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Jenet

Navani and the Sibling

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There is a thought that is persisting in my mind as I read the books again these days. What if Navani is reviving the sibling and becomes Bondsmith?

I wonder if there are other people who have had this idea, or if there is certain evidence that it is not possible, so I can put it out of my mind.

My arguments are:
- Adolin is obviously in the process of reviving his blade/spren, so in some way or another, that we do not know quite yet, it is now possible to revive dead spren.
- We know that the Sibling probably is the Tower of Urithiru, who was some sort of alive, and taking care of internal infrastructure, like sewage, ventilation, climate for growing food etc.
- We know that the Sibling was one of the three spren who bonded Bondsmiths.
- Dalinar says somewhere that he never knew anyone so interested in sewage as Navani Kholin. She points out bad or good infrastructure all the time. In the different war camps, and in Urithiru. 
- Navani is a renowned artifabrian. She thinks maybe the tower is a huge fabrial that needs to be restarted.
- Navani is the one that is actually holding the Kingdom together while her two husbands are incapacitated. Both when Gavilar was losing it in the period before his asssassination, and when Dalinar has trouble when remembering his past. She several times shows a very good ability to unite and make people try to work together.
- We don't know if she is broken. As Adolin or Shallan, she might just be good at hiding it. She has lost her husband in a dramatic assassination, I am sure she mourned not being able to choose Dalinar instead of Gavilar, there was something terrible that happened to her daughter when she was very young, her daughter was reportedly killed, and she belived that was true for a long time, and right after Jasnah returned, her son is killed. Quite a roller coaster of a life, I think. And I guess there is more that we don't know anything about.

I am sure I can list more arguments, but first I would like to hear if there are evidences against my theory. Anyone?

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It is thought by many of us on the site that the sibling is no longer in Urithiru, and on the bit that she might not be broken, we have a WOB somewhere that spren bonding does not require that, but does facilitate it.

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The sibling is supposed to be a contemporary of the Stormfather, who is the manifestation of a plantary-sized effect. This has had me thinking recently that maybethe Sibling is a continental-sized Cryptic, and the ridges of landmass that make up the Rosharan Continent (which we know are a giant fractal much like Crytpics and several cities) are the result of the same ripple warping we see when Pattern in moving across a surface.  That would make the entire continent one giant (if motionless) fractal cryptic with Urithiru right at it's center.  I wont derail this conversation with is too much, but it has some circumstantial support in the way the Shin dont like to carve or even walk on bare stone: for them it would be like walking across God's toe, or cutting off bits of it. 

 

As far as Navani for the Siblings Bondsmith, I could definitely get behind it since I do like her for a Bondsmith.  But I think she might do really well bonding the Nightmother instead: she's a similarly motherly figure with a scholars mind for R&D (a type of Cultivation, I would argue).  Plus there are several interesting candidates people have put forward for the Sibling's Bondsmith, and Im personally really pulling for Rlain. 

Edited by Quantus
grammar...
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The problem with Navani being a Bondsmith is that Rock and Rlain are (in my opinion) more interesting options. They are more culturally diverse, and would allow Brandon to tell a story that focus on other nations than the Alethi. 

I defenitely think Urithiru has a connection to the Sibling, but wether it is the Sibling is another question. 

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I agree the Sibling is needed to make Urithiru run properly. As for it's origin's I think it has something to do with the moon(s). 

There is a recent WoB confirming the Sibling is referred to as they because they don't see themselves as having a gender. It probably thinks this because the object the Sibling represents isn't usually thought of as being gendered by people. This would fit with a moon or a tower like Urithiru not having a gender ascribed to it. 

 
Quote

 

#360Nov. 3, 2018

UppityDarkeyes

Would you be willing to confirm that the use of 'they' pronouns for the Sibling is because the Sibling is non-binary? Since apparently some people are confused on this point.

Brandon Sanderson

The sibling did not view themselves as male or female. (And considered it odd that so many spren would adopt human genders.)

 

 

Edited by Child of Hodor
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1 hour ago, Child of Hodor said:

I agree the Sibling is needed to make Urithiru run properly. As for it's origin's I think it has something to do with the moon(s). 

There is a recent WoB confirming the Sibling is referred to as they because they don't see themselves as having a gender. It probably thinks this because the object the Sibling represents isn't usually thought of as being gendered by people. This would fit with a moon or a tower like Urithiru not having a gender ascribed to it.

Interesting!  Do the Cryptics we've met seem to identify with Genders?  Id think that Mathematics would be one such thing that the Rosharan residents would not innately consider gendered (Alethi illiteracy and gender roles notwithstanding).

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3 minutes ago, Quantus said:

Interesting!  Do the Cryptics we've met seem to identify with Genders?  Id think that Mathematics would be one such thing that the Rosharan residents would not innately consider gendered (Alethi illiteracy and gender roles notwithstanding).

Eh, yes and no. Shallan thinks of Pattern as a he, but unlike other Radiant spren we've seen the Cryptics don't have hair or facial features, or much in the way of distinguishing features on their torsos. They don't really express a gender like a human would. 

