5/19/2014 - Sprouts - Human Gods(v)

[Sprouts]

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I've been reading these for ~2 years now.  Happy to finally to have something to submit.

 

It's a short sci-fi story, and is around 7000 words, so it's slightly over the recommended submission amount.  But hopefully not by too much.

 

I'll take as much feedback as I can get, about anything at all.

 

Thanks in advance to any and all that read and/or critique!

 

Edited May 19, 2014 by Sprouts

[andyk]

Th writing was generally good and engaged me from the start. It's a bit too adjective heavy early on, and you use some words that almost always weaken the impact of sentences, like 'slightly' and 'a little'. But there are some good descriptive details, for example the first time he's collected, which was cool.

My biggest problem with the story was that Will seemed very passive. He didn't really try to challenge himself or grapple with his situation in his head, and his actions were always dictated by others rather than himself. Even near the end, when he's trying to choose death, he's not acting to let it happen, just not resisting. Making him more active in his engagement with the situation would make him more engaging.

Overall I thought it was an interesting situation and the story did a decent job of exploring it.

[Asmodemon]

I don’t have much to say, I quite enjoyed this story.

 

Will: I liked how Will finally stood up to the council and that in the end he made a choice for himself – choosing to die – even if that was futile. That said, him making decisions on his own only happened near the end, for the remainder of the story he was very passive. Things happened to him and he underwent them.

 

I understand that the choice he made, to die, is hinged on him becoming tired of the life he leads and part of that is him being tired of the programming he’s had – programming which makes him passive and follow orders – but that doesn’t make him very engaging.

 

I do have to say that the story interested me enough that Will being passive didn’t bother me as much as other stories have, who had passive protagonists.

 

Voice: The voice inside Will’s head seems like the part of him that has shaken off his programming and I like that part – the way he’s conflicted about it. Maybe the flaws in his programming should have come out a little sooner?

 

Ending: First of all, I liked the ending, it was inevitable that Will would get tired of his lot in life. I was half expecting him to join the rebellion, but this was better: resisting by choosing to die. I’d have liked to have seen him fight more for his right to die than he did, that way the end of the story (where he failed to do even that) would be more poignant, I think.

 

Right now he simply underwent everything that happened. I’d have liked to have seen him struggle in some way against getting collected. Maybe to have him try to die faster before the collectors get him and the cycle starts all over again. After all, he knew that the soldiers who were hurt badly enough couldn’t be revived, so if he damaged himself enough before the collector got to him…

 

Language:  Language-wise I think you can prune a lot of adjectives from the story. Especially in the beginning I found the descriptions bordering on being purple. It got better later on. 

[Sprouts]

Thanks for reading!  I've been really busy all day so I haven't had much time to respond, but here we go.

 

@andyk

I definitely agree on my overuse of words like "slightly" or "seemed", I've actually combed a lot of those out, but it's for sure something I'm pretty bad about.

 

@Asmodemon

I came up with the internal voice talking back to him later in the story, kind of a spur-of-the-moment idea.  So that's mainly why that showed up when it did.  I'll definitely focus on integrating it into the story a little earlier.

 

On passivity:

Any tips on how I should get around this?  I'm really bad at coming up with stuff for Will to say, hence him only having one speaking line in the entire story.

 

Other things:

How well did you guys grasp the world, and how soon?  I know that some of the people I showed this to before I threw in Epigraphs and location/time tags were extremely fuzzy on how everything worked out.  Did the Epigraphs and tags help out?

 

Which scenes were the weakest?

 

Ouroboros reference, did it work?  Most people I've talked to didn't know what it was, and assumed I would explain it later, so I'm questioning using it.  But I really like it, as I feel it fits the structure and theme of the story.

 

I'll post again If I remember any of the other stuff I was meaning to ask.

Edited May 19, 2014 by Sprouts

[Mandamon]

pg 1:

you had me until "spinal column."  It's too specific a word compared with the rhythm of "fire in his abdomen" and "crimson snake of his blood."  Maybe just "spine" instead.

 

pg1: had to look up "hypovolemic"

 

A couple examples of places where you use a comma instead of a period or semicolon:

pg 1: "A bad idea, lightning seemed to rush up and down his body."

 

pg 10: "Any UniCel soldiers currently deployed onto the

ground would be marked down as acceptable losses, Will was glad he wasn't one of them."

