+Invocation Posted November 19, 2018 Report Share Posted November 19, 2018 Why was TenSoon able to use the Blessing made for OreSeur? Was it just because he killed him and that negated the specific requirement that only OreSeur could use those spikes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSuperLee Posted November 19, 2018 Report Share Posted November 19, 2018 44 minutes ago, Invocation said: Why was TenSoon able to use the Blessing made for OreSeur? Was it just because he killed him and that negated the specific requirement that only OreSeur could use those spikes? Spikes can be used by anyone as long as they're put in the right place. There is no specific requirement for using a spike. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Invocation Posted November 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2018 9 minutes ago, HSuperLee said: Spikes can be used by anyone as long as they're put in the right place. There is no specific requirement for using a spike. Then what was the deal with Paalm getting each spike specifically made for her and everyone making a big deal out of that. They tried give ReLuur his mind back by giving him one of TenSoon's spikes and he spat it back out, begging for his. That's what actually brought this to mind, was reading that scene and remembering something about MeLaan saying TenSoon "inherited" OreSeur's spikes and Blessing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSuperLee Posted November 19, 2018 Report Share Posted November 19, 2018 1 minute ago, Invocation said: Then what was the deal with Paalm getting each spike specifically made for her and everyone making a big deal out of that. They tried give ReLuur his mind back by giving him one of TenSoon's spikes and he spat it back out, begging for his. That's what actually brought this to mind, was reading that scene and remembering something about MeLaan saying TenSoon "inherited" OreSeur's spikes and Blessing. It's mostly just a Kandra cultural taboo. The spikes do keep a piece of the Identity of the person whom the attribute was taken from, so it makes sense Kandra would be able to discern between them. That said, the only reason I can think of for ReLuur rejecting the spike is that he knew it wasn't his and in his madness was simply too disgusted to do anything but reject it. There is no realmatic reason that we've heard for Kandra not being able to share spikes. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Invocation Posted November 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, HSuperLee said: It's mostly just a Kandra cultural taboo. The spikes do keep a piece of the Identity of the person whom the attribute was taken from, so it makes sense Kandra would be able to discern between them. That said, the only reason I can think of for ReLuur rejecting the spike is that he knew it wasn't his and in his madness was simply too disgusted to do anything but reject it. There is no realmatic reason that we've heard for Kandra not being able to share spikes. Fair enough. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeiryWriter Posted November 19, 2018 Report Share Posted November 19, 2018 Actually Brandon has implied that there is something special about kandra spikes that make them kandra spikes. Part of the reason TenSoon did not have any issues with using OreSeur's spikes was because they were in addition to his own, not replacing his own. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel Inquisitive Posted November 19, 2018 Report Share Posted November 19, 2018 That makes sense! Do Kandra spikes have to be allomantic or feruchemical? Or can they be from anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Invocation Posted November 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2018 13 minutes ago, Steel Inqusitive said: That makes sense! Do Kandra spikes have to be allomantic or feruchemical? Or can they be from anyone? There's a special process to it that Harmony knows and presumably Paalm knew as well, but no one else. That's all I think we know about the creation of kandra spikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara Posted November 20, 2018 Report Share Posted November 20, 2018 Because TenSoon has his original two spikes, adding more to them doesn't harm him. If he were to remove one of his main spikes and try to use one OreSeur's, then he would have the same problems that ReLuur did, if you ask me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSuperLee Posted November 20, 2018 Report Share Posted November 20, 2018 Do we know what ReLuur's blessing was? There might be some incompatibility with trying to mix different blessings. Granted, Tensoon had 2 of the 4 types, so there's a 50% chance there was a match to begin with. I can't see how the two spikes themselves would match considering they would have had to be taken from two separate people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+robardin Posted November 20, 2018 Report Share Posted November 20, 2018 17 hours ago, HSuperLee said: Do we know what ReLuur's blessing was? There might be some incompatibility with trying to mix different blessings. Granted, Tensoon had 2 of the 4 types, so there's a 50% chance there was a match to begin with. I can't see how the two spikes themselves would match considering they would have had to be taken from two separate people. At least one of them was the Blessing of Potency - like inexhaustible pewter, with a lesser effect. TenSoon thinks to himself while recovering OreSeur's spikes that he'd hidden before returning to the Homeland how he'd never have been able to follow Vin without it. What I'm wondering is if TenSoon recovered them after the Catacendre. He'd pulled his spikes out as part of the Resolution, and then later, Harmony restored their spikes, but what about OreSeur's? In Shadows of Self, Wax perceives TenSoon approaching him in the darkness under the Originators' Tomb with Steelsight as two faint blue lines to metal - which I read as being faint because they're his hemalurgic spikes. But there are two blue lines, not four. