Chaos

Skyward Full Book Spoiler Thread

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It's noteworthy that in the end spensa thinks she's not a coward because she didn't eject.

Not because she was trying to ram the bomber in a suicide attack. Not even because she was lugging the bomb away at full speed, knowing that she'd not be able to escape afterwards. No. She tried twice to pull a heroic sacrifice and only collateral events prevented her from being successful, but what she still gauges boldness on the single act of ejecting.

that part must really be ingrained in ddf culture.

 

Speaking of ejection, the story makes Hurl seem stupid. She dies because she won't eject, and her last words are along the lines of "never a coward", which makes the reader think she just went down with the fighter without reason. It's only when we see the crash site and see that she almost managed to save the ship that we see she may have had a point. If her last words had been more along the line of "I think I can make a soft landing", she'd have looked much better. Not sure what was brandon's intention

Edited by king of nowhere
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On 11/7/2018 at 2:32 AM, Overlord Jebus said:

I am in favour of referring to these books as the storm-lite archive!

I will go into this in detail on next weeks Shardcast about this but I felt there were unsatisfying answers. My biggest issue was probably the explanation of Detritus. The reasoning behind the planet being how it was being "We found it that way" felt very... unSanderson. The planet basically arbitrarily existed to allow the story to happen and seemed generally unconnected to the rest of the story. It's not bad, it's just... a boring explanation. Maybe we will get more information on Detritus in the future but in Skyward, I felt the explanation was disappointing.

@Overlord Jebus and @ChaosI finished Skyward a couple days ago and while I was happy with the ending I did share some of these feelings. But then I read DE and now take all of those feelings back. There's huge backstory there and mentally filling in the gaps between DE and Skyward that would have resulting in a planet like Detrius is fascinating. At this point, I wouldn't be at all disappointed to never see that expansion/war period spelled out explicitly -- although getting those stories would be a nice bonus.

Edited by Fully_Invested
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Spoilers for Defending Elysium and Skyward

Spoiler

The main thing I want to know is what happend between the two stories. How did one of the most envied abilities(FTL) become the most suppressed?

 

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I enjoyed Skyward way more than I expected. I definitely agree that it is probably Brandon's strongest non-cosmere novel. It was a tad predictable and nothing really surprised my except the

Spoiler

realisation that Detritus is a prison planet.

But I don't think that was necessarily a bad thing as I was more invested in how Spensa was maturing as a character.

The only thing I didn't really like was some of the banter between the characters. Most of it was good, but Brandon has a certain style of banter that sometimes falls flat for me, though I can't quite articulate why just yet.

Other than that, I'm excited for the sequels.

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On 11/14/2018 at 6:22 PM, king of nowhere said:

It's noteworthy that in the end spensa thinks she's not a coward because she didn't eject.

I have to disagree. She had gained enough experience while a cadet to do what the situation called for, and those experiences allowed her to transcend what others thought of her.  It just happened to be she did not eject. But that second eject sequence could have been removed from the book, and the quoted section below would (with some minor tweaking) work just as well describing her taking on the bomber and its overwhelming number of escorts in a barely working ship without shield.

Quote

It was the peace of experience and understanding. As we rose into the air, I found a different kind of confidence rising inside me. Not born of stories I told myself, or of a forced sense of heroism.

I knew.

When I’d been shot down the first time, I’d ejected because there had been no point in dying with my ship. But when it had mattered—when it had been vital that I attempt to protect my ship with even the slightest chance of success—I’d stayed in the cockpit and tried to keep my ship in the air.

My confidence was that of a person who knew. Nobody could ever again convince me I was a coward. It didn’t matter what anyone said, anyone thought, or anyone claimed.

I knew what I was.

[Sanderson, Brandon. Skyward (p. 483). Random House Children's Books. Kindle Edition. (emphasis added)]

EDIT1:

For example, the paragraph about ejecting could be removed, 

Quote

It was the peace of experience and understanding. As we rose into the air, I found a different kind of confidence rising inside me. Not born of stories I told myself, or of a forced sense of heroism.

My confidence was that of a person who knew. Nobody could ever again convince me I was a coward. It didn’t matter what anyone said, anyone thought, or anyone claimed.

I knew what I was.

Though, as written, she does focus on ejecting, but I think that's more about what the DDF might believe and her transcending that.

