Ookla the Mountain of the Gods

[Archer]

Out of context, a drunk mime slipped in through the back door. 

Concerned I would be pressured to change my vote afterwards, I decided to decline my ballot. Instead, I stood near a hole in the fourth wall and tried to build up the courage to lick it. 

[xinoehp512]

"Voidus, you are an Avatar. Authors cannot enter this realm, or we theirs."

I turned back to Badadah. "Didn't you just vote to not give him any?"

[whattheHoid]

Probably will be talks about this in other threads, dunno how much Freyja's vote will count ...

"I vote Hellbent should be gifted the Horn of the Herald. We can't let him wreak havoc on the Alley! We must keep the Alley safe, relatively."

[xinoehp512]

"I think that Hellbent should not be let mess with the Alleyverse. Too much."

[Voidus]

"Yeah, but I can be in two places at once, and also I can represent both a fictional construct of myself but also refer to myself as an author as that is what I, the person who is creating these words is, even though the literal being transmitting them to you is not. Like if I were speaking over the phone and said 'I am a person', the fact that a phone is not a person doesn't make that sentence less true, the person providing the intention for these words is the Author. And while I as an author can't physically enter the Alleyverse, I can portray information and change things there. That's literally all we do."

[MacThorstenson]

The chairman looks up. And listens to the conversation. And then internally monologues for a while. He’s and I are not sure about what this deal with a avatars and authors is, but because we are only thinking to ourselves, nobody should get mad.

It seems to me that we need a little divine intervention here. We tried to lower the power of the alleyverse, in era 2, but failed. Instead all of hear gods were born.

I’m thinking back to what happened at the end of the silmilarion. Where the earth was rounded, and he gods were removed from middle earth. And I know that I started this by putting mac on the worlds, but that was a mistake.

How to do it though? That was the question.

Well, maybe we don’t need to do a hard limit yet. Maybe we just need to take all the gods and have them police themselves.

These are just a few thoughts tho, maybe I’m completely off base and this won’t result in the complete destruction of the alleyverse. Time will tell. 

[Voidus]

"Well Mac if we want to get a little more meta about it we do technically have police already, I suppose from this perspective they're they gods with the power to restrain another god. Although I really hope this never comes to that. But I do agree that I'd like to limit direct intervention when possible, used as a narrative element it works fine but if we all just dive in and do whatever we want then this is no longer a formal RP it's just a bunch of people creating independent worlds in complete chaos. Thankfully there's already the hard limit of all RPs in place, that people don't mess with the communal narrative at an individual whim."

[xinoehp512]

"An Avatar represents the Author, but has a different personality." I sighed. "Look, all of this is a creation of the Authors. In a sense, it's no more real then the whole Alleyverse. Without better definition, all we are is OP characters."

[Archer]

I tried to figure out what the mime was miming. 

"Water? A... bridge of water? That's a stupid idea."

The mime facepalmed, then continued.

"Boat. Vulcans. Vulcan boats! Then a chunk of the... Earth breaks off and flies away! Ha!" 

Silly mime. It should stick to what it's good at, fixing walls. 

"What Voidus said," I said, saididly, then went back to my game of charades.  

Edited November 22, 2018 by Archer

[xinoehp512]

I created a chair and sat down. "No one's posted in the chat thread, so I better put this here to avoid double posting.

"What this is- all of this- is ideas. They are meant to inter-mesh to form entertainment for both the Authors and the Readers. This whole sequence is another idea. We're creating characters that represent ourselves, based on the idea of online avatars. That's pretty much how I see this, and I feel like it makes sense. Does it not make sense to you?"

[Voidus]

I tried to join Archers game of charades but was unfortunately unable to see what he was imagining was being mimed next. So instead I blurted something else out and just hoped he'd run with it, establishing in our joint imagined reality that this was indeed fact.

"And now it is pretending to be a duck."

I then quickly addressed the other conversation.

"Any character has exactly what personality you give it, and this being a direct representative makes the most sense that most people are just going to align it with their self. Yes, in-world this is a separate construct but that doesn't change the fact that its purpose is to act as a representative and mouthpiece. Let's not complicate things any more than we need to."

[xinoehp512]

"Yes! Exactly! I think you understand perfectly. I still don't see how that applies to Voidus Prime, though.

"Also, I would like to clarify: we, as Avatars, are tied to an account on 17thshard.com. We, as Authors, using the accounts to RP is the same as us using the Avatars to RP. Or at least it should be.

"I also agree that would shouldn't complicate things more than we need to. Once we all agree on what's going on with the reality/imagination barrier, we can stop talking about it. I just want it clarified so things make sense."

