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The Biggest RAFO


Kobold King

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So, this is from the 2014 Omaha book signing:

 

 

Q: Has Hoid ever visited the planet Braize?

 

A: (sing-song voice) RAFO. Such a big RAFO. The biggest RAFO.

 

 

From the specific wording of the answer, I have deduced that this question is somehow important in a way we don't currently understand. This is the sort of brilliant intellectual work I am capable of.

 

So what I'm wondering is, why is this question such a big RAFO? We know Hoid isn't one of the Heralds, so that answer is out. Why does it matter whether Hoid's taken a stroll down Damnation Avenue at some point?

 

Personally, I'm not good with this sort of guesswork. I've been toying with the idea of Braize being the current state of Yolen, but I have little evidence to support this.

 

So, discuss, maybe?

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I like the idea that Braze was/is Yolen. I dont think it is, but I like it. I think Hoid was part of the reason why Braze is like it is. When talking to Dalinar he said something about being willing to let Roshar burn to get his way. Or something like that. Maybe Hoid already let it burn once and that is why the Tranqualine Halls (TH is Braze maybe) was evacuated. Hoid could be the reason the people on Roshar are there and not in the TH. He needed something and didn't care how.

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We know that there are three planets in the Greater Roshar System: Ashyn, Braize and Roshar (in alphabetical order ;)). Given the information that Odium is on Braize, it was theorized that Braize = Damnation. We know little about Ashyn and nothing about Braize.*

This WoB might be interesting, too:

 

Q: So there are two other planets in the Roshar system, are they the Tranquiline Halls and Damnation that you mentioned in TWoK?

A: There has been in the past knowledge of other planets in the system and that has indeed influenced the mythology of the world.

source

Meanwhile I also saw posts with speculations those speculations that Braize is the former Yolen. I admit I have no opinion about this at the moment.

But there's a question coming up in my brain: Though we know that there were planets prior to the Shattering, do we yet have confirmation that all of the now existing planets existed prior to the Shattering? Might Yolen itself have been shattered into three planets: Braize, Ashyn and Roshar?

Any ideas about this?

I kind of had the idea that Damnation isn't on a planet, not a physical thing, but the part of the Cognitive Realm corresponding to either Braize or Ashyn (my guess is Braize).

edit:

* Somewhere in WoR Kal said "... Damnation, called Braize in the old stories ..." (heavily paraphrased, can't find the exact quote now). So I think it might be kind of sure to say: Braize = Damnation (or Braize's part of Shadesmar = Damnation, according to my above idea).

Edited by Meg
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I thought there was a WoB, theory or a mention in book that Braze/damnation was once the TH. or maybe it was assumed because Odium forced the people out of the TH and he is on Braze now.

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I thought there was a WoB, theory or a mention in book that Braze/damnation was once the TH. or maybe it was assumed because Odium forced the people out of the TH and he is on Braze now.

Pretty sure nothing officially states this. In fact, Almost everything about the TH or Damnation gets RAFO'd immediately. 

The quote could be taken any number of ways. Perhaps it is important because Hoid is collecting magical abilities from each of the planets (so far he has Yolen Lightweaving, Allomancy, Feruchemy, Awakening, and who knows what else) and revealing which planets he has been to could be giving away a lot about his abilities in upcoming books that could be decades away. It could also reveal secrets about the timeline of the Cosmere that we aren't supposed to know until a book is released. There are just so many possibilities because Hoid is all friggin over the place. I don't think we should focus so hard on the TH or Damnation, though that could be it. Still just a theory.

Edited by Bloodfalcon
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I would say that the reason Brandon has put a massive RAFO on this is because Braize is the land of Odium. Obviously if Hoid goes there something big is going to happen. We know that Hoid is not ok with Odium's doings in general. If he has been to Braize, Brandon probably doesn't want to tell us because Hoid did something big there or he even interacted with Odium. Hoid is ever-mysterious. Brandon is always very quiet with specifics about him. I find it not surprising at all that he has chosen to RAFO what could well have been one of Hoid's most significant doings, going to the land of who he believes is the greatest the threat to the cosmere.

Alternatively, he could have RAFOed the question because it will be a literal RAFO and Hoid will go to Braize at some point in the Stormlight Archive and whatever he will do there will be on the level of what I said above.

[crazy speculation]Or maybe Hoid went there a long time ago and if it was the Tranquiline Halls he was the one who expelled humanity then blamed it on Odium. The reason Hoid hates Odium so much is that he doesn't want him to tell anyone that he framed him. The reason Odium is going on a Shard killing spree is that he wants to get enough power to get back at Hoid. Unfortunately, Hoid needs help but he can't tell anyone the truth. That's why his dragon-pal won't help him.[/crazy speculation]

And just to say, I really don't think there is any way that Roshar/Ashyn/Braize was ever Yolen because I'm pretty sure we know Yolen still exists now. Isn't that where the dragon is?

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Hoid and Odium were actually lovers. They went to Braize to get married but Honor and Cultivation saw how happy they were and resented them. This caused a huge war between the shards eventually forcing Honor/Cultivation to flee. Odium was mortally wounded at the time which is why Hoid travels around the cosmere, trying to find the one magic that can save his love.

