Gasper

Creating polestones with soulcasting

18 posts in this topic

I think that I have just figured out a way to soulcast things into pole stones, thus solving the issue with greatshell extinction. most gemstones are a base material combined with different impurities that give the material a certain color. Rubies and sapphires are an example of this. Corundum is a crystalline material that in its pure form, is colorless. Rubies are created by adding small amounts of chromium and sapphires are created by adding iron, titanium, or copper. 

First the soulcaster would need to soulcast something into pure corundum, then they would need to soulcast a certain portion of the atoms into what ever element is needed to create the color they want. Now there is a lot more both in the chemistry and the realmic theory behind this (they do create a few problems) but I think this is a viable way to address the limited amount of polestones available.

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On the Coppermind it said gemstones in general cannot be produced through shardcasting. It still needed a quotation, so it may be that you can't cast polestones, but I'm not sure either way

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Shallan says it to herself when thinking about stealing the Soulcaster in WoK.

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The bit about not being able to Soulcast polestones comes from WoK when Shallan thinks that if/when she steals Jasnah's Soulcaster she'll be able to make valuable mineral deposits but not gemstones, because that's supposed to be impossible. It doesn't actually confirm that soulcasting polestones is impossible, it's just what Shallan's been told.

Narratively speaking I have to imagine that it's at least phenominally difficult to make gems via soulcasting, if not actually impossible. Reason being, if you can easily soulcast a large rock into a gemstone, the gemhearts suddenly become a wasted effort. Brandon's said that soulcasting anything other than one of the Ten Essences is harder and really sophisticated stuff requires a Radiant who has much finer control:

Quote

Brandon Sanderson

Soulcasting anything other than the basic Essence requires some innate knowledge and practice. People could learn to soulcast better food, but it would have to be a Radiant with control over the process. The soulcaster fabrials are far more rigid in what they can create.

ebilutionist

As for soulcasting - now that is... interesting. So are Surgebinding fabrials more rigid in general? And what of an Honorblade when a non-Herald uses it?

Brandon Sanderson

A soulcaster is built to do a certain thing, and can do that certain thing well, but without as much flexibility. It is the difference between having a computer output a picture of a circle--following some inputs such as size and some changes to shape--and having an artist who can draw what you want.

source

That said, we know that synthetic gemstones should work on Roshar so... I'm really not sure.

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5 hours ago, Weltall said:

Narratively speaking I have to imagine that it's at least phenominally difficult to make gems via soulcasting, if not actually impossible. Reason being, if you can easily soulcast a large rock into a gemstone, the gemhearts suddenly become a wasted effort. Brandon's said that soulcasting anything other than one of the Ten Essences is harder and really sophisticated stuff requires a Radiant who has much finer control:

That's basically what I am saying. My method would be very difficult, and requires a level of science that has yet to be discovered anywhere but Scadrial and maybe Sel. It also would require a level of control down to the atomic level. But, I thought it was an interesting thought exercise. At the very least, a person could make the base materials for synthetic gems.

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I have zero support for this, but I could see a Watsonian explanation that the nature of the Stormlight cycle and ecosystem on Roshar, gems cannot be soulcast from one to the other because they gain just enough extra Investiture to resist it.  At least on Roshar that is, not sure if it would work offworld, but then Im not sure if Metals would still glow in the CR for a Scadrian offworld.  But from the Doyistic stance that is enough to protect Rosahr's gem-based economy and the narrative control that the individual essences impose on Soulcasting. 

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If Soulcasting follows the basic laws of physics, and you were to alter the molecular and atomic structure of something, you should be able to make gemstones. There is no reason why you shouldn't be able to, and it isn't like your soulcasting storm light, which I'm not even sure if that is impossible. I mean, you would probably lose more than you would get, but your just asking a soul to give up it's physical body and become pure investiture.  

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44 minutes ago, Darth Woodrack said:

If Soulcasting follows the basic laws of physics, and you were to alter the molecular and atomic structure of something, you should be able to make gemstones. There is no reason why you shouldn't be able to, and it isn't like your soulcasting storm light, which I'm not even sure if that is impossible. I mean, you would probably lose more than you would get, but your just asking a soul to give up it's physical body and become pure investiture.  

.......... I like the way you think:D

I really don't see why not. Sure it would be REALLY hard..... But so is making unkeyed medallions. Hard but not impossible.