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lidolas Posted November 20, 2018 Report Share Posted November 20, 2018 19 hours ago, Steel Inqusitive said: That makes sense! Do Kandra spikes have to be allomantic or feruchemical? Or can they be from anyone? There's this old WoB. Quote Brandon Sanderson The Mechanism of Hemalurgy The Blessings and the workings of Hemalurgy gave me some trouble as I designed the second and third books of this series. On one hand, I liked the way Hemalurgy worked by stealing powers from Allomancers or Feruchemists and giving them to other people. However, if I was going to limit myself to sixteen metals and be able to steal both Allomancy and Feruchemy, that meant I needed a mechanism to determine which power got stolen. If, for instance, you drove a pewter spike into a person who was both an Allomancer and a Feruchemist, then how would that spike know which power to suck out and grant to the one who would gain it? As I was toying with how this would work, I realized that I needed to work the kandra and the koloss into this as well. Only, it was ridiculous to assume that the Lord Ruler would kill Allomancers to make koloss. There weren't enough Allomancers, for one thing—plus it would be foolish to lose the power of an Allomancer to gain an inferior tool in a koloss. So that meant koloss had to be made out of regular people, not Allomancers or Feruchemists. Suddenly I had another set of abilities that Hemalurgy had to be able to steal—the basic pieces of Preservation inside the souls of all men. Hence the decision that where the spike was placed in the receiver, and how it was used to kill a person, influenced how the power was shaped. Now a pewter spike could steal any of a number of powers, based on how it was used. And regular people could be used instead of Allomancers—however, when that happened, the receiver was twisted much more than if an Allomantically charged spike or a Feruchemically charged spike was used. My rationale for this is that if the spike is pulling out the pure power of Preservation—part of the power of all creation—and twisting it, it would change the body of the recipient greatly. Twisting them through use of the twisted power. The only problem is, he mentions working kandra and koloss into Hemalurgy, but then only talks about using non-allomantic/feruchimacal spikes on koloss, not kandra. But it seems to me that it would be the same. source 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted November 23, 2018 Report Share Posted November 23, 2018 While there is some element of tailoring to them, I agree the the prohibition is more cultural than anything else per this WoB Quote BlackYeti Kandra, you're not getting any more of those. But they can die, so what's stopping them from creating new kandra out of the mistwraith just by recycling the Blessings? Brandon Sanderson That is mostly just cultural. *paraphrased* In The Bands of Mourning, you might expect to see kandra using other kandra's spikes. source I don't think ReLuur is a good example. He wasn't exactly in his right mind. The entire concept if a hemalurgic spike retaining identity from the person they are embedded in and making them unusable to others makes no sense. I'm aware that there is a WoB that says this, but it's directly countermanded by the text which tells us that inquisitors regularly reused spikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king of nowhere Posted November 24, 2018 Report Share Posted November 24, 2018 On 20/11/2018 at 1:03 AM, RShara said: Because TenSoon has his original two spikes, adding more to them doesn't harm him. If he were to remove one of his main spikes and try to use one OreSeur's, then he would have the same problems that ReLuur did, if you ask me. +1 and it's also possible blessings are made to work in pairs, and so getting only half a set is bad. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSuperLee Posted November 24, 2018 Report Share Posted November 24, 2018 Just now, king of nowhere said: +1 and it's also possible blessings are made to work in pairs, and so getting only half a set is bad. I do not see how that is possible, when each spike would need to have been made from a different person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted November 24, 2018 Report Share Posted November 24, 2018 (edited) We know they're made to work in pairs. Every Kandra has a single blessing, (potency, presence, etc.) that is composed of two spikes. Edited November 24, 2018 by Calderis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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