"Real Life" Allomancy or How the second Trilogy might work

[Wit]

A darker aspect of real life allomancy might be the existence of a black market for hemalurgic spikes. You want allomantic or feruchemical abilities, have enough money, well then we can arrange it for you. There could be a number of ways these spikes would be arranged.

 

A misting or ferring is about to die, this organisation steps in, offers the family loads of cash and kills said metalborn and creates a spike. There might even be something akin to organ donation, you sign up to allow spikes to be created from you on your death bed. Doubt this would be legal though as you are actually killing someone and not harvesting the organs after death  So most probably someone might offer money to metalborns in return for being allowed to create spikes when they are about to die. Or organisations could simply go around kidnapping and killing metalborns to create spikes. 

[Moogle]

A misting or ferring is about to die, this organisation steps in, offers the family loads of cash and kills said metalborn and creates a spike. There might even be something akin to organ donation, you sign up to allow spikes to be created from you on your death bed. Doubt this would be legal though

 

This is actually a very interesting question: would it be illegal on Scadrial? Because of how useful it is, I could imagine people on Scadrial would be able to rationalize many many reasons for why Hemalurgy should be legal.

 

Certainly one can argue that a Coinshot with two young children who lives in poverty should have the right to give his children a better life via boatloads of cash, and society has a vested interest in making sure as many Gold Mistings give up their powers as possible for hospitals.

 

And it's not really like you can stop it from happening if someone really wants it. I see a ton of parallels to suicide and organ donation. I'll be interested in seeing if it comes up in future Mistborn novels.

Edited July 20, 2014 by Moogle

[Swimmingly]

It's like organ donation, but the organ is your soul and donating it always kills you! Yeah, I'm thinking that in a society modeled after our present-day values, with a mythology filled with Hemalurgic monsters, it's going to be opposed by many people, on ethical, religious, and social grounds.

I can see it operating on the black market, though.

[Wit]

This is actually a very interesting question: would it be illegal on Scadrial? Because of how useful it is, I could imagine people on Scadrial would be able to rationalize many many reasons for why Hemalurgy should be legal.

 

Certainly one can argue that a Coinshot with two young children who lives in poverty should have the right to give his children a better life via boatloads of cash, and society has a vested interest in making sure as many Gold Mistings give up their powers as possible for hospitals.

 

And it's not really like you can stop it from happening if someone really wants it. I see a ton of parallels to suicide and organ donation. I'll be interested in seeing if it comes up in future Mistborn novels.

 

Yeah, it'll come down to practicality vs morality, and if the Scadrial population ends up being strongly dependent on metallic arts then there might be a very good chance that there might be more support for the pro spiking camp. Allomantic abilities might just be that valuable that this could be legal. They might see it as too great a resource to let such chances slip away. I can even imagine spikes being passed down as family heirlooms, and new spikes being created and passed down similarly whenever a family member was born with the ability to use the metallic arts, specially in the noble families.

[Moogle]

It's like organ donation, but the organ is your soul and donating it always kills you! Yeah, I'm thinking that in a society modeled after our present-day values, with a mythology filled with Hemalurgic monsters, it's going to be opposed by many people, on ethical, religious, and social grounds.

 

Religious grounds?

• Harmony's followers use Hemalurgy. It would be hypocritical of them to argue against its use. And followers of Harmony don't even really have much of a doctrine to follow.
• Sliverism? Marsh, one of their mythological figures, uses Hemalurgy himself. It's holy.
• Survivorism? Spook, Survivor of the Flames, used Hemalurgy to accomplish many of his feats. He also apparently wrote a book on how great it was. Not that anyone necessarily widely knows that. Kelsier himself never spoke against Hemalurgy. Survivorism might have anti-suicide tenets, though.

I'm not sure at all that religious people would have that many issues. A lot of our anti-suicide laws in the real world are rooted in religions that Scadrial doesn't have (though I may be wrong on this).

 

Social grounds? Here's a few reasons I could see being bandied about in our society:

• Being able to give up your powers on your death bed provides an additional safety net for society to help care for people in need.
• Allomantic powers are useful and help people. Soothers are used as therapists; the more Soother/Rioters there are, the better. Allomantic powers help police catch criminals. Other powers are the same.
• Allomantic gold spikes allow you to heal anyone from the brink of death. There's massive amounts of lives saved right there. Nobody has to die to cancer.
• You should have the right to do whatever you want with your own body.
• Governments have a vested interest in having many Allomancers for war purposes, so there's definitely pressure on that end. This pressure will only grow stronger when (if?) northern Scadrial fights southern Scadrial.

