Skyward Full Book Spoiler Thread

[junior]

Some odds and ends in response to @Govir

I think Doomslug is the biological component to the Cytonic hyperdrive, and she has to be in that housing. If it were just the pilot, why would it go offline directly after being used?

 

I'm going to disagree here.

Immediately before the hyperdrive gets used, Spin makes a comment that she feels herself "becoming" M-Bots processors, and M-Bot makes an announcement that states "Biological Component Engaged".  Spin mentally merging with M-Bot appears to be what brings the hyperdrive on-line.  We still don't know exactly how it happened, though, so the next book might start out with some trial and error about this.

 

I'm surprised humans lost the war. I seem to recall in DE that the Aliens didn't have much in the way of warships. Although I suppose that could be explained away by saying they were hiding them like they were hiding their treatment of some of their own kind.

 

DE never said that humanity and the aliens would go to war immediately after the end of the short story.  It was something that was viewed as a distinct possibility.  But there was nothing within the story to indicate that war was going to break out right away.  Evidently war did break out eventually.  But it appears to have been a bit later, and initiated by the aliens themselves.  Before that happened, the aliens were presumably able to copy human technology to the point where they could design weapons that were competitive against the stuff that Earth could build.

 

 

[Subvisual Haze]

In which a Guild Navigator from Dune re-enacts the plot of Gurren Lagann?

[Govir]

9 hours ago, junior said:

I'm going to disagree here.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Immediately before the hyperdrive gets used, Spin makes a comment that she feels herself "becoming" M-Bots processors, and M-Bot makes an announcement that states "Biological Component Engaged".  Spin mentally merging with M-Bot appears to be what brings the hyperdrive on-line.  We still don't know exactly how it happened, though, so the next book might start out with some trial and error about this.

 

Fair enough. I just can't shake the feeling that Doomslug is part of the ship. We don't see any other slugs, and it seemed like neither Spensa nor Rig had seen a similar slug (although they had the word for slug, so it's possible there are slugs on the planet).

[Wyndlerunner]

I went into this expecting a fairly good novel. Boy was I wrong. It was a great novel! Also, did anyone else get a distinctly Pattern vibe from M-Bot? Or was that just me. 

[Wander89]

After finishing Oathbringer, I can't help but think of the Krell as Space-Parshendi.

[+Sorana]

Just finished on a train on my way to a concert.

M-Bot was so great with his funghi and how he talks back to her. And the cat. I loved the cat.

A definitly better read than I expected!

[Clytie]

On 11/7/2018 at 4:09 PM, Sirscott13 said:

Can we get an official confirmation of Defending Elysium and Skyward being shared universe? 

 

Was really cool when the grandma was talking about how her mother was the engine. Complete call back and I literally had to ask myself if it was in the shared universe 

https://www.tor.com/2018/11/07/a-full-spoiler-discussion-of-brandon-sandersons-skyward/?fbclid=IwAR1t1Pl-ubvKbS4QY-T90TrFClqMa5rTokmEUB4uKra4l-J56bmtHp9DbaQ

 

Confirmation from Betas

[Use the Falchion]

Not sure if I put it here or on Reddit, but I'm of the theory that Doomslug is actually a being sent by part of that alien coalition to watch and see if humanity is ready to rejoin society. Or more insidiously for more human tech, given HOW advanced humans were in D.E. and how advanced M-Bot is. 

I'm a fan of the first theory because I think it fits the pattern from some of Sanderson's previous works. For hints (and potential spoilers):

Spoiler

Mistborn Era 1's ending and the Reckoners Trilogy

 

[NightFrost]

Just got done reading it all in one sitting, someone remind me not to do that again. First thoughts I had after finishing was I really got to work on my insults and battle cries some the ones I read were just too good. Second thoughts I had was I felt that the answer to some of the questions answered were answered to close to the end of the book I understand that we are getting more books, but come on at least give us more time to take them in.  Other than that I really liked how Sanderson developed Spensa over the course of the series. Oh and there is totally something up with Doomslug I mean a slug that can move incredibly fast in an instant screams teleportation to me.

[Skullknight]

New here but I had to ask, do you all think that Spensa’s Cytonic gift is based off of Shadesmar a little bit? A dangerous place with ancient creatures that works outside of regular time?