 

Guess i"ll spoiler that before being shouted at again.

 

Hoid specifically says if Odium found him he would be shattered which suggests that he has to be very careful about where he goes. If Odium is centered on Braize I'd imagine it would be impossible for Hoid to slip into the planet without being detected. This I think suggests he visited braize pre-escape. Maybe what Hoid did was impersonate one of the Shards to trick Odium into focusing in the wrong area so humanity could escape to Roshar through who knows what. Definitely fits Hoids sneaky persona and why Odium would want to kill him so badly.

Edited by Numb
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You know, it's a good thing that there wasn't a period when Odium couldn't have been on Braize, a period where Hoid could have sauntered in and taken a look around... good thing Odium didn't go to some planet and visit some old friends, maybe wreck the place a little, he's such a party god...

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My guess is it has to do with the appearance of Taln or as some theorize - fake taln. Hoid either has something to do with the release of the real taln or the creation of he who thinks he is taln.

Edited by zandi
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Now that I think on it, this sounds like it would be a potential Mistborn Trilogy 3 sort of deal. Hoid hates Odium, Braize is Odium's home, Mistborn 3 is future space travel with Hoid as a main character..... Whabam. Hoid on Braize in one of the biggest Cosmere-relevant moments ever. The biggest RAFO.

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I love what you've done with this place, Devi and Devo! That Elantris there sure is pretty! AwesWHOOOPS! Sorry, guys, I think I splintered something...tell you what, I'll pay for it. Guys? Guys?....Devi? Devo? Hello?

 

My brother and I have often discussed what we call "The Ati and Leras Show", a sitcom about Ruin and Preservation living together on Scadrial. It features comedic hijinx and joyous exchanges like the one below (when they accidentally create Feruchemy):

 

"You got your Ruin on my Preservation!"

 

"You got your Preservation on my Ruin!"

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I like this theory, as I too have been toying with the idea of Braize being the remains of Yolen.  My issue is the following: the Second Letter is mostly amicable in nature, even if the dragon is somewhat displeased with Hoid.  This dragon would have started on Yolen, and I feel that he would be far more upset if "destruction of his home world" was on his list of griefs about Hoid.

 

However, there is (I believe) a somewhat simpler solution - Braize was the original home of humanity in the Greater Roshar system.  If Hoid's quest against Rayse starts immediately following the shattering of Adonalsium, then I think it would be reasonable that he would find his way onto Braize before Odium forces humanity off.  Perhaps he was even around for the exodus.

 

So, the "biggest RAFO" refers to the fact that Hoid having traveled to Braize somehow reveals information about this situation.  Since this is likely key to the central conflict on Roshar, it deserves the name.

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I like this theory, as I too have been toying with the idea of Braize being the remains of Yolen.  My issue is the following: the Second Letter is mostly amicable in nature, even if the dragon is somewhat displeased with Hoid.  This dragon would have started on Yolen, and I feel that he would be far more upset if "destruction of his home world" was on his list of griefs about Hoid.

 

However, there is (I believe) a somewhat simpler solution - Braize was the original home of humanity in the Greater Roshar system.  If Hoid's quest against Rayse starts immediately following the shattering of Adonalsium, then I think it would be reasonable that he would find his way onto Braize before Odium forces humanity off.  Perhaps he was even around for the exodus.

 

So, the "biggest RAFO" refers to the fact that Hoid having traveled to Braize somehow reveals information about this situation.  Since this is likely key to the central conflict on Roshar, it deserves the name.

 

You won't find any information on those books being key to the central conflict of any other books. They are written as separate series that don't rely on the others. There may be some cool Rosharan myth that you can notice matches up well, but it won't be as significant as you think. At least according to Brandon. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

You won't find any information on those books being key to the central conflict of any other books. They are written as separate series that don't rely on the others. There may be some cool Rosharan myth that you can notice matches up well, but it won't be as significant as you think. At least according to Brandon. 

 

This is not necessarily true for later books.  Brandon has stated that there will be more crossover later, and the 3rd Mistborn Trilogy does involve travel between worlds, so it may apply then, but not be significant to the Stormlight Archive.

 

My guess is it has to do with the appearance of Taln or as some theorize - fake taln. Hoid either has something to do with the release of the real taln or the creation of he who thinks he is taln.

 

I like this theory... I'm kind of thinking that Hoid may have somehow swapped or more likely, orchestrated someone else into swapping a fake Taln for the real one, perhaps causing Odium to void the Oathpact by not returning the real Taln.  So Odium puts all of the Final Desolation steps into motion, but in fact, he's causing himself to forfeit by breaking the rules of the Oathpact (that the Heralds must be returned to Roshar to have a Desolation occur), and perhaps the real Taln is still hiding out in a false identity on Braize somewhere.