Ethical grounds I'll maybe give you because I can't really argue effectively for either side.

 

As to Hemalurgic monsters of old, nobody knows Hemalurgy was used in the creation of koloss to my understanding. I may be insane on this.

 

Overall, I don't think it's a very clear-cut situation. The arguments are quite strong for legalizing it. So long as it's legally enforced that someone has to sign a contract stating they are not giving their powers up under duress, I imagine quite a few people could support it. And yes, there'd definitely be a black market.

[Pathfinder]

Religious grounds?

• Harmony's followers use Hemalurgy. It would be hypocritical of them to argue against its use. And followers of Harmony don't even really have much of a doctrine to follow.
• Sliverism? Marsh, one of their mythological figures, uses Hemalurgy himself. It's holy.
• Survivorism? Spook, Survivor of the Flames, used Hemalurgy to accomplish many of his feats. He also apparently wrote a book on how great it was. Not that anyone necessarily widely knows that. Kelsier himself never spoke against Hemalurgy. Survivorism might have anti-suicide tenets, though.

I'm not sure at all that religious people would have that many issues. A lot of our anti-suicide laws in the real world are rooted in religions that Scadrial doesn't have (though I may be wrong on this).

 

Social grounds? Here's a few reasons I could see being bandied about in our society:

• Being able to give up your powers on your death bed provides an additional safety net for society to help care for people in need.
• Allomantic powers are useful and help people. Soothers are used as therapists; the more Soother/Rioters there are, the better. Allomantic powers help police catch criminals. Other powers are the same.
• Allomantic gold spikes allow you to heal anyone from the brink of death. There's massive amounts of lives saved right there. Nobody has to die to cancer.
• You should have the right to do whatever you want with your own body.
• Governments have a vested interest in having many Allomancers for war purposes, so there's definitely pressure on that end. This pressure will only grow stronger when (if?) northern Scadrial fights southern Scadrial.

Ethical grounds I'll maybe give you because I can't really argue effectively for either side.

 

As to Hemalurgic monsters of old, nobody knows Hemalurgy was used in the creation of koloss to my understanding. I may be insane on this.

 

Overall, I don't think it's a very clear-cut situation. The arguments are quite strong for legalizing it. So long as it's legally enforced that someone has to sign a contract stating they are not giving their powers up under duress, I imagine quite a few people could support it. And yes, there'd definitely be a black market.

I understand your point that the main religious figures use or had hemalurgy used on them, but that doesn't necessarily preclude its use for its followers. God created man, yet the religion of Christianity says that is only the realm of god. Man cannot make man (except through procreation). It's why there is the whole cloning debate and protests about genetic modification. I will take it further, Jesus got holes in his hands from being put up on the cross. Baring stigmata, the congregation does not do ritual disfigurement with (rather applicable), spikes just because Jesus was spiked. I am sure there are examples in other religions as well, I am just siting Christianity because I was raised one though I do not identify as one. 

 

As to socially, it could be a rather big problem if it is not strictly regulated. Take muggings for money or identification for example. Now add in the fact that if you knock the person out, and spike them, not only do you get money, but you also get POWER. If not regulated, you could in an extreme situation get the same scene as was with the shardblades when the knights radiant gave them up en mass. Last person standing wins and has all the power.

 

Ethically I think it comes down to the person, or the ethnical structure that the society perscribes to. If for instance this occurred today in real life and I had no prove you were ripping out my "soul", then I would view it as organ donation and euthanasia. But knowing that in this book series "deities" exist, and that it would be factually ripping out my soul, I would take an ENTIRELY different stance on the matter. So I think it would be determinate on how knowledgeable the society is on the practice and what it involves. 

[Silus - Shard of Flame]

 

• Allomantic gold spikes allow you to heal anyone from the brink of death. There's massive amounts of lives saved right there. Nobody has to die to cancer.

Wait, since when is this a thing?  Is there WoB stating that Allomantic gold spikes heal people?  Cuz that's just bizarrely out of left field.

 

I would actually really like to see controversy about hemalurgy be addressed in the second series.  If our Mistborn serial killer is using it, that would be a great way to examine the issue.

[Shaggai]

Wait, since when is this a thing?  Is there WoB stating that Allomantic gold spikes heal people?  Cuz that's just bizarrely out of left field.

