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Toaster Retribution

The Heralds who survive...

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Brandon dropped a WoB that says that some of the Heralds will get POVs. Those who live long enough. 

So, Jezrien is gone. Anyone want to place their bets on other Heralds who might kick the bucket?

Edited by Toaster Retribution
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Ishar as Odium may not like the competition

Kalak because he is too reliant on Nale.

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Well we've known that Taln and Ash will get flashback books in the back five. Even so, just because they will have PoVs doesn't mean they'll survive to that point.

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I don't think Nale will make it much longer... Switching sides to a hateful god, who's actively killing heralds, doesn't seem conducive to a long life.

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I think they're going to have to take down Ishar.  

And there's going to be outcry/resistance since he's a revered figure by people and by other Heralds.

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I was about to say the one in Tukar, but I realize now that that is Ishar and everyone else beat me to it. 

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Ishar and Nale. Both haven't been keeping a low profile. 

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Are we talking Heralds that die in the front 5, or in SA as a whole?

I'd bet lots of money that none of the current-Heralds are alive when SA-10 ends.

If I were Odium or his forces, then I would concentrate on trying to find the Heralds who haven't been very conspicuous or obvious in order to kill them first.  After they're dead, use Nale to attack Ishar, and then kill them both from surprise while they're distracted and weakened.  Odium seems to be a vengeful guy, and those ten stood in his way for a LONG time; I think that he would allow himself to be imprisoned for a bit longer if it ensured that he'd be able to destroy them.

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The only ones that might and I am stressing the might are Ash and Taln. But not because Odium gets to them, but because Jasnah gives them the ax herself. She is definitely the "If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself" kind of gal. And I don't think Ivory would stop her.

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Supposedly we are also getting Eshonai POV in coming books, so that alone is probably not any guarentee they will survive to the "current" events of the incoming books.

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I wonder if Chana dies sooner or later as well. I think Ash will be a Dustbringer, and it might be wierd if the original Dustbringer Herald was alive for that.

Edited by Toaster Retribution
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12 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

I think Ash will be a Dustbringer

Ash the Herald? Can Heralds even get a Nahel bond with another type of spren?

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28 minutes ago, Gavtyven said:

 

Ash the Herald? Can Heralds even get a Nahel bond with another type of spren?

Probably. Nale bonded a Skybreaker spren. Nothing says that they are able to bond their own kind of spren only. Ash for Dustbringer is a pretty popular theory. 

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On 11/11/2018 at 2:52 PM, Toaster Retribution said:

Brandon dropped a WoB that says that some of the Heralds will get POVs. Those who live long enough. 

So, Jezrien is gone. Anyone want to place their bets on other Heralds who might kick the bucket?

I take that to mean if they make it to the back five since that is where he says he'll focus on the heralds. I think all or nearly all the Heralds will be gone by the end of SA book 10, but I'd say five or six make it to back five. 

Nale, Ishar and Battar won't survive the front 5. They've been identified and are very active in conflicts in the present. Nale is on Odium / the Singers side and will need to be dealt with, Ishar is a belligerent warmonger now and he's made threats to Dalinar and the Stormfather told Dalinar that Ishar seeks death. He seems like he's going to be a problem real soon. Battar/Dova is working for the Diagram they are with Odium now and feel like a group that won't survive the front 5. 

The heralds that have been in the background might be saved for the back five. We'll get Ash and Taln flashbacks in the back five whether they live or die in the front five, but I think they make it through front five. 

Jezrien, Nale, Ishar, Battar gone, maybe one more to have five in the back five. As far as we know there aren't any other Heralds actively involved in the major conflict right now, but if one more is gonna go I think Chana or Kalak. Brandon confirmed Chana has been on screen, people think she's Liss in WoR prologue. Kalak has definitely been on screen in the WoR prologue. Of the two I'd think Chana would die sooner because she is more of a risk taker as an assassin.

Kalak seems to be jumpy and paranoid which could help him survive. He wants to stay out of harms way, he pulls Nale away from Jasnah right before Gavilar's assassination starts. He might make it. We've gotten one Kalak PoV with the Prelude it would be nice to revisit his PoV at some point. 

Quote

#8 June 1, 2017

Wetlander

Speaking of the other Prologues… I have a looney theory that the assassin Liss is actually the Herald Chana in disguise. :D

Peter Ahlstrom

Chanaranach has definitely been seen onscreen by at least one character at least one time in the first two books.

Quote

#2 

Ruro272 (paraphrased)

Will we see all of the Heralds doing things in the upcoming books?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

The back five books are all about the Heralds. Two of them claim to be Heralds... Two of the point-of-views will be Heralds.

 

Edited by Child of Hodor
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I like the idea of Ash becoming a Dustbringer in the future and I suspect that she's going to survive long enough that she's actually alive for her viewpoint book. Taln I'm not so sure of as far as surviving to 'his' book goes.

Broadly I suspect that Nale will be one of the first to go since it's not going to be that hard for Odium to find him and I doubt the fact that he's still teaching things to Szeth will sit well with the big guy. He's quite possibly playing some sort of long-term game here (like how he prevented Szeth from swearing an Ideal that would force him to join the rest of the Skybreakers when they pledged themselves to the singers' cause) which would give Odium another reason to get rid of him as soon as practical. There's also incentive for Team Honor to do the job themselves, both to deny Odium the chance to repeat what he did with Jezrien (not that they know about that, but Jasnah's already decided killing Heralds could be a Good Thing) and because it might free up those Skybreakers who chose to swear their Third Ideal to Nale an opportunity to reevaluate their position.

