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John Flamesinger

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Let me get this straight. In Mistborn: A Secret History, Hoid takes a bit of Lurasium from the Well of Ascension. If Wit on Roshar is Hoid, then he also has a Cryptic, which could mean that he is now a Lightweaver. And then, in the final chapter of Oathbringer, it says something about repressing his healing, which hints at him being a Returned from Warbreaker. How much damage would that much Investiture close to your soul do to you? And how would his Connections in the Spiritual Realm be affected? 

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Welcome to the Shard!

Hoid is not a Returned though he has at least enough Breath to have reached the Second Heightening. His healing is something else entirely:

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Matrim [PENDING REVIEW]

Hoid gets his tooth knocked out while in Kholinar. He prompts somebody else to help him with that. Is that because he has issues hurting not only other people but himself?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Yep.

Matrim [PENDING REVIEW]

And then he considers healing that at a later point in time. Which magic system does he consider using to heal that?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

A magic system that predates-- predates any of the others.

source

As mentioned offhandedly in that WoB (and implied in his appearance in Mistborn Secret History) Hoid is physically incapable of harming people to the point that even contemplating inflicting physical harm will nauseate him to the point of incapacity. Additionally Brandon has said that Hoid's spiritweb is weird, moreso even than a savant. He was human once but now he's not, exactly. He's also really truly unfathomably old. Like, older than the Shards old.

In short, Hoid is... Hoid. B)

Edited by Weltall
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@John Flamesinger , @Weltall, @goody153 here are some interesting relevant WoB's.

V_Spaceman

I was wondering if you could elaborate on a past wob. You said that Hoid and Frost are two of the oldest beings in the Cosmere. Does that include the vessels? Are the original 16 vessels younger than Hoid and Frost?

Brandon Sanderson

In the current outline, Hoid predates the others by a bit--he'd already started aging oddly before the Shattering. But that's not strict cannon yet. (You can find evidence of it in Dragonsteel.)

source

Questioner

Probably a question you are not going to want to answer but how old is Hoid?

Brandon Sanderson

How old is Hoid? ...Hoid is older than the Shattering of Adonalsium. Hey there is an answer for you! He is very old.

source

Questioner

Is Hoid a dragon?

Brandon Sanderson

Oh I will give you a RAFO card. You're very good, Have you read Dragonsteel?

Questioner

I have not but--

Brandon Sanderson

Don't read it, it's bad.

Questioner

Okay then. I am just-- What? Okay then. That's awesome. We have some ideas but-- Hoid is amazing. I figured he was really old but it's cool knowing for sure that he's exceptionally old.

Brandon Sanderson

He is one of the oldest people in the cosmere, but he is not the oldest.

Questioner

Ahhh...

Brandon Sanderson

The person he is writing a letter to is indeed older than he is.

source

 

The_Vikachu

How old is Hoid? Or better yet (to avoid any trickiness), how many years has he lived through?

Brandon Sanderson

He's been alive since Dragonsteel. However, he may not have spent all of that time awake and alert.

source

 

 

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Except that he couldn't be older then the Shards. Hoid was one of the original conspirators to kill Adonlisum ( I might of misspelled that), but didn't help in the end. He is probably about the same age as the original Vessals, and even if you were talking about the Shards themselves, I think Adonlisum created Yolen, and therefore, Humanity. Hoid was originally Human.

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4 minutes ago, John Flamesinger said:

Except that he couldn't be older then the Shards. Hoid was one of the original conspirators to kill Adonlisum ( I might of misspelled that), but didn't help in the end. He is probably about the same age as the original Vessals, and even if you were talking about the Shards themselves, I think Adonlisum created Yolen, and therefore, Humanity. Hoid was originally Human.

Ummm, Brandon says quite directly that Hoid is the second oldest being in the Cosmere after Frost. That means that yes, he's older than the Shards by definition. While neither Liar of Partinel nor Dragonsteel Prime are canon, we know that the former is Hoid's origin story and at one point he planned for it to take place around five hundred years before the start of Dragonsteel.

That Adonalsium may have created life in the Cosmere (a fact that Brandon is careful to say is widely believed, not confirmed to be true) doesn't have any bearing on Hoid's relative age.