[Voidus]

"I'm not sure it needs much clarification, some people may not have needed to think about it in detail but it's not complex as such, just abstract. We as RPers are creating a shared reality, in this case: The Alleyverse. Here we are creating an in-world manifestation of ourselves, or at least ourselves on the 17thShard. But going to far into detail as to what that does and doesn't constitute doesn't serve much of a purpose, the reason that we did this should inform what we do and don't do with it, rather than trying to establish to a granular level exactly what an Avatar is or isn't.
As for what that has to do with Voidus Prime, he very much serves the same purpose, I usually portray him as not having meta-knowledge but that's purely an artifact of story convenience to make sure I don't ruin the fun of other people. Originally (Before this was formally constructed at all), Voidus was both a character and myself, I made no distinction. And canonically he is the one that created the Alleyverse. If I as an author want to limit his power in some way then I can, but I can just as easily break those limits should I so choose. Given that this is a shared reality that is likely to annoy other people and may cause a disconnect in the shared experience so I probably won't."

I went back to seeing if @Archer would accept my imposition upon his imaginings.

[old man moomba]

"As I imagined it, the accounts we create are seprate and distinct from our real selves. The accounts, or avatars, as Xinoehp57 so accurately discribed them, exsist on another plane, one that is in between the Real World and the shared reality. My idea of Voidus, was that he was an Avatar that had been trapped on the wrong side of the fourth wall. I also agree with the whole "we inhabit our charactars" thing. I just wanted to clairify with you all.

[xinoehp512]

I ran my hands through my hair. "I do think we should explain in detail what Avatars are. If we don't figure out now, we'll have to figure it out later, and by then it will be even harder.

"The important thing about Avatars is that they are fundamentally tied to the accounts on 17th shard. That means everywhere on 17th shard. Voidus Prime is an Alleyverse character. You, Voidus, as a Moderator on the 17th shard, have more power as an Avatar than the rest of us do. If any Administrators came here, they would have even more.

"The other important thing about Avatars is that they represent us, as Authors. That means they have the power to do anything that we can imagine. An Avatar could not get stuck.

"One final note: the whole alleyverse is created by all of us, like you said. It is an inter-meshing of Ideas, like I said. Contradictory Ideas can be part of the Alleyverse at the same time. If they don't affect anything, that's okay. It's less important, for instance, whether the waffle iron incident in ToH happened or not, because history progresses the same either way. If a contradiction is impossible to ignore, however, we have to uncanonize one of the ideas to avoid confusion."

I collapsed in a chair, exhausted. "I- as an Author- am going to sleep now. See you all later."

[Archer]

I didn't sleep. Mostly because I had trouble expressing future actions while keeping to the past tense, so I continued watching the mime. It was contorting itself into the shape of the Taj Mahal when suddenly it twisted into the shape of a duck. 

"Something of great symbolic importance has just happened."

Obviously, the mime responded in sign language. I just made a symbol of a duck.

 "I was thinking more along the lines of the conformation of the-" big words failed me. "Yeah. You're right. It's just a duck. Now do a camel."

The mime instead managed to somehow contort itself into the shape of functional diesel motor.

Edited November 22, 2018 by Voidus

[Voidus]

"I don't think we'll ever need to go into minute detail, so I don't believe it would make things harder later, but I'm always up for a conversation. Ok you're talking about two different things, the literal account and the fictional representation of that account. My account on the 17th Shard exists regarfless of whether or not you imagine it to exist, things in the Alleyverse only exist so long as everyone whose collective imaginings make up the Alleyverse are willing to accept it as existing.
This is why I don't want to complicate things too much but here we go. There is a person sitting at a chair typing things, there is a digital profile of that person on a server owned by the admins of the 17th Shard, then on a part of that Shard there is a FFRP where I may chose to create a mouthpiece to speak for me, now given that as established it is impossible for that to actually be the same thing as a profile on the site at the most it can be a representation of that profile, but if it is a representation then that means it is mutable. If it is mutable then we essentially all imagine what we perceive them to be and until those ideas come into conflict all of those perceptions are equally real in the Alleyverse.
Moving back to Voidus Prime again, he is stuck because I want him to be stuck, could he get out? Of course he could. That could happen right now if I want it to. He's there because I want him there, and if we were to consider him an Avatar then he and I have the same powers and motives in the RP and that means he wants him there and that is why he isn't getting out. And no Avatars are not all powerful in the RP, because an Avatar is only representative of one person, the universe is jointly created by many people so if everyone decided to disbelieve in the actions of an Avatar or even the Avatar itself then it ceases to have any power. An avatar is a representation of you in the Shared universe, not you yourself. You use it as a means of interacting but you are the one who has the power, not the character you express yourself with."

I then watched with joy as my suggestion became shared reality which Archer then added to.

"This is nice. There are a lot of fights in the RP, it's nice to do something like this once in a while too."

Feeling a little mischievious I asserted my will on Archers directly, changing things. I hoped @Archer wouldn't mind and gave him assent if he wished to alter my reality in return.

[I think I am here.]

“‘I think I am here,’” I think I am here said,” said I.

[old man moomba]

I looked up, as the universe exploded from skepticism about an Avatar's being in a place.

