Vin(Diesel)

Theory: Trell's shardic intent is modesty/anti-ostentatiousness

20 posts in this topic

In the old, pre-Lord Ruler religion centered on him he was supposed to be the god of night, right? And his showy brother was god of the day. But his followers loved his humble ways more than those of his brash brother.

Trell works quitely. Whereas Ruin and Preservation had a full-blown war in full view of everyone, Trell moves quietly in the background. His (ostensible) followers in The Set do too.

It may be that in Warbreaker the god Austre is actually Trell. Austre seems to have very little connection to Endowment, and Austre teaches his followers to share Trell's quiet, self-effacing ways.

So Trell is the shard Modesty (that is, opposite of ostentatiousness). 

Do you agree?

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No. Trell is a shard we have seen before.

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4 minutes ago, Vin(Diesel) said:

John203, Has Brandon said so? If not, why do you say so?

He had. 

Quote

Chaos

I'm sorry Brandon, you might RAFO me.

*written* For the metal in Bleeder, is it from a Shard we know?

Brandon Sanderson

Oh no… You drove all this way, that's what makes me. Eric comes and he's like--

Chaos

You RAFO'd me at Words of Radiance--

Brandon Sanderson

I know.

Chaos

--I asked you a question that was too much.

Brandon Sanderson

…you push, yeah… There you are you got your answer. You got me.

*writes* Yes.

Footnote: at that time we knew 9 Shards: Devotion, Dominion, Preservation, Ruin, Odium, Honor, Cultivation, Endowment and Autonomy
source
Quote

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

Is the metal that Bleeder was associated with and had, is the Shard associated with that metal the same entity that's calling itself Trell?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Yes.

source

Put together, the metal is from a Shard we know, and that metal is from the same entity calling itself Trell. 

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Dammit Calderis I was about half a second away from posting that.

:ph34r:

Ninja'd

Also, as to what Austre is, we don't really know. Brandon has RAFO'd most questions, so this is the best I could find.

Quote

Blaze1616

Austre: Is also also- is that Endowment? You referenced him as male, but Endowment's female. So I'm dying to know.

Brandon Sanderson

No, Austre is not. So who do you think Austre is?

Blaze1616

Since it's not Endowment I personally think it's a Returned from long ago.

Brandon Sanderson

That's a very good conclusion.

source

 

Edited by Slimy_Slider
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Calderis, that's a strong argument, but one could also argue that we knew the shard from Bleeder's metal, namely, the shard Trell aka Modesty, which is known to us because Sazed talked about it, etc.

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I mean, Brandon's a troll, but that seems a little too ridiculous. If he was going to be that obscure, he probably would have just RAFO'd. Saying that "we know the shard" but only meaning the god-metal kind of makes the entire answer pointless, which I don't think he would have done. Not that Brandon is unwilling to give non-answers, but this doesn't seem like his style.

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Slimy Slider, I don't mean that Brandon meant the god-metal, I mean that he meant Trell from Trelagism (and from White Sands, come to think of it). 

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Also, I doubt Trell is any shard who's vessel we know the name of, because if Trell isn't the name of a new shard it's probably the name of the vessel, given that the metal is called trellium (wait, is it?) and Atium is named after Ati while Harmonium is named after Harmony. 

That rules out Odium.

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5 minutes ago, Vin(Diesel) said:

Also, I doubt Trell is any shard who's vessel we know the name of, because if Trell isn't the name of a new shard it's probably the name of the vessel, given that the metal is called trellium (wait, is it?) and Atium is named after Ati while Harmonium is named after Harmony. 

That rules out Odium.

Trellium is a fan created placeholder name that Brandon has said it's fine to use for now. 

Quote

Questioner

Is there a name we can use for Paalm's metal, or should we just go with trellium?

Brandon Sanderson

Trellium will do. Yeah. Go ahead and call it trellium.

source

It's not its actual name. 

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Can't be Odium (SA is written as self-contained that can be connected in the greater cosmere) so Odium will be dealt at that series and same case with Cultivation hands full with Odium(no she can't multitask .. she's facing the literal most dangerous shard alone). Can't be endowment(she's into none-intervention if the letters are any indication). Obviously it cannot be Ruin or Preservation.

It just doesn't make sense for any other shard than Autonomy(either their hands are full or that it is narratively bad)

55 minutes ago, Vin(Diesel) said:

Calderis, that's a strong argument, but one could also argue that we knew the shard from Bleeder's metal, namely, the shard Trell aka Modesty, which is known to us because Sazed talked about it, etc.

Even if Modesty is actually a shard. Obliterating Scadrial doesn't sound like something a shard named Modesty would do. Hell even the part where they abduct noblewomen and use them as breeding tools doesn't sound like something modesty would approve at all.

That takes alot of mental gymnastics(which can be done btw just unlikely).

Unless i'm missing a joke here 

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goody153

Is Trell trying to obliterate Scadrial? Not just to control it? 

And I am having trouble communicating about modesty because modesty is typically used to mean wearing non-sexualizing clothes, but modesty means, well, the opposite of ostentatious, basically. But I can't just say I don't mean dressing non-sexually, because shocking and arousing people by wearing sexualizing clothes is a form of ostentation, in a way. In any case, I'm not referring to chastity. I'm thinking of a shard who, if he were a mere human, would be a very good practitioner of Austrism. 