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3 hours ago, Weltall said:

Ummm, Brandon says quite directly that Hoid is the second oldest being in the Cosmere after Frost. That means that yes, he's older than the Shards by definition. While neither Liar of Partinel nor Dragonsteel Prime are canon, we know that the former is Hoid's origin story and at one point he planned for it to take place around five hundred years before the start of Dragonsteel.

That Adonalsium may have created life in the Cosmere (a fact that Brandon is careful to say is widely believed, not confirmed to be true) doesn't have any bearing on Hoid's relative age.

That could've just meant a few years. I mean you could be older than me but that doesn't mean you're older than 500 years than me. That's just stretching the WoB's.

Also previous story or none-cannon mean nothing.

We also know that initially in the Well of Ascension Endowment was also one of the mist spirits but that was so far from the final as Endowment has zero involvement whatsoever.

Hell even the original Stormlight was so different from the actual stormlight archives with Dalinar killing Elhokar. Adolin dying and Kaladin getting rewarded with a shard instead of coming from Syl. There were no spren even back then.

 

Hoid might be second oldest due to immortality but i highly doubt he was old-old like you say. That's just stretching the WoB's.  A few years yes but really old. Nah

Edited by goody153
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On 11/21/2018 at 3:58 PM, Ookla the Gralsritter said:

Ummm, Brandon says quite directly that Hoid is the second oldest being in the Cosmere after Frost. That means that yes, he's older than the Shards by definition. While neither Liar of Partinel nor Dragonsteel Prime are canon, we know that the former is Hoid's origin story and at one point he planned for it to take place around five hundred years before the start of Dragonsteel.

That Adonalsium may have created life in the Cosmere (a fact that Brandon is careful to say is widely believed, not confirmed to be true) doesn't have any bearing on Hoid's relative age.

Correct me if Im wrong, but I dont think that's actually stated. It says he is not the oldest, and confirmed that Frost is Older, but that doesnt confirm that there are no other immortals and/or Dragons running around that beat them both.  Hell, the Highstorm predates the Shattering, so there's a reasonable possibility that the Stormfather does as well. 

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He does say that directly.

Quote

William Anderson

Who is the oldest character we know?

Brandon Sanderson

Frost is almost certainly the oldest by a small amount. After that, Hoid.

source

"by a small amount" meaning Hoid isn't much younger than Frost. Unless some things have drastically changed, Frost is significantly older than the Vessels.

Edit: and this one for the confirmation. Still subject to change, but until it's contradicted... 

Quote

V_Spaceman

I was wondering if you could elaborate on a past wob. You said that Hoid and Frost are two of the oldest beings in the Cosmere. Does that include the vessels? Are the original 16 vessels younger than Hoid and Frost?

Brandon Sanderson

In the current outline, Hoid predates the others by a bit--he'd already started aging oddly before the Shattering. But that's not strict canon yet. (You can find evidence of it in Dragonsteel.)

source

 

Edited by Calderis
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On 12/1/2018 at 2:09 PM, Calderis said:

He does say that directly.

"by a small amount" meaning Hoid isn't much younger than Frost. Unless some things have drastically changed, Frost is significantly older than the Vessels.

Edit: and this one for the confirmation. Still subject to change, but until it's contradicted... 

 

I stand Corrected, Thanks!

I was only aware of this one that just Confirmed Frost was an example of somebody older. 

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34 minutes ago, John Flamesinger said:

And plus, we don't know if the God Beyond is a shard, another name for Adonalsium, or if he is just part of a religion.

The God Beyond is not a Shard or Adonalsium. It is the in world belief in a real, creator type, all powerful God. It is the story equivalent of believing in God in real life. As such, it will never be confirmed or denied in story to respect the beliefs of both in world characters, and readers. 

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Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

After people die, in this universe, where do they go? Because, at first they appear in the <?>, and then they go somewhere else.

