Tommymater

The oddity that is 10 gas giants in 1 star system

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I think brandon has stated that the roshar system is very 10 centric. Besides the unmade being 9 centic. That being said. Does it strike anyone else as just a coincidence that there is 10 gas giants in one system. If the Heralds are cognitive shadows are the gas giants the physical representation of the Heralds?. Im prepared to be schooled by everyone but im just curious

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Well, the entirety of the Rosharan system was made by Adonalsium, so there's something up with all of that, and while there are theories on this stuff, I'm 90% sure we don't know fully.

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As @Invocation said, the entire system was created.

Quote

Overlord Jebus [PENDING REVIEW]

Was just the continent of Roshar created by Adonalsium or was the whole system created?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Whole system was created.

source

10 gas giants. 

3 (arguably) habitable planets. 

3 moons on Roshar. 

16 celestial bodies. 

Edited by Calderis
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Any theories on what it took for Odium to shift Braize to a 9-centric?  I cant decide if that's him importing a Nine significance from somewhere else or just a manifestation of some significant "Ten minus One" event/action.

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8 minutes ago, Quantus said:

Any theories on what it took for Odium to shift Braize to a 9-centric?  I cant decide if that's him importing a Nine significance from somewhere else or just a manifestation of some significant "Ten minus One" event/action.

No idea if he had to do something specific. Ten minus One because he is the Void is what I lean towards. 

There’s a lot we don’t know, the 10 gas giants are weird. It’s like the systems magic # is 10 because of them. You would think it would be 13 or 16. 

They are also named for the 10 essences and are portrayed as having the same color as the gemstones of each radiant order. I don’t know if that’s an in world artistic flair or if the gas giants actually are those colors. 

2665E0C8-C89F-492D-BC10-12F3F69CBF2C.jpeg

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6 minutes ago, Child of Hodor said:

No idea if he had to do something specific. Ten minus One because he is the Void is what I lean towards. 

There’s a lot we don’t know, the 10 gas giants are weird. It’s like the systems magic # is 10 because of them. You would think it would be 13 or 16. 

They are also named for the 10 essences and are portrayed as having the same color as the gemstones of each radiant order. I don’t know if that’s an in world artistic flair or if the gas giants actually are those colors. 

2665E0C8-C89F-492D-BC10-12F3F69CBF2C.jpeg

That's an interesting thing actually, about the colors. 

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Rosharan gravity must be crazy, on the full scale...

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38 minutes ago, Ripheus23 said:

Rosharan gravity must be crazy, on the full scale...

In know right? That kind of thing would cause all kind of extreme tidal and Weather effects.  Whatever would the populace do? :P

 

 

It IS interesting that everything within the Inner Space of the solar system is very prominently Three's with the Ten Giants outside of them.  And also how only Roshar has any moons, when Gas Giants usually have bunches more than their solid brethren

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1 minute ago, Quantus said:

And also how only Roshar has any moons, when Gas Giants usually have bunches more than their solid brethren

I'm gonna guess/postulate that most of the matter used in the system was condensed from Investiture, rather than being already present and then rearranged via Investiture. I don't know much about planetology(?) so IDK how likely/possible it is for there to be a solar system with a star the size of Roshar's, and 10 gas giants in it, likely/possible on the assumption of a normal stellar-evolution process being the cause of the system (I know Adonalsium made the system but this could otherwise mean that It created the nova that eventually at its core became the Rosharan sun and then the debris coalesced into the planets).

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I'm curious about if the orbits of the 3 moons potentially has them on a collision course with one another or if the timing is right so that they will always miss each other.  Cause that could all go very very wrong.

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On 10-11-2018 at 7:52 PM, Ripheus23 said:

Rosharan gravity must be crazy, on the full scale...