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Listen to Miles Hundredlives internal monologues and rants. Think back to each instance of "someone moves us lawman". Reread to Paalm's final moments.

Knowing we have WOB confirmation that:

1.Trell is a shard we know

2. Autonomy often imitates other gods, and we should not get hung up on gender or appearance.

3. Oathbringer Epigraph Spoiler

Spoiler

What we learned about Patji / Obradai from the letters in Oathbringer. Autonomy has avatars with distinct autonomous personalities on many different planets. 

 

We also know Khriss finds Bavadin's interference with other worlds hypocritical. 

 

As for the other contending shards:

Devotion: Splintered / Dor

Dominion: Splintered / Dor

Preservation: Harmony

Ruin: Harmony

Odium: Whatever Trell is doing he is not behaving like Rayse at all. He is making people scream about freedom from harmony's manipulations, and not offering to take anyone's pain. 

Honor: Splintered 

Cultivation: Totally pro-manipulating things. 

Endowment:

Spoiler

Follows the vessel's pact to not interfere and abstain from shardic interactions. Threatens to deal with Odium and Hoid if either becomes necessary, blames Shards who cluster together for their own death. Also wouldn't blame Harmony for direct involvement or overgiving. Elendel Basin seems more like the fertile area around T'Telir than anywhere else in the cosmere.

It is admittedly all circumstantial. But if you quickly take in all the source material I reference, it becomes pretty compelling that it would be Autonomy. If not, the rantings of Bloody Tan, Paalm, and Miles are almost problematic in how thematically consistent they are driving home this same argument. HARMONY INTERFERES TOO MUCH AND STOLE FREE WILL. 

And last:

Motive: Harmony is robbing scadriand of autonomy.

Means: Autonomy is known to create autonomous invested "avatars" and coopt existing theology.

Opportunity: Autonomy is mobile, active in the cosmere, known to us, and not splintered at the time of Mistborn Era 2, unlike most others.

Case closed.

- Bavadinium 

 

 

 

Edited by Trellium
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1 hour ago, Vin(Diesel) said:

Is Trell trying to obliterate Scadrial? Not just to control it? 

Per the words of the Set's Immortal, yes. 

Quote

“What is that?” Suit asked, growing nervous.
“Our accelerated pace will no longer require the Set to have its full hierarchy.”
“But you need us!” Suit said. “To rule, to manage civilization on—”
“No longer. Recent advances have made civilization here too dangerous. Allowing it to continue risks further advances we cannot control, and so we have decided to remove life on this sphere instead. Thank you for your service; it has been accepted. You will be allowed to serve in another Realm.”
“But—”
The creature engaged the explosive device, blowing itself—and Suit—to oblivion.

 

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1 hour ago, Vin(Diesel) said:

goody153

Is Trell trying to obliterate Scadrial? Not just to control it? 

Yep pretty much what Calderis posted 

Btw you can use "@" to tag people. Makes it easier to get their attention

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14 hours ago, Calderis said:

and so we have decided to remove life on this sphere instead

Any vague chance that "remove" means "evacuate" instead of "destroy"?

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16 minutes ago, Ripheus23 said:

Any vague chance that "remove" means "evacuate" instead of "destroy"?

I suppose, but I find it exceptionally unlikely from a feasibility standpoint. 

Plus, it immediately happens to blow up the person it's speaking to. 

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On 2018-10-30 at 7:25 PM, Vin(Diesel) said:

It may be that in Warbreaker the god Austre is actually Trell. Austre seems to have very little connection to Endowment, and Austre teaches his followers to share Trell's quiet, self-effacing ways.

‘Very little connection to Endowment’? I am utterly baffled at how you came to this conclusion. Because I had literally the opposite conclusion. The way he/she/it were described in Warbreaker, Austre is to Endowment what Domi and Jaddeth are to Devotion and Dominion and the ‘Almighty’ is to Honor. I’m really curious how you missed the connection, because it seemed blatantly overt to me...

 

Edited by Fanghur Rahl
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11 hours ago, Fanghur Rahl said:

‘Very little connection to Endowment’? I am utterly baffled at how you came to this conclusion. Because I had literally the opposite conclusion. The way he/she/it were described in Warbreaker, Austre is to Endowment what Domi and Jaddeth are to Devotion and Dominion and the ‘Almighty’ is to Honor. I’m really curious how you missed the connection, because it seemed blatantly overt to me...

I agree that there's a pretty strong connection, but unlike the Honor/The Almighty, Austre is not Endowment.  Rather, he's based off of a Returned:

Quote

Blaze1616

Austre: Is also also- is that Endowment? You referenced him as male, but Endowment's female. So I'm dying to know.

Brandon Sanderson

No, Austre is not. So who do you think Austre is?

Blaze1616

Since it's not Endowment I personally think it's a Returned from long ago.

Brandon Sanderson

That's a very good conclusion.

source
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2 hours ago, Scion of the Mists said:

I agree that there's a pretty strong connection, but unlike the Honor/The Almighty, Austre is not Endowment.  Rather, he's based off of a Returned:

I know. But I don’t think there can be any doubt that Endowment heavily influenced how the theology evolved. I’m actually really surprised that Brandon didn’t just make her Endowment by another name; she certainly seems to be.

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