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I'm not entirely unsure that the situation on Roshar isn't Hoid's fault. If Hoid has been to Braize before, and if the idea that Desolations on Roshar are caused or influenced by events on Braize is correct (seems likely), then I wouldn't be shocked if he had directly brought about this new Desolation. He's there to get something, and if he could have gotten what he wanted without a Desolation going on, he had a whole hell of a long time to do it in. He's collecting/building power of different kinds, for what is obviously an important purpose (to him at any rate), and he's definitively willing to let Roshar be destroyed to get what he needs. Depending on how specifically Mr. Sanderson is choosing to answer that question (Hoid on Braize in the specifically past tense), I can't think of a much larger RAFO than Hoid deliberately unlocking the back door for Odium to start going bananas on Roshar again, in order to prompt the appearance of a force of Honor or Cultivation that he needs for his own purposes. If Roshar gets saved in the end, that's swell and dandy. If it gets flash-fried in Hatefire, then it will have been worth it.

 

That seems extreme to me (Cultivation's life would be part of Hoid's ante, for one), but Hoid's bouts of solemnity are very stark and bleak, and he may be driven to do some dark things. Also I may just be completely crazy, that's not off the table.

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This is not necessarily true for later books.  Brandon has stated that there will be more crossover later, and the 3rd Mistborn Trilogy does involve travel between worlds, so it may apply then, but not be significant to the Stormlight Archive.

No, it is necessarily true. The third Mistborn trilogy is going to have crossover characters, space travel, all that, and it still shouldn't be something that you need to read other series to understand. Outside of Mistborn, that is. Brandon even said that the "Wrapping up all the Cosmere stuff at the end" book might not even get published unless he thought for there was enough interest in it that it would sell as well as other books. Several times he's said that the Cosmere is supposed to be bonus material that isn't required, but can add a lot for those interested enough to follow.

TL;DR: There can be lots of crossover without it being necessary to have read the other books. There is right now in Words of Radiance, for instance.

Edited by Bloodfalcon
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My guess is it has to do with the appearance of Taln or as some theorize - fake taln. Hoid either has something to do with the release of the real taln or the creation of he who thinks he is taln.

Hmmm the wording of your post made me think. What if when Hoid was talking to Dalinar about taking someone apart and putting them back together again he wasn't talking about himself, or a shard holder (I'd assumed it was one or the other he was meaning) but Taln. Maybe he's patched him up, or created a new version, with fragments of souls or something? Ok, probably not, but it would be interesting if it were Taln he was talking about in some way.

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No, it is necessarily true. The third Mistborn trilogy is going to have crossover characters, space travel, all that, and it still shouldn't be something that you need to read other series to understand. Outside of Mistborn, that is. Brandon even said that the "Wrapping up all the Cosmere stuff at the end" book might not even get published unless he thought for there was enough interest in it that it would sell as well as other books. Several times he's said that the Cosmere is supposed to be bonus material that isn't required, but can add a lot for those interested enough to follow.

TL;DR: There can be lots of crossover without it being necessary to have read the other books. There is right now in Words of Radiance, for instance.

 

That's exactly what I'm saying.... there can be lots of crossover without it being necessary to have read the other books.  Hoid being on Braize could be a big RAFO for the third Mistborn trilogy, without it requiring you to read the Stormlight Archive at all.  So you might miss out on the cool Braize Stormlight Archive references if you don't, but it won't affect your ability to understand the main plotline, which might not even mention Roshar.  Brandon said it was a big RAFO, but didn't say for which series it is a big RAFO.  Maybe it's such a big RAFO precisely because it is a RAFO for a much later series (one which is supposed to involve Hoid as a main character).

Edited by thek9
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It seems that we have all taken the RAFO as'yes he has been there but it is to spoilery for me to tell you why or how", when it could very well have meant "no he hasn't been there but it is to spoilery for me to tell you why not". In the end this being a big RAFO just makes it a big Rafo, it means about as much as a normal Rafo.

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That's exactly what I'm saying.... there can be lots of crossover without it being necessary to have read the other books.  Hoid being on Braize could be a big RAFO for the third Mistborn trilogy, without it requiring you to read the Stormlight Archive at all.  So you might miss out on the cool Braize Stormlight Archive references if you don't, but it won't affect your ability to understand the main plotline, which might not even mention Roshar.  Brandon said it was a big RAFO, but didn't say for which series it is a big RAFO.  Maybe it's such a big RAFO precisely because it is a RAFO for a much later series (one which is supposed to involve Hoid as a main character).

Forgive me for misunderstanding then. Yeah, Hoid is going to be the main character of Dragonsteel, and one of the main characters of Mistborn arc 3. I would guess that his role in Stormlight Archive will only grow more and more important, but maybe not to the main character level. He could end up on Braize in Stormlight Archive, even. Roshar has pretty good connection to the planet, and Odium obviously has a connection to both as well. It'll be exciting in whatever series, I think we can all agree.

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The answer to 75% of all RAFOs is yes. Not saying it's proven that he went to Braize, but it's more likely that he did.

Go to Theoryland and search for RAFO. The majority of results are WoT based, but the majority turn out to be wrong, hahaha. RAFO is basically him saying "that is a topic I'm not revealing details on." So when you have a thousand people guessing things, nearly zero of them accurately predict the way the books are going to turn out. 75% sounds 70% too high for me. 

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