[+Sorana]

I read through the thread and needed to read the whole whose Avatar is what part twice to really understand it. Then I realized that my using the name of a LARP char only makes this more complicated, because now I have a fictional representation of me, that is based on another fictional representation of myself, both of whom are acting differently from each other.

Leaving this line of thought alone I posted to give Badadah no reason to yell at me (jk)

[Archer]

Australia is awesome.

Why did I just write that? I wondered, sipping my eggnog as I internally monologued and petted my dog. And where'd I get a dog?

I looked around suspiciously. Based on my rudimentary knowledge of timezones, I knew that if it's nighttime here, then it's day time in the far away places. Like Virginia. And Australia.

"That narrows it down to a half dozen suspects," I mused. "But only one of them is devious enough to have done this. J'accuse Voidus!"

Shocked, I picked up the dog and threw it into the hole in the fourth wall. Horrified, the mime fainted.

"Two can play at this game. I can manipulate this shared existence too. All I need to do is imply consequences really convincingly. Here goes." I held up my hands and made some simple complicated motions of specifically ambiguous nature. The god thing was starting to go to my head. "I am beginning to realize that within the context of the parameters and restrictions set out by this website and the RP, bearing in mind social pressures and personal limitations, I'VE GOT THE POWER!"

[+Sorana]

I leaned back in my chair, still confused by my too many personalities. Musing for a while I then decided that it didn't really matter for anyone except me and therefore could be counted out as unimportant.

Creating some guacamole I sat down and observed the other gods. Wait? Why? Did that even make sense? "Time to join the rest for lunch." the one I was representing decided and suddenly I became nothing more but a bunch of words on a screen. Unimportant compared to what? A lunch break? I tried to throw some guacamole in her direction, but she simply pressed sumbit reply and walked away.

Edited November 22, 2018 by Sorana

[Karnatheon]

"So, just my two cents here. If the whole point of Hellbent's quest was to save himself, and the only way to fix himself is to be granted an Alleyshard, why would not giving him one turn him into an uber demon and not just cause him to die? He was literraly dying before he showed up here, Ark. I realize that you love your creation, and you are currently using your powers to sustain him, but this whole thing feels like I'm being railroaded. As was said previously, you decided to come up with these ultra powered weapons without mentioning it to anyone, which in and of itself is not a problem. Then you decide to give us a vote about the fate of Hellbent. But all the options end up with Hellbent wielding a weapon of such immense godlike power he will be unstoppable, or he ends up being just as powerful for some reason, but evil. I know that I am a significantly newer member here than most of you, but if you're going to spring something like this on us out of the blue, I honestly feel like the no weapon option should cause Hellbent to die. Permanently. I may be the only person who feels this way, but it is the way I felt. As far as the whole God/Avatar/Author thing goes, I don't know that it needs to be defined. But I assumed that it was going to be limited to the other side of the world, and the mountain of the gods. If we start messing with the majority of the Alleyverse directly, that gives too much potential for power abuse. The Avatars that we as literal people write into our posts are effectively characters once we untroduce them. And I feel like there has been a good effort from everyone to limit the characters they create in game, reducing power levels and maintaining weaknesses and such. But if we started introducing us as characters in the grand scheme of things we would all be way too powerful and I feel like that would not be fun. It's fun to break the fourth wall don't get me wrong. But I feel like it should be in a dedicated thread, with no spillage to the rest of the Alleyverse. Just my thoughts."

Tldr; Alleyshards super op. 4th voting option should kill Hellbent in case no one wants him to have a shard. We should limit our avatars to this thread and the other side of the world otherwise we just become OP characters we made for the Alleyverse and that won't be fun.

Edited November 22, 2018 by Karnatheon

[I think I am here.]

“I agree with everything that man just said,” I said, pointing to the man who’d said. But yeah, I don’t want to pressure Ark into killing his character. If you want to keep him around, go ahead, I just would prefer if you didn’t give us a choice like this is effectively a veiled forcing of our hands. If Hellbent doesn’t get a Shard, he goes super-evil. I say I welcome the challenge.

Because I do welcome it. I think. Do I? I think, therefore I am. Or am I? Do I exist? If everyone believes I don’t, do I? If everyone believes I do, but I don’t, where do I stand? What is existence? Just the act of being? If something is simply a word on a page, does it exist? Or does merely the idea of it exist? Are the two one and the same? If so, does non-existence exist, because the idea of it does. Does zero exist? That would be impossible. Zero is nothing. Does nothing exist? Do I exist? Am I nothing? Is nothing me? Is nothing all of us? Is nothing everything? No, that would mean everything is also nothing, so one could say there is no existence, only everything and nothing at once, in this fraction of a moment.

Beautiful. I have written my Manifesto.

[Karnatheon]

"Yes. You are asking for our input on a very important decision, that could have large consequences in the Alleyverse. But, honestly, it feels like you already made the decision that Hellbent is going to be super powerful no matter what we say or want."