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The Surge of Transportation


The Grumpy Elantrian

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So, as far as I know, the only way we have seen or heard of the surge of transportation being used is as 'elsecalling' by which the user teleported into the cognitive realm. But there are several references, such as when Teft explains the radiants' abilities to Kaladin, that radiants could travel great diatances in an instant. Is this another use of the surge transportation? Is it perhaps the way that Willshapers use the surge, where Elsecallers travel to Shadesmar instead?

Thanks in advance for your input. 

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1 minute ago, The Grumpy Elantrian said:

So, as far as I know, the only way we have seen or heard of the surge of transportation being used is as 'elsecalling' by which the user teleported into the cognitive realm. But there are several references, such as when Teft explains the radiants' abilities to Kaladin, that radiants could travel great diatances in an instant. Is this another use of the surge transportation? Is it perhaps the way that Willshapers use the surge, where Elsecallers travel to Shadesmar instead?

Thanks in advance for your input. 

But Elsecallers can teleport kind of. Yes they can go into Shadesmar, but that's a special thing with their bond. I think.

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Telepotation and realmatic transition should be available to both. 

In many ways, teleporting in the Cosmere is just realmatic transition. 

Physical > Cognitive > Spiritual > Cognitive (in a different location) > Physical

It would all happen in one go, so it would feel like that, but that's essentially what would be occurring. 

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1 minute ago, Calderis said:

Telepotation and realmatic transition should be available to both. 

In many ways, teleporting in the Cosmere is just realmatic transition. 

Physical > Cognitive > Spiritual > Cognitive (in a different location) > Physical

It would all happen in one go, so it would feel like that, but that's essentially what would be occurring. 

That was similar to what I thiugh may occur, I just wasn't sure.

Would there then be similar limitations to teleportation with Aons? Does the deatination need to be precise and measured? Perhaps simply clearly visible? Or since they would travel similarly to an oathgate (as I believe oathgates are the fabrial equivalent of transportation) do issues of reappearing in the ground and such not apply?

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7 minutes ago, The Grumpy Elantrian said:

That was similar to what I thiugh may occur, I just wasn't sure.

Would there then be similar limitations to teleportation with Aons? Does the deatination need to be precise and measured? Perhaps simply clearly visible? Or since they would travel similarly to an oathgate (as I believe oathgates are the fabrial equivalent of transportation) do issues of reappearing in the ground and such not apply?

It doesn't appear as though anyone's figured it out yet, or if Jasnah has its not apparent due to her tendency to keep secrets. 

Personally I think the nature of AonDor well make it much more strictly structured, and Elsecalling will be much more intent driven... But we've been told that Elsecalling is not a precise art, even for those who are experienced, so it may well be dangerous. 

Quote

Questioner

Is Jasnah still alive at the end of the book, since the whole scene where she kind of appears...

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, she is.

Argent

*photo pause* Why does she take so long to come back?

Brandon Sanderson

Because Elsecalling is not precise even if you know what you are doing, which she doesn't.

source

 

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It seems clear that the Oathgates are using Transportation, and they are extremely precise. Maybe the surge is easier to use in some places than others, and those places were chosen as the locations for the Oathgates for that reason. The cities could have been a secondary thing, the way cities always spring up around hubs of travel and trade.

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3 minutes ago, earthexile said:

It seems clear that the Oathgates are using Transportation, and they are extremely precise. Maybe the surge is easier to use in some places than others, and those places were chosen as the locations for the Oathgates for that reason. The cities could have been a secondary thing, the way cities always spring up around hubs of travel and trade.

Perhaps, but what would cause a location to be more 'in tune', if you will, with the surge?

Also, yes the oathgates are very precise, but they are a machine set to certain locations only. I doubt a radiant wanting to teleport to those hills a few kilometres away would be as precise. There is room for human error, misjudgements of some form. But again, I'm not sure.

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At the end of the day Oathgates are Fabrials, and they all have more functional limitations than a Radiant with the equivalent Surge, so Im not sure we can assume that Radiant's would need the same sort of two-sided Gate and/or Landing Platform type of setup. 

 

At this point I have more questions that ideas about Transportation, to be honest.  We only have a couple examples of Surges in Two Orders, and they arent entirely consistent. Gravitation seems to work more or less the same for Windrunners and Skybreakers, while Bondsmiths have a tendency to manifest the same concept in a different Realm (as was the case with his "Spiritual Adhesion".  I could see it being as simple as them also being able to access Shademar (fitting with their typical love of travel and adventure), but I could also see it operating in a different Realm, and their being a more Spiritual than the Cognitive focus of the Elsecallers like Jasnah would thematically fit rather nicely.  If true it would mean that Elsecallers are the ones with the best access to the Cognitive Realm for worldhopping and the Soulcasting mechanics, while Willshapers would excel at interfacing with the Spiritual Realm for the Instantaneous Point-to-point Transport that the Oathgate's use.  This especially appeals to me because Id look forward to seeing what new things a Singer Willshaper could do with that and her own innate Connection to the Spiritual realm via the Rhythms. 

 

 

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9 hours ago, Quantus said:

At the end of the day Oathgates are Fabrials, and they all have more functional limitations than a Radiant with the equivalent Surge, so Im not sure we can assume that Radiant's would need the same sort of two-sided Gate and/or Landing Platform type of setup. 