On 10-11-2018 at 8:35 PM, Quantus said:

In know right? That kind of thing would cause all kind of extreme tidal and Weather effects.  Whatever would the populace do? :P

Nah, planetary gravity isn't strong enough for things like that. Compare our solar system: The moon's gravity is stronger than the sun's gravity. The sun is roughly 5 times (iirc) closer to us than Jupiter ever is, and has roughly 100 times Jupiter's mass, making it's gravity roughly 2500 times stronger than Jupiter's gravity if I've done my math right. Jupiter's gravity, therefore, is something less than 0.04% of the moon's gravity (I don't remember the relationship in gravity between sun and moon). And we know how much (or actually how little) the moon influences our planet; some tides and that's it.

For extreme tidal effects from gas giants you have to look at their closest moons, as that's the distance on which it's actually strong (I believe only the closest of Jupiter's major moons has significant tidal effects, for example).

As for the highstorms, they don't line up with any astronomical phenomenon that we know about. They don't line up with the rotation of the planet (a day), the place of the moons (half a day, math is explained elsewhere) or the position of other planets (a specific planetary lineup cannot occur more often than the innermost planet's time to circle their star, meaning the shortest possible lineup is something at least somewhat longer than Ashyn's rotation around the star; considering the planet is in the habitable zone and the star is like F- or A-type (it's white) Ashyn is probably about as far from the star as the Earth is, and has a similar length of a year).

The only astronomical phenomenon that I could see influencing the highstorms would be the star's rotation, but that would likely not be able to explain the variance in when highstorms occur. It would probably still require magic, as well, to carry over such strong influence.

On 10-11-2018 at 8:35 PM, Quantus said:

It IS interesting that everything within the Inner Space of the solar system is very prominently Three's with the Ten Giants outside of them.  And also how only Roshar has any moons, when Gas Giants usually have bunches more than their solid brethren

It's quite possible we're just not aware of the gas giant's moons. Astronomy doesn't seem to be very advanced on Roshar. (sadly, for us Cosmere-lovers)

On 10-11-2018 at 8:39 PM, Ripheus23 said:

I'm gonna guess/postulate that most of the matter used in the system was condensed from Investiture, rather than being already present and then rearranged via Investiture. I don't know much about planetology(?) so IDK how likely/possible it is for there to be a solar system with a star the size of Roshar's, and 10 gas giants in it, likely/possible on the assumption of a normal stellar-evolution process being the cause of the system (I know Adonalsium made the system but this could otherwise mean that It created the nova that eventually at its core became the Rosharan sun and then the debris coalesced into the planets).

There's some weird stuff in the system (the moons in particular) so it's probably a safe assumption that Adonalsium handcrafted it. He for sure handcrafted life on Roshar because a white star doesn't have a lifespan long enough for such evolution to occur (on the assumption that Earth is average); expect something from 100 million to maybe 2 billion years.

(it's astronomy btw)

23 hours ago, Zellyia said:

I'm curious about if the orbits of the 3 moons potentially has them on a collision course with one another or if the timing is right so that they will always miss each other.  Cause that could all go very very wrong.

They're likely in the same orbit. Even if they wouldn't be, however, they'd never be on a collision course because their periods are exactly the same (hence why they always appear at the same times). Still, they're close enough to Roshar and one another that their positions aren't stable on an astronomical scale. It works fine for Cosmere scale though.

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3 hours ago, Leyrann said:

There's some weird stuff in the system (the moons in particular) so it's probably a safe assumption that Adonalsium handcrafted it.

We needn't even assume such.

Quote

Overlord Jebus [PENDING REVIEW]

Was just the continent of Roshar created by Adonalsium or was the whole system created?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Whole system was created.

source

However, there are two options: either Adonalsium USED Investiture to rearrange preexistent matter and energy to form the Rosharan system, OR Adonalsium converted a blob of Investiture into matter and energy, arranging it Roshar-wise in the process. Well I guess there's a third option, too, that Adonalsium used both preexistent m/e AND converted some Investiture, here.

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Just now, Ripheus23 said:

either Adonalsium USED Investiture to rearrange preexistent matter and energy to form the Rosharan system, OR Adonalsium converted a blob of Investiture into matter and energy, arranging it Roshar-wise in the process.