Ishar's also not exactly hiding and if Odium doesn't already know where to find him, he will soon enough. He's also an obvious military threat to Team Honor right now so they've got incentive to go after him too. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Odium goes after Ishar solely to prevent him from spending any time talking directly with Dalinar and co. Even insane, there's a lot of information that he could reveal that might help Team Honor. I do want to believe that Ishar started out with the best intentions for Roshar and like Nale pre-Edgedancer, still believes he's doing good. But I don't see him living all that much longer either.

Kalak seems paranoid enough that he might survive for a long time even if Odium is actively looking for him.

Pali is hanging out in Kharbranth but we don't know whether or not Taravangian knows this. The exact words of the bargain he and Odium struck probably exclude her since he specified only people born into it or their spouses rather than everyone living in it, but if she keeps under the radar she might evade notice for a long time. We know Taravangian thinks that Dova is Battar (or at least wishes Dalinar to believe he thinks that) which might be painting a target on her back for Odium. We don't know about Vedel and while we know we've seen Chana at least once we don't know any more than that with certainty, so it's hard to predict the next steps with them.

5 hours ago, Quantus said:

Supposedly we are also getting Eshonai POV in coming books, so that alone is probably not any guarentee they will survive to the "current" events of the incoming books.

Brandon's been almost gleeful in reminding us that just because a character is known to be the focus of a future book, that doesn't guarantee they'll actually be alive at the time the main events of the book take place. The earliest example I found dates back to 2012. Eshonai just makes it really obvious that he wasn't kidding.

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6 hours ago, Gavtyven said:

 

Ash the Herald? Can Heralds even get a Nahel bond with another type of spren?

All evidence suggest they can.  We know Radiants can wield an Honorblade of a different Order, so there is no conflict there.  And Nale has bonded a Spren, so there isnt anything about the Herald's status that prevents it.  That being said, the Heralds are almost by definition the most perfectly suited candidates for their own Order, so the odds would lean strongly toward them attracting a Spren of that compatible order rather than something else (setting aside the whole Madness talk).  And at the end of the day, Spren are different than basically any other cosmere magic in that they each have an individual (non-shard) Sapient Creature that is making a Choice to Bond; that makes it a far less random, less Game-able option because at the end of the day you just have to convince a Spren to share souls with you. Simple. 

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Given that Vedel (correct me if I am wrong) is the herald of the edgedancers, she is probably hiding out and helping in small ways.

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17 hours ago, Quantus said:

That being said, the Heralds are almost by definition the most perfectly suited candidates for their own Order, so the odds would lean strongly toward them attracting a Spren of that compatible order rather than something else (setting aside the whole Madness talk).  

The Heralds’ “insanity” isn’t them just acting crazy; rather, it’s them acting counter to their original philosophies.  So Heralds in their current state are almost by definition the least suited for their Order.  This is where a lot of the support for Ash as a Dustbringer comes from.  Instead of being the patron saint of artistry and creativity, she’s straight up destroying stuff - archetypal Dustbringer. 

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17 hours ago, Gasper said:

Given that Vedel (correct me if I am wrong) is the herald of the edgedancers, she is probably hiding out and helping in small ways.

She was, but I wouldn't take that as a sign that she's trying to carry out the ideals of the Order she's the patron of. Remember that the Heralds are not bound by the Ideals so while their personalities and historical actions may have influenced the way their associated Order developed, it's not a 1:1 comparison and nothing is forcing Vedel to act at all like an Edgedancer. We know from the in-universe Words of Radiance that the Stonewards were the most like their patron Herald in temperment, which lets us know that there were orders that were less obviously following in their patron's footsteps.

Jezrien was leading nothing and protecting nothing (certainly not his liver...) prior to getting shanked by Moash, Ash is destroying artwork of herself rather than promoting creativity, Ishar's guidance/piety association has been twisted into him being a religious tyrant and Nale is fully aware that he's insane and shouldn't be relied on, the opposite of 'Confident'. We shouldn't assume Vedel is doing any better.

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2 hours ago, Scion of the Mists said:

The Heralds’ “insanity” isn’t them just acting crazy; rather, it’s them acting counter to their original philosophies.  So Heralds in their current state are almost by definition the least suited for their Order.  This is where a lot of the support for Ash as a Dustbringer comes from.  Instead of being the patron saint of artistry and creativity, she’s straight up destroying stuff - archetypal Dustbringer. 

Agreed, in that however the madness manifests it is going to mark a dramatic shift in personality, one that would or at least could make them no longer compatible with their Order.  But I would argue that it entirely depends on how their individual madness, and in some cases (like Ishar v. Bondsmiths) where there may have never been much in the way of a specific and/or common personality given how unique their Spren are.  Ishar, for example was known for "Piety and Guidance" and it looks like that may be intact but simply have shifted toward Guiding for a different God. Jezerin was Patron of Leadership and Protection and he became a drooling madman that himself needed to be led and protected like a child, rather than moving toward some other order's philosophy.  Nale, the only confirmed Radiant Herald, was previously Confidence and Justice, and he still believes in those things, he has simply lost Confidence in his own ability to identify Justice.  Meanwhile, Ash is the perfect example of how it could end up manifesting in a more directly polar way, enough to fit some other order since she was nice and primal and went from Creation to Destruction, which was still considered a virtue of another order.  

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If the Chana=Liss theory is true, Chana dying next book is very likely in my mind.

Jasnah is queen now, and undoubtedly Liss/Chana will have offers to assassinate her and her family.  Per their discussion in WoR, this will at lead to on screen discussions.  I can easily see Brandon writing Liss/Chana into the narrative in Jasnah's storyline, them becoming friends, only for Jasnah to make the connection and then kill the Herald herself.

Would be a big Jasnah development moment (especially if it turns out to be the wrong decision.)  Not sure how that would play into Moash soulstealing(?) the Heralds though.  Maybe Liss/Chana gets caught in Shadesmar after death and Moash stabs her then.

 

 

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