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

One of the things that's very important to me as a writer, when I am writing stories, is when we get to these kind of fundamental questions about faith and religion and things like this, that the narrative is allowing multiple characters' viewpoints to be plausibly true, if this makes sense. For instance, I am not gonna come out and say, "Is there a capital-G God of the cosmere, is there an afterlife?" These are not questions I'm gonna answer, because in-world, they can't answer them. What they can say is, your Investiture will leave what we call a Cognitive Shadow, which is an imprint of your personality that can do certain things. And that most of those fade away, and you can see them, glimpse them, and then watch them go. But, are they going somewhere? Or are they not? Is that simply the Investiture being reclaimed, Is it more of a Buddhist thought, where your soul is getting recycled and used again? Is it nothing, you return to, you know, being... yeah, is it a different type of matter? Or is there a Beyond, is there a capital-G God? These questions are not answered. I'm never gonna answer those.

Now, the characters will try to answer them. But it's important to me that both Dalinar and Jasnah can exist in the same universe, and that the story is not saying "This one is right, and this one is wrong." The story is saying "This is how this one sees the world; this is how this one sees the world." It's very important to me from the beginning to do that, just because... Like, I hate reading a book where someone espouses my viewpoint only to get proven wrong by the entire structure of the narrative, and in that universe, that person is wrong. But I'm like, "In our universe, I don't think that I am. Just the way you constructed everything makes it so that I have to be wrong, if I were living in your universe, even if it's not a sci-fi/fantasy one." If that makes sense.

This is just kind of for respecting my characters and for the people who hold the viewpoints of my characters, in particular if they happen to be different from my own viewpoints. I feel there are certain lines I'm not gonna cross.

So, the answer is: who do you believe? Which of the philosophies in the books do you look at and say "Yeah!" Or, even better: listen to lots of different ones, and maybe these different viewpoints are all gonna have interesting points that'll things to think upon.

source

Belief in the Beyond and the God Beyond are entirely up to your opinion. 

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Regarding Hoid's age.....that "predates the others by a bit" is super vague considering the Cosmere scale.

When I say someone is "a few" years older than me, I'm ballparking roughly 5 years.   But when you're 10000-ish years old and essentially immortal....seems like it could be anything from 200 to 2000 years. 

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New data on the title of Oldest in the Cosmere:

 

Quote

 

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

Who is the oldest person in the Cosmere?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

I've been asked this before, and I think I RAFO'ed it. Frost is up there. But I don't think Frost is actually the oldest.

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

So to be determined?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

RAFO.

source

 

 

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1 hour ago, Quantus said:

New data on the title of Oldest in the Cosmere:

1 hour ago, Quantus said:

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

Who is the oldest person in the Cosmere?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

I've been asked this before, and I think I RAFO'ed it. Frost is up there. But I don't think Frost is actually the oldest.

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

So to be determined?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

RAFO.

source

This can still line up with the older WoB that @Calderis linked, which asks "who is the oldest character we know."

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4 minutes ago, Scion of the Mists said:

This can still line up with the older WoB that @Calderis linked, which asks "who is the oldest character we know."

True, it still fits with the WOB, just not with the interpretation that it meant Frost was actually the Oldest in the Cosmere as @Weltall said.  Folks were (reasonably) taking it to mean that Frost and Hoid had the #1 and #2 spots in the whole Cosmere, not just of the characters we've seen.  Personally I suspect this new qualification is to allow for other Immortals and/or Dragons to eventually make an appearance with being locked in to any specific relative Age.  Maybe Frost has a mentor out there, or some such? 

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On 12/5/2018 at 6:56 PM, John Flamesinger said:

Bod Geyond? 
Do you perhaps mean God Beyond? And plus, we don't know if the God Beyond is a shard, another name for Adonalsium, or if he is just part of a religion.

 

Sorry, did your answer have anything to do with humor?

I don't know.

Dude, we already have spell check on our computer/phones, I doubt somebody would put Bod Geyond on accident

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On 12/3/2018 at 10:17 AM, Ripheus23 said:

Hoid has so much power that you do indeed need two L's in the word "powerful[l]" to adequately describe his awesome might. Only Adonalsium was ever more powerfulll. Well and the Bod Geyond is really, really powerfullllllllll...lll.

Bod Geyond? 
Do you perhaps mean God Beyond? And plus, we don't know if the God Beyond is a shard, another name for Adonalsium, or if he is just part of a religion.

 

Sorry, did your answer have anything to do with humor?

I don't know.

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