 

At this point I have more questions that ideas about Transportation, to be honest.  We only have a couple examples of Surges in Two Orders, and they arent entirely consistent. Gravitation seems to work more or less the same for Windrunners and Skybreakers, while Bondsmiths have a tendency to manifest the same concept in a different Realm (as was the case with his "Spiritual Adhesion".  I could see it being as simple as them also being able to access Shademar (fitting with their typical love of travel and adventure), but I could also see it operating in a different Realm, and their being a more Spiritual than the Cognitive focus of the Elsecallers like Jasnah would thematically fit rather nicely.  If true it would mean that Elsecallers are the ones with the best access to the Cognitive Realm for worldhopping and the Soulcasting mechanics, while Willshapers would excel at interfacing with the Spiritual Realm for the Instantaneous Point-to-point Transport that the Oathgate's use.  This especially appeals to me because Id look forward to seeing what new things a Singer Willshaper could do with that and her own innate Connection to the Spiritual realm via the Rhythms. 

 

 

I think I'm inclined to agree. I have a similar source of curiousity as to whether each order has a different version of each surge, a factor which I'd prefer as it adds more variety. 

Further, I like the idea that Willshapers would act as an intermediary with the spiritual realm in a way, as it would provide them an interesting place amongst the radiants. 

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Per the in world Words of Radiance I see no reason to believe that there is a functional difference between the Surge of Transportation for either order. 

Quote

As to the other orders that were inferior in this visiting of the far realm of spren, the Elsecallers were prodigiously benevolent, allowing others as auxiliary to their visits and interactions; though they did never relinquish their place as prime liaisons with the great ones of the spren; and the Lightweavers and Willshapers both also had an affinity to the same, though neither were the true masters of that realm.
—From Words of Radiance, chapter 6, page 2

Willshapers had access to Shadesmar via Transportation, and Lightweavers had a limited Access via the astral projection like thing that Soulcasting accomplishes, but Elsecallers were the "masters of that realm" because of having both. 

If Willshapers can access Shadesmar, just as Elsecallers can, both should be capable of teleportation as well. 

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11 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

We saw transportation used in one of Dalinar's visions.

Really? Which one?

Also, if Elantrians teleport the same way through the cognitive realm, why dont they get hurt along the way? There's an investiture storm in the cognitive, so shouldn't that damage them? Even if they're only there for a second?

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1 hour ago, Ookla the Gray said:

Really? Which one?

Also, if Elantrians teleport the same way through the cognitive realm, why dont they get hurt along the way? There's an investiture storm in the cognitive, so shouldn't that damage them? Even if they're only there for a second?

From what I understand, transportation requires the spiritual realm. I imagine that it'd be a very brief transition into the cognitive realm, which may be why they aren't obliterated. 

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I don't really imagine that there's any time spent "in the Cognitive." 

The steps I demonstrated are basically just a concept. 

Your basically using the Spiritual realm as a doorway to fold space. Whether that requires "entry" to the Cognitive doesn't really matter, i just think the five stage process of realmatic transition from physical to spiritual and back is a tentative idea of how expensive teleporting would be in comparison to simply entering Shadesmar. 

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4 hours ago, Calderis said:

I don't really imagine that there's any time spent "in the Cognitive." 

The steps I demonstrated are basically just a concept. 

Your basically using the Spiritual realm as a doorway to fold space. Whether that requires "entry" to the Cognitive doesn't really matter, i just think the five stage process of realmatic transition from physical to spiritual and back is a tentative idea of how expensive teleporting would be in comparison to simply entering Shadesmar. 

Fair enough then.

From how I understood transportation, by entering the spiritual realm (which encompasses everywhere at once) you can then plomp yourself back down anywhere and then tansition into the physical realm.

This wouldn't require entering the cognitive first, but I was simply basing my statements off the info you provided. 

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There's at least one WOB that implies even Jasnah's shadesmar travel involves Perpendicularities, and as I understand it their whole point is that the distinction between the Realms start to go away entirely as they all get crushed into each other.  In that sense, it might be less that Transportation takes you to one Realm or the other so much as it makes the distinctions between realms cease to exist entirely and blends the lower two with the Omnipresent Spiritual, then you get to choose your exit point from there which can be in either realm.

 

14 hours ago, Calderis said:

Per the in world Words of Radiance I see no reason to believe that there is a functional difference between the Surge of Transportation for either order. 

Willshapers had access to Shadesmar via Transportation, and Lightweavers had a limited Access via the astral projection like thing that Soulcasting accomplishes, but Elsecallers were the "masters of that realm" because of having both. 

If Willshapers can access Shadesmar, just as Elsecallers can, both should be capable of teleportation as well. 

I dont know, given that the quote is painting the Willshapers and Lightweavers with the same brush and the Lightweaver's bit is relatively unique, I dont think we can assume the Willshapers and Elscallers are going to match any more directly.  It also implies that only the Elsecallers were known to bring others with them to Shadesmar as if the others could not, thought that could be a simply cultural choice rather than a power limitation on the Willshaper's part. 

Edited by Quantus
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