 

overall, this is a solid story, well written and easy to read.  And yes, it could stand some adjective trimming.

I would say there's not really any new concepts or themes here.  The concept of forced life through creation of a new body goes back probably to the 1950s^{[citation needed]} in terms of storytelling (in fact, there's a movie about it with Tom Cruise coming out soon...).

I also agree with andyk on Will's passivity.  I think that can be helped with Asmodemon's suggestion about bringing in the flaws in Will's programming sooner, and maybe make that a larger or more overt part of the story.  That way, Will gets some more action in exploring what's changing in him.  You can also create some more differences between this story and others that tackle the same issue.  Will doesn't have to speak to be active; he just has to decide and carry out action that changes his situation.

 

I do like the epigraphs.  They made the world a lot clearer to me.  The Ouroboros reference didn't do much for me, as it's clear pretty quickly that Will's life is circular.  If people are confused by it, you could get rid of it for another piece of worldbuilding and I don't think the story would lose anything.

 

I didn't see any particularly weak scenes, but I also wasn't ever really surprised by the story.  Will taking some unusual action might help with that.

[jParker]

By and large, I agree with everyone so far. Really cool setting, interesting conflict--between duty and self-will, especially when self-will isn't entirely your own--but Will really falls flat for me. He feels like a character in a YA book, a reader-substitute. His personality seems absent--fitting, since he's a robot/cyborg/android/whatever--but I want him to be striving toward something. He's just human enough to be able to have those goals, to have a dream beyond fighting the next day. 

 

On the other hand, I really like what you did with Sam, who perfectly illustrates the reality of the enlisted man. Being a living rifle, told only where to go and who to kill, takes its toll, one that is usually paid with booze and sex during leave. The fact that he checked out first makes sense. He was unsatisfied and took action to seek satisfaction.

 

However (yes, I love counter-argument segues, deal with it), the Humans seem really out of character. Simply saying, "You're a robot, you do what I say and if you don't like it, you die," isn't really a good leadership style and the setting seems near enough in the future that sci-fi racism might not have fully set in, especially if Lineants look like us. Try out an inspirational speech of why it is an honor and a privilege to massacre one's own people and see how that fits. Maybe. It's your story after all.

 

Similarly, on a very small note, the captain shouldn't have introduce himself as such. If they're having a brief, they ought to be BDUs, which have rank patches on the chest; anyone with eyes to see would know that he's the swinging cod in the room. 

 

All in all though, I really liked it.

[Sprouts]

@Mandamon and @jParker

Yeah Will's been a sticking point for me, I feel like I ended up using him as a camera to show the world and Sam.  I'm planning on seeding some of the internal dialogue/bickering earlier in the story.  Maybe give him some side interests or hobbies that he can focus on when he pulls up his Interface.

 

@jParker

The climax(at least in my eyes) where Will speaks up against his assignment, and the Councilman responds has been through a bunch of revisions.  At first I had the Councilman seem almost a little mocking, as if a tool or piece of equipment was talking back to him.  But when I added to the Epigraphs, which in my mind are written by the Councilman, I decided to make him seem a little more troubled/reserved, kind of like he was just saying what he was supposed to out loud, but not really believing it.  I don't think it really came off how I wanted it too, so I'll mark that down as something to look into more.

 

Maybe once I get Will's character up to snuff(as in give him some sort of personality) I'll have more to work with in that scene.

[Robinski]

It’s an interesting concept for a story, what I saw as being the perspective of a solider fighting for the established (oppressive) order against the revolution, and developing principles that oppose his role in society. The difficulty I had was feeling that this wasn’t explored in enough depth, I didn’t really feel invested in the character of Will, the cause of the Lineants or the nature of Human society, which was painted as very ‘black-and-white’ Humans evil, Lineants downtrodden.

 

This notwithstanding, I found the ending effective, well done, but it could have had a much greater impact if I had been invested in the character and the theme of recovery and rejuvenation, which I think could have been stressed more as a central theme.

 

There’s an interesting idea here, but I think the realisation of it would be improved by concentrating more on what I thought were the main themes, and less on the procedure and practicalities of being a soldier.

 

---------------------------------------------------------

 

Page 2 – So far, I’m okay with your writing style, you’ve got some bold images going on, but I feel that I'm not really invested in the character, I don’t know enough about Will, what he’s doing, what kind of person he is, so I don’t really care what happens to him (so far).