[NightFrost]

1 hour ago, Skullknight said:

New here but I had to ask, do you all think that Spensa’s Cytonic gift is based off of Shadesmar a little bit? A dangerous place with ancient creatures that works outside of regular time?

You never know Sanderson has the habit of bringing ideas from previous works into current books all the time, but the Cytonic gift seems more unique to me than simplly based off Shadesmar especialy as skyward is essentially the squeal to Defending Elysium which was written before Stormlight

[Aerim]

Just finished a few hours ago, definitely wanted more! It’s been driving me crazy since I started reading Wednesday, but I finally figured out the voice that my brain read M-bot in... K2S0 from Rogue One. Despite the fact that he’s described to have an “old-timey accent” I couldn’t get my brain to read it that way no matter how hard I tried! Maybe I should listen to the audiobook. 

I definitely felt like it was more preictable than what I’m used to from Brandon, as someone pointed out, that might partially be because it’s YA. I did forget about the chronic hyperdrive, but it was more like an “oh ya, well, that makes sense,” and I didn’t call Spensa’s dad being a traitor. 

Oh, I guess I also didn’t know what or why the Krell, but the revelations there weren’t mind blowing. Although, finding out that the Krell were just keeping them as prisoners and more or less toying with them has got to be pretty depressing.

I was hoping to convince some of my Sanderson-resistant family members to read Skyward, but I now I’m conflicted because of the higher than I anticipated death toll.

I appreciated that Spensa couldn’t do everything on her own, like she needed Rig to help... to fix M-Bot, though then I kinda felt like Rig was a little too convenient of a best friend, nevertheless, I’m ok with it! 

Edited November 10, 2018 by Aerim
Removed a question I decided I knew the answer to.

[Aukeward]

On 11/6/2018 at 10:03 PM, Use the Falchion said:

An added thought:

This book definitely felt like Sanderson still had some "Stormlight writing" in him with the additions of the interludes and the drawings. If this is a constant thing going forward, I am ALL ABORD. The interludes aren't anything special, but they definitely helped flesh out Ironsides, and while the drawings are simple, they add so much in terms of cinematic value! 

 

Can the drawings be shared or are they posted anywhere? I got the Audible edition which was great but there’s no PDF for the drawings like there was for the Stormlight books. 

 

As for M-bot I got more of a Nightblood vive instead of Pattern. But maybe that was more his Spin death and destruction sub routine than his true personality. 

[Iarwainiel I]

About halfway through, it dawned on me that Detritus was a prison - it had to be.

I didn't get the full picture of how/why till the Sander-lanche at the end, but I was happy that for once I'd been right with a theory. :-)

[Kingsdaughter613]

Were atmospheric scoops mentioned anywhere other than HARRE? Because the way the scoops work, and the way the AI thinks and is named, all follow that novella’s conventions. This would give us a mid-point between DE and Skyward.

I just haven’t noticed anyone else bringing it up.

[Starspren]

I finished the book last night and I like it a lot! I'm especially fond of the M-Bot Spensa relationship. Generally, I liked the growth of Spensa a lot. I wasn't a big fan of her at the beginning but I have grown to lover her more and more over the book. Also I was rooting for Jorgon from the beginning and I'm happy that Spensa likes him now as well.

I didn't make the connection with DE (I completely forgot that it was connected to something) but "cytonic" was ringing a bell, I just couldn't place it.

My only complaint is the part, where the go into real ballte just at the beginning of their training. Even if you are desperate, this is a very stupid idea. So to me it felt like just a way to increase the tension.

Otherwise, the book is awesome. Give me more mushrooms and doomslug!

[Elandera]

I just finished listening to this last night (I apologize if I spell anything wrong, as I don't get to see the words through an audiobook). Skyward was fantastic! Spensa's character development felt real and plausible.

Spoiler

I loved how at the end, she even acknowledged when M-Bot was doing his battle cries which were very reminiscent of her own at the beginning of the book that it sounded ridiculous. 

I loved Doomslug, but I wish we knew a bit more about her.

Spoiler

I was also a little disappointed that she kind of disappeared as soon as M-Bot 'shut down'.

