could a transgender Singer use their ability to shift forms to change their biological reality? And, finally, could a Spren be non-binary, if it wasn't personified in a typical male/female way?

Brandon Sanderson

In the cosmere as a whole, a person's perception of themselves has a lot of power over both their Spiritual and Physical forms. It is possible, with investiture, to change their biology to match Cognitive perceptions--and while this could be easier for some races (like the Singers) it's not outside plausibility for any race.

There are non-binary spren, actually--and you should be meeting one important one quite soon in the books.

source

"In the cosmere as a whole, a person's perception of themselves has a lot of power over both their Spiritual and Physical forms."

The Cognitive can change the Spiritual. 

In the context of gender swapping, that has to be the case, because there are two options. Either gender is not a Spiritual trait... Which seems unlikely. Or self perception can actually change the Spiritual Aspect. 

Because of that, I don't think simply "believing" something to be true is enough. It has to be a deep seeded, subconscious truth. Brainwashing could probably accomplish that. But not always. It depends on what's trying to be changed and how drastically different its differs from what the person actually perceives themselves to be. 

Edited November 26, 2018 by Calderis