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8 hours ago, Quantus said:

But from the Doyistic stance that is enough to protect Rosahr's gem-based economy and the narrative control that the individual essences impose on Soulcasting. 

The essences are a little bit of a problem, but I have a feeling that they are tied to how the Rosharians view the gems, matter, physical laws of the cognitive and physical realms interacting. 

 

On a different note, ever notice how heliodore and emerald are of similar compositions and both soulcast solid biological matter? I think that the mechanics behind polestones, their colors, and their chemical composition might be a little bit deeper than Brandon is letting on.

Edited by Gasper
spelling error
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Other related question: Are radiants limited to the essences?

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14 hours ago, Darth Woodrack said:

Other related question: Are radiants limited to the essences?

I believe so, based on how Jasnah spoke of it.  They have far more versatility per WOB and they dont have the same gem requirements.  But It is apparently a lot harder to soulcast something within an essence versus a new one.  Granted that might be more of a psychological limitation since she learned the Fabiral use first.  

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14 hours ago, Darth Woodrack said:

Other related question: Are radiants limited to the essences?

No. It's just more difficult to create/transform into a substance that isn't a pure Essence. Like jam.

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22 hours ago, Steel Inqusitive said:

I really don't see why not. Sure it would be REALLY hard..... But so is making unkeyed medallions. Hard but not impossible.

The problem with that, comes with where the line is drawn. 

I don't think this is going to be as difficult as messing with aluminum... But this WoB kind of gets the point across. 

Quote

ChickenBites [PENDING REVIEW]

Can you soulcast aluminum into other materials?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Aluminum would strongly resist any sort of soulcasting.

Billy Todd [PENDING REVIEW]

Would that resistance be overcome? Could be overcome?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

This is the question. Everything can be, right? Aluminum, in the cosmere, was created. And can be created. So, people ask me this, "Can? Cannot?" Like, with a powerful enough magnet in our world, what can you do? Like, is water magnetic? *stammers* But, could you make water respond to a magnet? Yes! You can make anything if you really try hard enough. It's, like, this idea, that when people are like, "Can you, yes or no?" Well... yes! Would it take the power of six Shards of Adonalsium working together? Maybe! Can you? Yes, you probably can. Like, we're talking about a fantasy universe where almost anything is possible, and the impossibilities are contradictions, it's "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin" sort of questions when you get into "can you?"

Now, could you soulcast aluminum using a reasonable amount of energy that an individual could conceivably have in a normal setting and situation? No. If that's what you're looking for.

source

So while I don't think it's that hard, I do think Brandon has made it intentionally prohibitive. For purely story reasons. 

Gems are the limitation on all the magic. Readily producing more of them removes that limitation. 

Brandon's not going to do that without creating another limitation. Jut look at Lift. She doesn't need gems... But she can no longer use them either. 

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Exactly! HARD. But not impossible. I think they will explore this area of soulcasting, but don't think they will ever be mass producing gems.... Even if it doesn't require massive amounts of stormlight. I think even if they do figure it out they'll farm chasmfiends instead as it would probably be easier. (Tho not cheaper!)

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1 hour ago, Steel Inqusitive said:

Exactly! HARD. But not impossible. I think they will explore this area of soulcasting, but don't think they will ever be mass producing gems.... Even if it doesn't require massive amounts of stormlight. I think even if they do figure it out they'll farm chasmfiends instead as it would probably be easier. (Tho not cheaper!)

I think mass producing gems would be like trying to mass produce artistic masterpieces. Yeah, you can maybe have a few people in a generation that are talented enough to produce masterpieces, but even assuming an abundance of Radiants, you'd still be hard pressed to find enough who are capable of doing it to industrialize it. 

Ultimately, finding ways to farm gemhearts would probably be more profitable in the long run than constantly trying to find and train new people talented enough to soulcast gems.

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Exactly! Again! (When I see I've been quoted I usually assume someone is disagreeing with me... So kind of refreshing to have two people agree with me in a row:D),

I think we are all in agreement.... Hard. Not impossible (probably). More effective to farm greatshells (except with talented radiants, and assuming doesn't require too much stormlight). 

Anything I missed?

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Other than the fact that I'm saying that I think the difficulty is prohibitive, no. 

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