I could see a Cryptic seeing Spren gender as a "Lie" and thinking it's silly. 

Image result for Cryptic Stormlight

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20 minutes ago, Child of Hodor said:

Eh, yes and no. Shallan thinks of Pattern as a he, but unlike other Radiant spren we've seen the Cryptics don't have hair or facial features, or much in the way of distinguishing features on their torsos. They don't really express a gender like a human would. 

I could see a Cryptic seeing Spren gender as a "Lie" and thinking it's silly. 

 

That's what I was thinking.  I knew Shallan spoke of Pattern as male, but I didnt think he really bought into that definition himself, but I didnt recall if the Cryptics in shademar that had full bodies had any sort of neck-down secondary sex characteristics. 

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2 hours ago, Child of Hodor said:

There is a recent WoB confirming the Sibling is referred to as they because they don't see themselves as having a gender. It probably thinks this because the object the Sibling represents isn't usually thought of as being gendered by people. This would fit with a moon or a tower like Urithiru not having a gender ascribed to it. 

It would fit more with the tower, since the moons are, in Rosharan myth, people, complete with gender. 

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It's not mentioned one way or the other whether Cryptics have secondary sex characteristics. I definitely think they'd be more likely to be non-binary then many other types of spren.

Also, to comment on the original topic of this thread, I agree with @Toaster Retribution that it would make more sense for the Bondsmiths to be from different cultures, with different viewpoints.

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7 minutes ago, CrazyRioter said:

It's not mentioned one way or the other whether Cryptics have secondary sex characteristics. I definitely think they'd be more likely to be non-binary then many other types of spren.

Also, to comment on the original topic of this thread, I agree with @Toaster Retribution that it would make more sense for the Bondsmiths to be from different cultures, with different viewpoints.

It would make sense and it would be nice to have more non-Kholin family radiants. Especially with Bondsmiths since there can only be three. 

15 minutes ago, Invocation said:

It would fit more with the tower, since the moons are, in Rosharan myth, people, complete with gender. 

That's true, the only way around it is that some moons are male and some female. If the Sibling represents what people think about all three moons then people think of it being both and it rejects that. That's a reach on my part, but maybe. 

There's something weird going on with the Moon(s) and the Bondsmiths, but it doesn't have to be Sibling related. Like I said in the post I linked above the glyph Ishi is in the moon Mishim and Ishar, the endpages painting with Ishar and the moon.  

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6 minutes ago, Child of Hodor said:

That's true, the only way around it is that some moons are male and some female. If the Sibling represents what people think about all three moons then people think of it being both and it rejects that. That's a reach on my part, but maybe. 

That's a good point, I didn't think about it maybe being all three moons at once.

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With all of the attention that has been given specifically to various strata in rocks and entire cities, The Sibling has to be the Spren of the rocks.

I know that ‘The Neverending Story’ heavily implied that Rocks have genders... BUT....

Stone is non-specific.

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Thanks eveyone for your input. It seems there is no clear evidence that Navani is NOT able to revive the Sibling, and that is nice, then I can freely speculate in that direction. As well as ponder on the alternatives you all mention, which are also very interesting, like Rock or Rlain. 

I also believe that Sanderson might come up with something entirely different altogether, as is his habit. :) 

Another question though: All the strata in the tower of Urithiru, has someone somewhere given theories as to what they are or represent? To me is seems like they are like blood vessels, nerves and other organs of a body, and that the gems at the central column that Shallan freed of the Midnight Mother are somehow representative of a heart? It would be interesting to see a compilation of the listed properties (in the Ars Arcanum) of the materials that the strata are made of. I have tried to search to see if anyone has made such a list, perhaps you guys know if it had been made and posed somewhere?

Edit: I just found an example. In chapter 109 of OB, Navani talks to Dalinar about the different strata of Urithiru. 

Quote

Dalinar ran his fingers along a line of red crystal embedded i the stone wall. The little vein started at the ceiling and wound all the way down to the floor. It was smooth th the touch, distinct in texture from the rock around it

He rubbed his thumb across the crystal. It's like the other strata lines ripple out from this one, getting wider as they move away from it. 

"What does it mean? he asked Navani. The two of them stood in a storage room near the top of the tower.

"I don't know," Navani said, "but we're finding more and more of them. What do you know of essential theology?"
"A thing for ardents and scribes", he said.
"And soulcasters. That is a garnet."
 

Then follows a discussion between them about which gemstone is use for what kind of soulcasting. Then Navani says: Garnet makes blood.

A little later in the discussion, Navani adds: "The records below," Navani said, "speak of the tower as a living thing. With a heard of emerald and ruby, and now these veins of garnet".

All this, and the continuous mentioning of the strata that especially Shallan observes, leads me to think that the tower is some kind of dead organism, or just slumbering. Perhaps a fabrial, perhaps the remnants of a spren, perhaps something in between.

 

Edited by Jenet
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