 

I would actually really like to see controversy about hemalurgy be addressed in the second series.  If our Mistborn serial killer is using it, that would be a great way to examine the issue.

You would need Feruchemical gold spikes as well, but it could be possible. Allomantic gold or Feruchemical gold alone wouldn't do it, but with both, nobody would have to die of things like cancer.

[Moogle]

Wait, since when is this a thing?  Is there WoB stating that Allomantic gold spikes heal people?  Cuz that's just bizarrely out of left field.

 

I would actually really like to see controversy about hemalurgy be addressed in the second series.  If our Mistborn serial killer is using it, that would be a great way to examine the issue.

 

Gold Mistings can burn goldminds that are not keyed to the Feruchemist. So basically, you get a Feruchemist to spend five seconds storing identity and health, and then give the goldmind to the person with the Allomantic gold spike. They can burn the small flake of gold and instantly Compound up enough health to heal them from almost anything. No Feruchemical gold needed, just Allomantic gold.

 

The theory even goes farther: if a Gold Twinborn can heal attributes stolen from them via Hemalurgy, they could produce an infinite amount of Allomantic gold spikes and then Feruchemists can produce healing for everyone.

[Pathfinder]

Gold Mistings can burn goldminds that are not keyed to the Feruchemist. So basically, you get a Feruchemist to spend five seconds storing identity and health, and then give the goldmind to the person with the Allomantic gold spike. They can burn the small flake of gold and instantly Compound up enough health to heal them from almost anything. No Feruchemical gold needed, just Allomantic gold.

 

The theory even goes farther: if a Gold Twinborn can heal attributes stolen from them via Hemalurgy, they could produce an infinite amount of Allomantic gold spikes and then Feruchemists can produce healing for everyone.

Why do I feel like a lot of people who came up with these theories also play Dungeons and Dragons? All the abuses in the game that requires errata are for this exact reason. "How can we take ability A, and make such and such occurrence happen, for unlimited power!". Not saying in this case it is a bad thing, but the level of ingenuity always astounds me. 

[Swimmingly]

Why do I feel like a lot of people who came up with these theories also play Dungeons and Dragons? All the abuses in the game that requires errata are for this exact reason. "How can we take ability A, and make such and such occurrence happen, for unlimited power!". Not saying in this case it is a bad thing, but the level of ingenuity always astounds me. 

Nah, that's just human nature. Give a man a fish, and he's fed for a day. Teach him to fish, come back in a couple thousand years and the oceans will be grey, overfished wastelands riddled with deep-sea oil drills and commercial shipping lanes.

[Kobold King]

Nah, that's just human nature. Give a man a fish, and he's fed for a day. Teach him to fish, come back in a couple thousand years and the oceans will be grey, overfished wastelands riddled with deep-sea oil drills and commercial shipping lanes.

 

To be fair, we fished more or less sustainably for thousands and thousands of years. It was our sudden technological revolution in the past few millennia that got us to where we are now.

 

I see your point though.

[Pathfinder]

Nah, that's just human nature. Give a man a fish, and he's fed for a day. Teach him to fish, come back in a couple thousand years and the oceans will be grey, overfished wastelands riddled with deep-sea oil drills and commercial shipping lanes.

I thought for a second your next line would have been "teach him to fish, and he will stab it with a spike ripping away its spirit web for ULTIMATE POWER!"

[Voidus]

The theory even goes farther: if a Gold Twinborn can heal attributes stolen from them via Hemalurgy, they could produce an infinite amount of Allomantic gold spikes and then Feruchemists can produce healing for everyone.

I don't think that'd work, since Feruchemical gold healing is based on your cognitive perception then at the very least they'd have to be pretty cosmere-aware, aware of the existence of the spirit web and such, but also from the groupings of metals (Even though they're artificial constructs) gold is a physical metal, so not sure it'd do anything to the spiritual.

[Moogle]

I don't think that'd work, since Feruchemical gold healing is based on your cognitive perception then at the very least they'd have to be pretty cosmere-aware, aware of the existence of the spirit web and such, but also from the groupings of metals (Even though they're artificial constructs) gold is a physical metal, so not sure it'd do anything to the spiritual.

 

Feruchemical gold can heal Shardblade wounds, which means it heals the soul. Whether or not this means it can replace things stolen by Hemalurgy is up for debate, but I do think it's possible.