I mean, are we suppose to believe that she would not have transcended that if the second eject/don't eject sequence had never occured? She got into the barely working poco Arturo almost died in that didn't have even have a shield and flew that into a swam of escorts. She was imo already there, even if she didn't realize it.

Side note, just noticed this is my 999th post!! 

EDIT2: 

On 11/14/2018 at 6:22 PM, king of nowhere said:

Speaking of ejection, the story makes Hurl seem stupid.

The whole fighter-pilot culture felt over the top, but Brandon talked to real fighter pilots, and I wouldn't be surprised if it's on point. It's more like Igneous + Alta form one giant Airforce base. 

Brandon did have to cram a lot of world building into a short number of pages, including enough character development to make us feel something when characters die. Though it does feel a bit forced at times, and I'm not sure if he completely pulled it off.

It does highlight how destructive their culture was becoming. One thing I don't get is why they didn't completely cover up what Chaser did. I guess to strongly discourage Spensa, but it amplified the unhealthy culture that formed. It's interesting how much the humans were helping the Krell out and how terrible Ironsides is at leadership (i.e. Cobb should have developed a training program that the other classes had to follow). 

Hopefully Brandon is setting things up for the younger generation to step into leadership roles (this is a Young Adult series after all). It's easier to justify Skyward members stepping when the current leadership is clearly incompetent.

Here's hoping at least -- Brandon seems a bit more hit or miss lately with endings (e.g. Calamity, the pulled epilogue from Perfect State, the inconsistencies at the end of Oathbringer). 

Edited by Argel
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12 hours ago, Argel said:

I have to disagree. She had gained enough experience while a cadet to do what the situation called for, and those experiences allowed her to transcend what others thought of her.  It just happened to be she did not eject. But that second eject sequence could have been removed from the book, and the quoted section below would (with some minor tweaking) work just as well describing her taking on the bomber and its overwhelming number of escorts in a barely working ship without shield.

EDIT1:

For example, the paragraph about ejecting could be removed, 

Quote

It was the peace of experience and understanding. As we rose into the air, I found a different kind of confidence rising inside me. Not born of stories I told myself, or of a forced sense of heroism.

My confidence was that of a person who knew. Nobody could ever again convince me I was a coward. It didn’t matter what anyone said, anyone thought, or anyone claimed.

I knew what I was.

 

Though, as written, she does focus on ejecting, but I think that's more about what the DDF might believe and her transcending that.

I mean, are we suppose to believe that she would not have transcended that if the second eject/don't eject sequence had never occured? She got into the barely working poco Arturo almost died in that didn't have even have a shield and flew that into a swam of escorts. She was imo already there, even if she didn't realize it.

 

Dunno. Without that part about ejecting, the paraagraph could refer to pretty much anything. What did she learn about herself? that she was willing to face a squadron alone in a barely working fighter because it really mattered? that she was willing to ram the bomber in a suicide attack when her gun stopped working? that she was willing to tow away the bomb when she could have escaped, leaving alta base behind?

That she sounds really dumb when she tries to make her bombastic threats?

No, what she learned about herself is that she didn't eject. At least, the emphasis she put on it make it seem the most important thing. Also consider the space it got in the narrative. Spensa didn't think twice before taking to the air. She didn't hesistate before trying ramming. No, she hesitated about ejecting.

It's clear that in her mind ejecting is by far the biggest deal.

sure, I agree with you that she would have been pretty satisfied with herself even without the ejecting part. she amply demonstrated that she's ready to give her life for the slightest chance to make her sacrifice matter. but still, in her mind ejecting is the biggest part.

Which, I agree, shows how deranged DDF culture has become.

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Just finished this.

...

I've got a real hankering for mushrooms now.

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On 11/8/2018 at 9:37 AM, Govir said:

I just can't shake the feeling that Doomslug is part of the ship

@junior - I just reread Skyward, and I think you're right. Spensa was the biological component of the Cytonic Hyperdrive at the end. I still want Doomslug to be part of the ship in someway, or at least related to it (e.g. maybe she was a stowaway or a pet of the original pilot).

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4 hours ago, Govir said:

(e.g. maybe she was a stowaway or a pet of the original pilot).