Considering mass = energy = investiture I don't really see the difference. At least not from a god's point of view.

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1 minute ago, Leyrann said:

Considering mass = energy = investiture I don't really see the difference.

They might be = but they're not ≡. They can be converted into each other but not all units/quanta of one, immediately counts as a unit/quantum of the others.

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21 hours ago, Ripheus23 said:

They might be = but they're not ≡. They can be converted into each other but not all units/quanta of one, immediately counts as a unit/quantum of the others.

True but as I understand it the sum total of all three are attributed to Adonalsium, so while it's an important distinction post-shattering I think would have been more moot back then. 

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I thought the WoB about Investiture being assigned to the Shards made it sound like some of the substance of the universe was in an Investiture state specifically, before the Shattering. Actually the whole triad of matter-energy-Investiture seems to require us to imagine them as separate, otherwise there'd be no reason to speak of three, or even two, examples of the category?

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To add to what @Leyrann said about the mechanics of the system, we actually have WoP that the moons of Roshar are not in a stable arrangement. However, that's on literally astronomical timescales, not the timeframes we're dealing with in the books. Brandon has acknowledged much the same thing about Taldain and then mentioned Roshar as well. When you're Adonalsium and you're creating systems or tweaking planets for fun (or for whatever Master Plan he may have had) you can do that sort of thing.

And I'll also add that on the question of gas giant moons, the chart in AU was produced (or at least commissioned by) Khriss who does have the kind of knowledge of astronomy necessary to work out this sort of thing regardless of whether or not the locals are aware of the facts. The chart for the Selish System shows moons around an uninhabited world in the system (ie, one that nobody on Sel is going to be creating any Cogniive representation of) and the essay discusses some Physical Realm aspects of another planet. If the gas giants in the Rosharan System have moons, they should be on the chart.

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If Braize is where humanity came from AND the Tranquiline Halls, Roshar is home to the Parshendi and the transplanted humans, and the gas giants all represent the Heralds in some unknown fashion, what is Ashyn?  It seems odd that Adonalsium would craft this system and everything would have such a purpose only to put an extra planet in to make the numbers round out.

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33 minutes ago, Belcyrlis said:

If Braize is where humanity came from AND the Tranquiline Halls, Roshar is home to the Parshendi and the transplanted humans, and the gas giants all represent the Heralds in some unknown fashion, what is Ashyn?  It seems odd that Adonalsium would craft this system and everything would have such a purpose only to put an extra planet in to make the numbers round out.

Ashyn is where the humans came from and the Tranquiline Halls.  Braize is Damnation.  

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37 minutes ago, Belcyrlis said:

If Braize is where humanity came from AND the Tranquiline Halls, Roshar is home to the Parshendi and the transplanted humans, and the gas giants all represent the Heralds in some unknown fashion, what is Ashyn?  It seems odd that Adonalsium would craft this system and everything would have such a purpose only to put an extra planet in to make the numbers round out.

Ashyn is the original homeworld of the humans now living on Roshar.

Quote

tyler274

Was the planet destroyed by the surgebinders Ashyn/some other Rosharan planet?

Brandon Sanderson

It was Ashyn.

source
Quote

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

A friend of mine wanted me to ask: Was the cataclysm that rocked Ashyn and forced its inhabitants into the flying cities Investiture-based, and if it was was it Shardic in nature?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

The same cataclysm that the-- did you finish [Oathbringer]?

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

Yes.

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

The same cataclysm that they were fleeing, that they caused, is the one that forced people into the skies...

source

The 'forced people into the skies' bit references the floating cities that Khriss mentions in Arcanum Unbounded and that we've seen (or heard) described by Brandon when he read out a draft for the prologue of The Silence Divine which is set there.

In other words, Braize is the odd planet out in that it was inhospitible and not known to have any life at all until Odium showed up and made it his base of operations.

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7 minutes ago, Scion of the Mists said:

Ashyn is where the humans came from and the Tranquiline Halls.  Braize is Damnation.  

Thank you for fixing up my confusion!  

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