I'm hoping more to be revealed about what exactly Doomslug is in later books.

I haven't read Defending Elysium, but after seeing so many posts about the link between Skyward and DE, it's now top of my list to read.

1 hour ago, Starspren said:

My only complaint is the part, where the go into real ballte just at the beginning of their training. Even if you are desperate, this is a very stupid idea. So to me it felt like just a way to increase the tension.

I didn't seem too unusual to me. They established through the book that numbers are what mattered in defending against the Krell. The intention of getting the cadets into the air was not to get them into fighting, but to show presence, something that might chase away the Krell and avoid an extended fight. The Skyward flight was never supposed to start fighting.

There is also an element of desperation on the human's side. They're running out of pilots quickly, and without the numbers they'll be overwhelmed by Krell. Sending anyone up - even brand new cadets - was better than potentially letting a life-buster through.

Also, there's always a chance for unrealistic things in a plot, but which are necessary. In this case, I found it excusable to do something so tactically unsound because there were some reasons established why it might be plausible in the world, and because by the end it showed the real consequence of mistakes in battle. It was the first step, really, in Spensa's, Jorgen's, and the rest of the crew's character developments.

Edited November 11, 2018 by Elandera

[Bururian]

When M-Bot speaks, unless otherwise noted by inflection of voice, I imagine him talking like the ship's computer from HGttG. Very cheerful sunny disposition all the time.

[Swarlos]

Any thoughts on M-Bots obsession with mushrooms? 

Besides just being hilarious, I definitely thought that Mushrooms would play a factor in some late game reveal, and I still expect it to be important in a sequel. It just seems to me that there must be a reason that M-Bot would be programmed to collect and catalogue mushrooms.

[thorongil]

That was a great read. I definitely like Spensa as a character, but also - especially, maybe - Skyward flight. The way they start out as very one-sided characters and turn out much more nuanced is amazing, as it makes so much sense as we get to experience Spin's all-or-nothing mentality crumbling away.
Great read and it makes me very confident that Brandon can actually pull off the full sf-switch with later Cosmere stories.

 

[thorongil]

Oh, one more thing I forgot: Brandon's talent for inventing/choosing crucial terms is nothing short of outstanding. In that regard I hold 'Skyward' in such lofty esteem as 'Mistborn'. It (the former) is such an amazingly simple, yet elegant and beautiful title, which assimilates so much meaning and such a multitude of layers throughout the novel. In the end it synthesizes everything this book is about - Spensa's quest, the flight, striving for more - in one kickass-awesome word. And yet, that word - as is the case with 'Mistborn' - is not unecessarily bloated with meaning, but just seems to happen to have offered the possibility to be a vessel (only slight pun intended) for exactly those things all along. Outstanding linguistic sorcery, Grandwizard of Lingua Anglorum Brandon Sanderson.

Edited November 16, 2018 by thorongil
typo

[kaellok]

On 11/9/2018 at 6:33 PM, Use the Falchion said:

Not sure if I put it here or on Reddit, but I'm of the theory that Doomslug is actually a being sent by part of that alien coalition to watch and see if humanity is ready to rejoin society. Or more insidiously for more human tech, given HOW advanced humans were in D.E. and how advanced M-Bot is. 

I'm a fan of the first theory because I think it fits the pattern from some of Sanderson's previous works. For hints (and potential spoilers):

  Hide contents

Mistborn Era 1's ending and the Reckoners Trilogy

 

Given that at the end Spin says that for whatever reason something political has changed with the Krell or other aliens which was causing the increased aggression, it's very possible that there's at least some sort of monitor on the planet itself.

On 11/11/2018 at 7:14 AM, Elandera said:

I didn't seem too unusual to me. They established through the book that numbers are what mattered in defending against the Krell. The intention of getting the cadets into the air was not to get them into fighting, but to show presence, something that might chase away the Krell and avoid an extended fight. The Skyward flight was never supposed to start fighting.

There is also an element of desperation on the human's side. They're running out of pilots quickly, and without the numbers they'll be overwhelmed by Krell. Sending anyone up - even brand new cadets - was better than potentially letting a life-buster through.