Plot twist: Doomslug IS the original pilot, who has been mutated into this beastly form by whatever is in the Nowhere

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So just finished Skyward today. Wow. I'm blown away. I loved it! It's given me such a space craving now! (Trying to download Halo MCC 73gig update)

 

Can't wait for the next one. Gonna be a great series! :D

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Oh gosh this book was so good. And the character development was soooo good! I finished like, parts 2 to the end in one day because I physically just HAD to know what happened! It was so fulfilling. Now I've just got this empty space in my time that I don't know what to do with now. Brandon did it again gosh darn it

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Yeah, I'm 99% sure that Doomslug and Mushrooms are going to be important somehow. (And wasn't Doomslug muching on mushrooms?) 

Of course, we've got three more books for that to develop. I haven't the faintest idea of what it would be. Maybe the mushrooms on Detritus somehow enhance or suppress cytonic abilities? And Doomslug teleporting when nobody's looking might mean Doomslug's got his own Cytonic FTL? 

One more thing - I realized only near the end, that the reason Spensa found M-bot could have been because of cytonic sensing. After all, she heard something calling to her... and that led her to a ship with cytonic capabilities. Not coincidence! 

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Ok, spoilers for Defending Elysium and Skyward ahead, but I really need to know why no one is addressing this:

 

Spoiler

WHERE ARE THE MINDBLADES!!!!??????

 

I know those require a lot of practice and expertise to be used, but wasn't that the case for FTL? I mean, shouldn't we have seen cyto mindblades before cyto FTL????

So, I'd asume the prision around the planet is some kind of cyto suppressor, meant not only to keep humans from looking out and unable of flying outside, but also of developing and using their cytonic abilities to an extent. As evidence to this, the only times we've seen Spensa (or her father) use their Cytonic abilities to read into the Krell orders, or to FTL, there was also a breach in the sky. Maybe implying that for cytonics to work, a part of the sky must be cleared, open to the openess of space.

 

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9 hours ago, HarmonicMonk said:

WHERE ARE THE MINDBLADES!!!!??????

 

I know those require a lot of practice and expertise to be used, but wasn't that the case for FTL? I mean, shouldn't we have seen cyto mindblades before cyto FTL????

So, I'd asume the prision around the planet is some kind of cyto suppressor, meant not only to keep humans from looking out and unable of flying outside, but also of developing and using their cytonic abilities to an extent. As evidence to this, the only times we've seen Spensa (or her father) use their Cytonic abilities to read into the Krell orders, or to FTL, there was also a breach in the sky. Maybe implying that for cytonics to work, a part of the sky must be cleared, open to the openess of space.

Well, there was also a machine assisting Spensa's FTL jump, so maybe that made it easier.  

As for seeing the sky, didn't we see Gran-Gran using her Cyto abilities underground?  

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What theories are out there on doomslugs future role? I think he/it might have to do with the cytonic hyperdrive and Spensa's special ability. Meaning the old people on the defiant had "doomslugs".

Quote

What is a 'cytonic hyperdrive... the ship fell uncharacteristically silent... "I have no records of it"

 

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I enjoyed the book more than I thought I would and I can't wait for book 2. My guess is chaser is somewhere out there since it seems obvious he was mindswapped like Denise in Defending Elysium. For now Spin is the only cytonic who can fly since my favorite character is able to block mindswap. He's a tad annoying on rare occasions but as a malfuctioning AI, I understand. I do wonder if Starsight will be one big romance novel, with Spin and Jorgen and possibly Rig and FM. I hope FM is given a role in politics but she'll need a practical person to balance her idealism. It will be interesting to see if Ironsides can go back to her pre first battle of Alta personality or if she's lived with hate for too long.

Final thought, Spensa and Vin need to meet, they'd either get on really well or be too similar and try to kill each other.

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13 hours ago, Angsos said:

I enjoyed the book more than I thought I would and I can't wait for book 2. My guess is chaser is somewhere out there since it seems obvious he was mindswapped like Denise in Defending Elysium. For now Spin is the only cytonic who can fly since my favorite character is able to block mindswap. He's a tad annoying on rare occasions but as a malfuctioning AI, I understand. I do wonder if Starsight will be one big romance novel, with Spin and Jorgen and possibly Rig and FM. I hope FM is given a role in politics but she'll need a practical person to balance her idealism. It will be interesting to see if Ironsides can go back to her pre first battle of Alta personality or if she's lived with hate for too long.

