Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Spacerunner

Ironside's internal monologue

9 posts in this topic

Why does Ironsides refer to Chaser and Spensa as cowards in her internal monologue, when they are clearly not cowards.  Potential traitors susceptible to Krell taking advantage of their defect, sure, but not cowards

4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That is a good point. I quickly skimmed the Interludes again, and I don't see a time where she refers to Chaser as a coward (she does in the first interlude, but it's out loud. I can chalk that up to keeping appearances, even when she's talking to Cobb). But she definitely refers to Spensa as a coward in her thoughts. Until the third interlude. Then she refers to her as a defect.

I'm not sure there is a good answer here. I assume it's to not reveal too much too soon, but I think that defect could have worked in place of coward in the parts of the story that are Ironsides' thoughts.

Sounds like a good question to ask Brandon if you get the chance, although if it's in an open forum you may want to try phrasing it to avoid spoilers.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the phrasing may have more to do with the "defect". Ironsides is a continuation of the leadership on the original craft that wanted to fight instead of surrender. The engineers and scientists favored fleeing to safety. From her perspective the "defect" lead to the cowardice of escaping instead of fighting.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If one repeats a lie often enough it becomes ingrained in their own mind. She has likely been living the lie for so long it has become the truth in her unconscious thoughts, leading to bridging between the idea of 'defect' and 'cowardice.'

8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ironsides was a very confused (and I'm guessing very internally conflicted) woman.  Almost none of her actions with regard to Spensa actually advanced any of her supposed goals.  She discriminated against Spensa only just enough to inconvenience her into trying harder and generate sympathy from the other students.  She claimed to be ultimately worried about the danger of the defect yet sent Spensa armed into multiple livefire fights?  I get the feeling she was mostly just lying to herself about what her goals and motives were.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think I might be one of the only people who felt a little bad for Ironsides. Her friend and fellow pilot seemingly betrayed them all, or at the least, he caused major damage to her psyche. She gave him permission to put himself at risk. And then he, moments later, murdered half her fleet. Now she’s in charge of a losing battle for the fate of the species. She’s embroiled in human politics which commandeer her best resource: pilots. Does she treat Spensa unfairly? Yes. Very! But I’m sure her resentment toward spensa’s dad is strong. And then to have to lie to manage the politics of a war that they are losing? I am not surprised at all. I’m glad she gets her comeuppance, but I don’t hate her.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/29/2018 at 1:46 PM, Bliev said:

I think I might be one of the only people who felt a little bad for Ironsides. Her friend and fellow pilot seemingly betrayed them all, or at the least, he caused major damage to her psyche. She gave him permission to put himself at risk. And then he, moments later, murdered half her fleet. Now she’s in charge of a losing battle for the fate of the species. She’s embroiled in human politics which commandeer her best resource: pilots. Does she treat Spensa unfairly? Yes. Very! But I’m sure her resentment toward spensa’s dad is strong. And then to have to lie to manage the politics of a war that they are losing? I am not surprised at all. I’m glad she gets her comeuppance, but I don’t hate her.

For sure the point of Ironside's interludes is so that we can see things from her perspective (pardon the turn of phrase). It's all about the motivations, and the probabilities. Ironside knew that Chaser had the "defect" and that he basically went crazy. She suspects that Spensa also has the "defect", and so she's trying to prevent Spensa from flying. Ironside's motivation has good intentions, and (without M-Bot's shielding) she would have been right.

I also wouldn't say that Ironside got her comeuppance. Sure Spensa proved her wrong (again, because of M-Bot's shielding), but as far as I know Ironside is still the leader of the military. She didn't lose anything except maybe some political bargaining power. My hope is that after Spensa's initial demands about Cobb and Rig (i.e. that they waited for them), she and Ironside are going to work together fairly smoothly.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

On 1/3/2019 at 9:32 AM, Govir said:

Ironside knew that Chaser had the "defect" and that he basically went crazy. She suspects that Spensa also has the "defect", and so she's trying to prevent Spensa from flying. Ironside's motivation has good intentions, and (without M-Bot's shielding) she would have been right.

... My hope is that after Spensa's initial demands about Cobb and Rig (i.e. that they waited for them), she and Ironside are going to work together fairly smoothly.

This is worth emphasizing.

In light of what we eventually learned is what Really Happened with Spensa's father at the Battle of Alta, what Ironsides did - and the DDF as a whole, really - in its aftermath is actually quite restrained and compassionate.

First, consider that the whole "Chaser, the coward of Alta" storyline, as painful and ruinous to his family as it inevitably was, was still a much better storyline than "Chaser, the traitor and murderer of Alta".

Next, consider that the whole prejudice against "the defect" in the original engineering crew has been there for generations, across most of the clans.

Imagine if, directly after the battle of Alta, it got out that Chaser, one of their most heroic pilots, openly talked about feeling compelled to act in response to "hearing the stars", which soon included turning on his own flightmates. There could well have been an enormous backlash, very likely a murderous pogrom, against not just his immediate family, but anybody known or suspected to have this "defect".

To prevent this, the DDF has worked to suppress this knowledge. Note that retrieving the holo recording with the original events and communications logs clearly isn't particularly difficult for anyone with access to the DDF archives. And Jorgen's reaction while comforting Spensa after she viewed it showed that what really happened with Chaser was not news to him, as the child of two very First Citizens. The "Coward of Alta" story is meant for the general population of Igneous: DDF leadership, and likely NAL leaders, have always known the truth.

Yet they couldn't really say that Chaser was KIA by the Krell. Too many other pilots saw what happened for that to be plausible; moreover, it would be disrespectful to the memories of the two flightmates that he killed (callsigns: Rally and Antique) to include their traitorous murderer in the same category as them, of "martyr to the cause."

So creating this story of a pilot who didn't come back because "he turned coward and had to be put down as an example" is pretty much the only other option, one that elevates killed pilots and their families without including Chaser in that number, while also not inciting unreasonable and very likely violent prejudice.

Now that they have much better insight as to what the "defect" actually is, and how Chaser had had his visual field "overwritten", things can maybe start anew... If they can now detect who has abilities like Spensa and her father and grandmother, thanks to the brainwave monitoring they'd done on her during cadet training, I'd expect that to be significant in the next few books.

By the way, I don't think the "overwriting of vision" had to do with Spensa's cytonic ability. I think it's something they would do to any human who ventured beyond the debris field.

They should probably start digging like (scud) for more craft like M-Bot hidden away on Detritus, or similar technology, especially if they can now see what the shielding consists of. That shielding is probably the most important tech the Defiants could get their hands on right now.

Consider that there is a shielding effect from the "debris" orbiting overhead, such that Spensa could only "hear the stars" well when the gap in the debris lined up all the way. Perhaps in addition to scavenging acclivity rings all this time, they could also have been scavenging the metal shields needed to break out, if only they knew how to identify it. And maybe that was the true reason the Krell were going to mega-lifebomb them this time, after the last Really Big Scavenger Prize was taken, because they knew that particular piece of debris had something even more dangerous than a large number of acclivity rings for harvesting.

Edited by robardin
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Right now, Spensa is the only Cytonic who can fly since the eccentric AI can shield her. I think Rig needs to have another look

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.