Also, there's always a chance for unrealistic things in a plot, but which are necessary. In this case, I found it excusable to do something so tactically unsound because there were some reasons established why it might be plausible in the world, and because by the end it showed the real consequence of mistakes in battle. It was the first step, really, in Spensa's, Jorgen's, and the rest of the crew's character developments.

And yet those cadets have only a few hundred hours of training at most (4 months = 120 days, at 12 hours per day training = 1,400 hours TOPS) of flight time.  And most of that is still in the simulator.  Also assuming that their calendar is roughly equivalent to ours.  Meanwhile, Jorgen came to the flight with more than 2,000 hours before they ever started.

The most unrealistic thing is that they don't spend more time training pilots.  The second most unrealistic thing is that they spend more time training pilots how to fight than to fly.  There's some reasoning behind this (politics and socioeconomic factors, the rich interested in starting/perpetuating wars but not paying the cost for them) that gets a few sentences in the story, but never truly developed to the extent that it would make such factors actually reasonable. 

They live in a deeply flawed society that allows barely-adults to fight the enemy in vessels that are their only means of continued survival, but are utterly unwilling to give them the training required to not waste both the pilot's life, but also that of their ships.  Mockpits and fighter simulation should be a substantial portion of the schooling for literally anyone who is interested past a certain age. 

Despite my criticism, I loved the book, and was able to forgive it many of the unrealistic things while reading it, and eagerly look forward to its sequels.  (I ended up reading it in 2 sessions: the first 30 pages, then the rest of the book.)  I mostly was let-down by the mysteries that were set-up or how realistic the society is, but the reason why I loved Skyward so much was the characters and their arcs through the story.

[Green Hoodie Mistborn]

I really enjoyed this book. It helped that it is tied to what is probably my favorite of Sanderson's short fiction works in Defending Elysium. I love that story!

I was sad to note/see that this story was set so far in the future of DE, and also to see that humanity essentially lost the galactic war and had either been "passified" or unwittingly incarcerated. I'd hoped that we'd get to see more clearly the thread from DE's ending to Skyward's beginning, but maybe that is to come in the future still. 

I kind of hope that Doomslug is just a red slug herring

I can't wait to find out the more specific history of M-Bot... where he came from, who his final pilot was, why he'd basically been hidden or stashed away in the first place. Why is he obsessed with mushroom, so many QUESTIONS?!?

The eyes in the stars with hatred towards her, towards humanity are an intriguing thread. M-Bot's dropped crumbs about them, her seeing them, her father seeing them. I wonder if Gran-gran can see them... also does Gran-gran have true "sense" ala Jason Write (which I loved that easter egg of the brain part being named after him). 

 

EDIT: Now I need to go re-read HARRE as well as there do seem to be some concepts or tie-in's there that I might be missing. Interesting if he tries to tie all three stories together at some point. HARRE always seemed much more Heinlein type hard scifi than the DE world/concept to me. 

Kind of like LE Modesitt's two novels Haze and Adiamante where:

Spoiler

There is this tension between humans who have embraced the "Psi" concept, while others abandoned it in favor of the "Cyber". So you have psionics vs. cyborg/tech integration as central plot points in both those novels.

If Brandon were to bring HARRE, DE, and Skyward into the same stream/worlds/universe it would/could have similar concepts/arguments going on in it. Interested to see if that does happen or not. 

 

Edited November 13, 2018 by Green Hoodie Mistborn

[Wyndleblade]

19 hours ago, Green Hoodie Mistborn said:

I kind of hope that Doomslug is just a red slug herring

I agree but you know Sanderson: Chekhov's Gun

[Green Hoodie Mistborn]

Haha - true.

Though I dislike that kind of writing 100% of the time because it makes it sometimes too easy on the ready to foretell. You see a gun, you know a gun will be used, it's just a matter of by whom on whom.

I'd rather be told of the gun hanging on the wall next to the broadsword and a painting of battle, and then come to find out later that the someone was beaten to death in that room than shot/stabbed/hit over the head with a painting. The room evoked violence, so it still served a purpose, but it didn't present a MacGuffin or 1:1, gun = direct death. 

Sometimes a Doomslug is just a teleporting Parrot Slug of DOOM. You know?