Final thought, Spensa and Vin need to meet, they'd either get on really well or be too similar and try to kill each other.

I too thought that Chaser was mindswapped, but it's pretty clear by the end that he was just being mislead by the aliens' powers.  He thought that his wingmates were aliens and that they had killed all his friends.  

 

Quote

Skyward Chapter 55

"I have a hole in my brain," I said. "It can see into the nowhere, but they can use it against me. I think...I think my father was shown some kind of mind hologram. When he flew back down to Detrius, he saw what the enemy wanted him to."

I remembered what he'd said. I will kill you. I will kill you all...He'd been so mournful, so soft. He thought the humans had lost--that his friends were already dead. What he'd seen hadn't been reality.

"When he blew up his friends," I whispered, "he thought he was shooting down the Krell."

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On 11/14/2018 at 6:22 PM, king of nowhere said:

It's noteworthy that in the end spensa thinks she's not a coward because she didn't eject.

Not because she was trying to ram the bomber in a suicide attack. Not even because she was lugging the bomb away at full speed, knowing that she'd not be able to escape afterwards. No. She tried twice to pull a heroic sacrifice and only collateral events prevented her from being successful, but what she still gauges boldness on the single act of ejecting.

that part must really be ingrained in ddf culture.

True, although it's important to note that Spensa did not just conclude that she was not a coward because she did not eject. She concluded that she was not a coward because she did not eject when it mattered. She's not going to throw her life away like Hurl, but she will risk/sacrifice it when doing so could save Alta. Part of the point of that scene is her rejecting the societal norms about what cowardice is (i.e. ejecting under any circumstance is cowardice), and realizing she can decide for herself, which for Spensa is a huge step.

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Posted (edited)

Only about a third of the way through, but I am really enjoying it! I was worried when I found out that Suzy Jackson (a unknown for me) would be chosen to narrate, but she is doing a amazing job and is reading the book like a BOSS!

There are a few silly moments, but it is a Young Adult story and it doesn't bother me. It's actually the type of story I need right now to take my mind off something in real life. My theory right now is that what happened to Spensa's father was this: the aliens used some sort of psychic powers to show him the humans were the corrupt ones in the war and that the war being waged was not justified. Perhaps this will be disproven by the end of the book or has been discussed elsewhere  (haven't read all the posts). Dont worry about Spoilers for me. I'm believer in the joy of the journey not the destination.

Just a few of my thoughts; I'm having fun with this story. I think Quirk is my second favorite character. Jerk Face reminds me a lot of Ice-Man from Top Gun to foil Spensa's Maverick. Dang I want to rewatch Top Gun now.

Edited by Ammanas
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I got Skyward from my grandma on Easter. I think that it is an amazing book. After I read it I read DE, and loved it to. I think that Doomslug is the Cytonic Hyperdrive when a person with the defect/deviation isn't available.

On 2/8/2019 at 6:04 AM, Scion of the Mists said:

As for seeing the sky, didn't we see Gran-Gran using her Cyto abilities underground?  

Where?

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10 hours ago, John Flamesinger said:

Where?

Her "seeing" Spensa.

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7 minutes ago, Invocation said:

Her "seeing" Spensa.

Does that count though? It could be that Gran - Gran is just a normal Grandma. My Grandma isn't blind, but she glare at me like that sometimes... Though now that I think of it, didn't the Main Character of DE (Can't remember his name) use his Cytonic abilities to Sense/see?

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Just now, John Flamesinger said:

Does that count though? It could be that Gran - Gran is just a normal Grandma. My Grandma isn't blind, but she glare at me like that sometimes... Though now that I think of it, didn't the Main Character of DE (Can't remember his name) use his Cytonic abilities to Sense/see?

Jason Write did indeed use his cytonics to see. "He sat with his eyes turned to the window, though the position was redundant. He had been legally blind since he’d turned sixteen. It had been years since he could even make out shadows or light. Fortunately, he had other methods of seeing."

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There's probably a better thread than this, but I don't want to make a new one so...

@Chaos when does the spoiler period for Skyward go off?

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On 8/2/2019 at 6:49 PM, RayOfSunshine said:

There's probably a better thread than this, but I don't want to make a new one so...

@Chaos when does the spoiler period for Skyward go off?

It is over but the name of the forum just hasn't been changed yet.

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