 

Page 4 – As I read on, I'm starting to find the style rather wordy. There are more direct ways to express a lot of what’s going on, I think. It is a short piece and I think it would be better served by being shorter.

 

Page 5 – The dialogue about unassigned time sounds ‘maid-and-butler’ – not something someone would say when all three of them already know it.

 

Page 5 – As it happens, the story I'm working on now uses time checks as headings. I'm not sure I see the point of including the seconds as ‘00’ in all of them. Events don’t all happen at the start of a minute, of course. Unless you’re going to have something at a particular number of seconds, I think it’s just distracting.

 

Page 6 – I struggle with your description of the waitress. You’re describing someone who is over-weight, well into obese by the sound of it, but you do so in offensive terms, which is unnecessary. I think the narrative should be dispassionate. If those thoughts are supposed to come from Will, then he’s a misogynist. The mechanism itself, of making the waitress very ugly and having Sam think she’s attractive because he’s drunk is crude and, I think, pointless. All that’s necessary for the mechanism, if you want to keep it, is that she’s ugly, or even plain, she does not have to be repulsive.

 

Page 9 – There is quite a bit of description of procedures and processes which is rather dry.

 

Page 14 – I like the section when Will wakes up to see all new faces around him. I thought you foreshadowed that well earlier on, so the line made a real impact when it landed.

 

Page 16 – When we get to the section where Will faces the prospect of killing fellow Lineants, I struggled. I think it was because I had no real sense that Will was not human. He thinks, talks and behaves like a human – which I'm sure an effective ‘copy’ would do, but I think this lack of distinction makes it harder to accept Will’s dilemma.

[Robinski]

Maybe give him some side interests or hobbies.

 

But when I added to the Epigraphs, which in my mind are written by the Councilman.

 

For me, the last thing you need is more baggage - I don't think hobbies are the way to make Will more interesting - I think it should come through his thoughts on events around him and him reacting to those events.

 

As for the epigraphs, I didn't get the sense that they were written by the Councilman, and I found them a bit flowery for my taste. I think you coudl make it clearer where those notes come from, and maybe review them for focus - often, less is more.

Edited May 25, 2014 by Robinski

[LerroyJenkins]

Not a whole lot to say here, I'll be brief. I liked this story a lot, though I think you could chop it down into a good intro to cool setting.

 

I agree with the rest of the critiques in that Will needs a little more work. Although there are somethings that I am surprised that no one mentioned specifically as good empathetic traits; receding into ones mind during mundane or difficult times for example. 

 

personally, I don't think Robinski's note about page six is completely warranted. Will's harsh reception of the homely waitress's appearance shows a good subtle glimpse into his persona. To me it makes him seem inclined to be analytical and critical, and bound to be a little abrasive during conversation. This leads me into Sam's generous(though beer goggled) perception of the situation. I think that Sam's short dialogue is one of the only hints at how drunken he is becoming. The problem with the scene in my mind is the open end it leaves in the sense of mood. Initially I took it as a light hearted posturing between comrades, but when I played it back in my mind as crude and Misogynistic comment by Sam the scene held a very good somber color.

 

I would love to see more work like this 

[Robinski]

Lerroy, I'm glad you called me on my assessment of the bar scene, it sent me back to look at it again. I remain of the view that the scene can work, but I still have a problem with Will's aggressive dislike of the waitress. Whether it's conscious or not, thinking of someone as a 'beast', I think, goes beyond derogatory, and that's compounded by the thought that she can't speak properly either. I think these traits diminish the scene. Instead of coming away focused on Sam's mental state, our attention (I think) is concentrated at least as much on the waitress and Will's response to her, which shouldn't be the case.

 

I don't see why she needs to speak in a strange way as well as being obese. I still believe the scene would be more effective if the waitress was grumpy and plain or just unattractive. Taking all this though, the thing that delivers the punch and led me to use the word 'misogynist' is Sam's attitude. The waitress may be ugly and fat, but his reaction seems out of character. I don't seen anything in the rest of the story that leads to his use of the word 'beast' describe her, which I think clearly goes beyond descriptive into hateful.The fact that the waitress is the only female character in the story compounds my feeling on this.

 

I must stress that I did enjoy the story, and I would happily read an updated version - but that one (albeit small) aspect, I feel, detracts from the whole because of what I saw as an inconsistency in Sam's character.