 

I'm not sure how important it is that it is a Physical metal - I'm always leery of the categorizations for various systems, particularly considering Brandon made a typo then casually said "welp, looks like Feruchemy is organized into Realmatic quadrants now". It seems like the metals cover multiple realms simultaneously, though they may be more focused on one in particular.

 

Also, electrum (which stores determination) is a Physical metal, which doesn't make too much sense (particularly when you consider that storing warmth is a Cognitive metal). I believe these are the metals that were accidentally swapped. WoB:

Satsuoni

How is heat a mental attribute in Feruchemy?

Brandon Sanderson

Because I messed up. I don't know if I've mentioned this before, but that power was supposed to be swapped with another one. (You might be able to guess which one.) However, by the time I realized my mistake, it had already been canonized in print in the trilogy, so I was stuck with it. I've been tempted to go back and correct the error, but it reaches pretty far back. People drawing upon warmth is mentioned in the first book. One thing to keep in mind, however, is that in general the 'physical, mental, etc' things are applied by people--they are boxes that people investigating the magic have used to describe it.

(source)

 

The problem is that Terrismen were drawing on warmth in a time when electrum as an alloy should have been unknown. So if he corrected the mistake, he'd have to figure out a reason why the Feruchemists of old knew about electrum but newer ones had forgotten.

Edited July 30, 2014 by Moogle

[Voidus]

 

Feruchemical gold can heal Shardblade wounds, which means it heals the soul. Whether or not this means it can replace things stolen by Hemalurgy is up for debate, but I do think it's possible.

Did we get WoB that it could?

[Moogle]

Did we get WoB that it could?

 

Here you go:

Kurkistan

Does a limb that has been "severed" by a Shardblade have any Hemalurgic bindpoints? If the same limb was then cut off more conventionally, would a Bloodmaker ferring be able to grow it back?

Brandon Sanderson

A severed Shardblade limb needs repair to the soul before it would function again. A Bloodmaker would be able to heal it without needing to grow it back.

(source)

 

Sorry for not including it. I was lazy.

Edited July 30, 2014 by Moogle

[Voidus]

That's ok, well I tip my spike to you then Moogle

[Fallen Rope]

If hemalurgy was legal, renting them would have a lot of uses. A posh restaurant might give customers Allomantic tin spikes to improve the food. Or your trying to lose weight, rent a Feruchemical bendalloy spike.

[Pathfinder]

If hemalurgy was legal, renting them would have a lot of uses. A posh restaurant might give customers Allomantic tin spikes to improve the food. Or your trying to lose weight, rent a Feruchemical bendalloy spike.

And much like grocery items, there will need to be an expiration date lol since hemalurgic spikes lose a charge over time

[Voidus]

Only if they're not inside of someone, there'd definitely be some hygeine issues though :S

[Pathfinder]

Only if they're not inside of someone, there'd definitely be some hygeine issues though :S

Assuming rentals, then it would be out of the body quite a bit. Do you rent movies that are stored in dvd players? There would either have to be a system in place where people would be paid just to hold the spikes in their bodies till a renter comes in, or there would need to be expiration dates. Even then, each time the spike is given out, the charge would lessen during the transfer from body to body, so again expiration dates would be a requirement lol

[Voidus]

Assuming rentals, then it would be out of the body quite a bit. Do you rent movies that are stored in dvd players? There would either have to be a system in place where people would be paid just to hold the spikes in their bodies till a renter comes in, or there would need to be expiration dates. Even then, each time the spike is given out, the charge would lessen during the transfer from body to body, so again expiration dates would be a requirement lol

If DVD's slowly got more and more scratched the longer they're out of the player we probably would but yeah they would eventually expire but so does everything really.

[Pathfinder]

If DVD's slowly got more and more scratched the longer they're out of the player we probably would but yeah they would eventually expire but so does everything really.

Now the Futurama episode where Fry and Leela are looking at fat truckers with art painted on them comes to mind. I am picturing people standing on little pedestals full of spikes (each spike will have a label hanging from it stating the number of times it has been rented), with buyers walking around them to examine them. When a spike is selected, the person on the pedestal is guided off the pedestal to the back so the buyer may receive their spike. 

[Fallen Rope]

But a soother could take control of the fat truckers/inquisitors because of the amount of spikes they have and cause complete chaos.

And about hemalurgic decay, why didn't Vin's earring lose its charge from it not being worn for a long time. Maybe spikes keep their charge after someone has first used them.