dantlee Posted November 29, 2018 Report Share Posted November 29, 2018 On 11/13/2018 at 0:50 PM, Mailnaise said: Speaking of Taln... I went to the Skyward book signing in Seattle this last Saturday, and Brandon talked about the first version of WoK that he wrote in 2002. (It was so different than what we all know! No spren, no Knights Radiants, and no Bridge Four. Basically, the story starts with Taln stumbling into a town with a shardblade, and saying a disasters coming, and the story goes through trying to figure out whether he's actually a herald, and whether he's telling the truth or not. According to Brandon, it failed, but he plans to maybe publish it after he's finished the Stormlight series as another thing for fans to enjoy. Some of it is still cannon apparently.) Anyways, he talked a lot about Taln, and apparently Taln is the flasback character of Book 9. Taln will obviously become more important, and a whole book exploring the background of Odium's champion would make a lot of sense. My new vote is that Odium's champion will be Taln, but we'll see. I do like the idea of one of the heralds becoming Odium's champion, although we don't know nearly enough about how the oathpact works to figure out if that's even possible. I don't think it will be Nale, but I could definitely see it being Ishar considering what we found out about him in Edgedancer and OB (i.e. he's the one who told Nale killing off surgebinders would prevent a desolation, which was clearly false and aligns with Odium's goals, and the stormfather said that he seeks "death, his own and perhaps that of every man.") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kon-Tiki Posted November 29, 2018 Report Share Posted November 29, 2018 Moash strikes me as more of a pre-seeded end-of-book boss like Szeth was in WoR or Amaram was in OB, not an end-of-series boss. Maybe the kind of person Kaladin needs to deal with before he can swear an Ideal, for example. Having Moash be a Final Boss seems a little Kaladin-centric for that kind of conflict. I like the idea of it being a Herald, though, though I think Taln is maybe the least likely of them. I don't see it being Nale either, especially as it seems like things are shaking out to have both sides with a coalition of humans and parshmen, and Nale's already-shaky loyalty to Odium will be tested. @dantlee proposed Ishar which, especially as we get more information about the Heralds personally, could be a very strong choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ripheus23 Posted November 29, 2018 Report Share Posted November 29, 2018 3 hours ago, Kon-Tiki said: Having Moash be a Final Boss seems a little Kaladin-centric for that kind of conflict. Moash is the Judas Iscariot to Kaladin the Jesus, though. However, I do wonder... I'm gravitating ever more towards Taravangian as Odium's champion. I mean, I assumed that was a reveal anyway, and despite wiggle-room wording in the passage involved, well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoiseSpren Posted November 29, 2018 Report Share Posted November 29, 2018 Champions are behind us. He will try something new and mean. He lost this turn. I bet he will win the next. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ripheus23 Posted November 29, 2018 Report Share Posted November 29, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, NoiseSpren said: Champions are behind us. I never even thought of this option goshstormit! That almost makes even more sense, to me, though. It provides the narrative value of OB: that will turn out to be the book that solved the champion problem. Well, except we still weren't "shown" Honor's champion. (Actually, if Honor is dead, how do we even know that he can have a champion??? Or maybe OB solves the whole problem by collapsing both champions into Dalinar, somehow, and the reason why the contest could free Odium was because if Dalinar* surrendered to Odium, then as Bondsmith he would have been able to set Odium free?) Edited due to the post originally saying "if Odium surrendered to Odium" Edited November 30, 2018 by Ripheus23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Invested Beard Posted November 30, 2018 Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 6 hours ago, NoiseSpren said: Champions are behind us. He will try something new and mean. He lost this turn. I bet he will win the next. I'm with Noisespren. I think the champion thing isn't actually the way it's all going to play out. I don't feel like Brandon would lay it all out so clearly from the beginning like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solant Posted November 30, 2018 Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 19 minutes ago, Ookla the Bearded said: . I think the champion thing isn't actually the way it's all going to play out. I don't feel like Brandon would lay it all out so clearly from the beginning like that. I mostly agree, but they made a point of getting him to agree to the contest because it was implied that it was a binding agreement he had to adhere to. I'm sure we are thinking about it all the wrong way, but I'm certain he is still bound to it. I think he will still have to find another champion, or forfeit the contest, and I'm guessing he's not the forfeiting type . My guess it's that the champion thing will still happen, it just won't be the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Invocation Posted November 30, 2018 Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 Yeah, there's going to be some form of shenanigan that happens and the Champion fight will (for whatever reason) not free Odium as he wants. My money is on Cultivation messing with things again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenet Posted November 30, 2018 Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 Somehow I cannot let the feeling go, of Kaladin being very vulnerable when confronted with Odium's willingness to take away his pain. Kaladin is not even able to forgive himself for not being able to save everyone in the world. And he is certainly not willing to forgive anyone who has done anything to him or his family or friends ever. That is a very dangerous path to walk when Odium is about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kon-Tiki Posted November 30, 2018 Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 43 minutes ago, Jenet said: Somehow I cannot let the feeling go, of Kaladin being very vulnerable when confronted with Odium's willingness to take away his pain. Kaladin is not even able to forgive himself for not being able to save everyone in the world. And he is certainly not willing to forgive anyone who has done anything to him or his family or friends ever. That is a very dangerous path to walk when Odium is about. Odium's offer to remove your pain is mostly about divesting yourself of responsibility for the things you've done. Dalinar's rejection of Odium was about him taking responsibility for the terrible things he'd done, for example. Amaram and Mr T were good targets for Odium because they've both done things "for the greater good" that they feel enormously guilty about. Kaladin has almost exactly the opposite problem and to my mind is the worst possible target for Odium 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Invocation Posted November 30, 2018 Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 12 minutes ago, Kon-Tiki said: Odium's offer to remove your pain is mostly about divesting yourself of responsibility for the things you've done. Dalinar's rejection of Odium was about him taking responsibility for the terrible things he'd done, for example. Amaram and Mr T were good targets for Odium because they've both done things "for the greater good" that they feel enormously guilty about. Kaladin has almost exactly the opposite problem and to my mind is the worst possible target for Odium Yeah, I don't think Kaladin would give in at all. He's feels guilty not because of what he's done but that he hasn't done enough, and that's the line between someone who would fall to Odium or resist in my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted November 30, 2018 Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 19 hours ago, Ripheus23 said: However, I do wonder... I'm gravitating ever more towards Taravangian as Odium's champion. I mean, I assumed that was a reveal anyway, and despite wiggle-room wording in the passage involved, well... I will never understand how people can look at T and the diagram and not see the glaring problems that absolutely nothing there is what it seems to be. Odium and T are both being duped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solant Posted November 30, 2018 Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 I feel like Moash was always presented as a contrast to Kaladin, showing us how two very similarly motivated characters can make drastically different choices culminating with Kal progressing through the oaths and Moash giving in to Odium's influence. As it stands now, I don't think Kal would give in because he would see it as abandoning his oaths and his allies (especially Syl, considering the events of WoR), who he feels completely responsible for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vissy Posted December 1, 2018 Report Share Posted December 1, 2018 Moash never got bonded by a spren, did he? I don't see Kaladin and Moash as two people with comparable lives. Moash has been a complete outcast his entire life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Invocation Posted December 1, 2018 Report Share Posted December 1, 2018 16 minutes ago, Vissy said: Moash never got bonded by a spren, did he? I don't see Kaladin and Moash as two people with comparable lives. Moash has been a complete outcast his entire life. Comparable, maybe not, but Moash is most certainly a foil character to Kaladin. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vissy Posted December 1, 2018 Report Share Posted December 1, 2018 Maybe that is Sanderson's intention, though personally I don't see him as a threatening character (or an effective foil) at all. He'd have to go through a lot of... changes for that to be the case. Right now he's more or less a zombie who, instead of resolving his conflicts and truly choosing whether to side with Odium or against Odium, decided to leave them unresolved and just let Odium control him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted December 1, 2018 Report Share Posted December 1, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Vissy said: Maybe that is Sanderson's intention, though personally I don't see him as a threatening character (or an effective foil) at all. He'd have to go through a lot of... changes for that to be the case. Right now he's more or less a zombie who, instead of resolving his conflicts and truly choosing whether to side with Odium or against Odium, decided to leave them unresolved and just let Odium control him. He's a subservient dog on a leash. His complete divestment of all feeling and responsibility happens so abruptly that it's personally the least satisfying part of the Stormlight Archive for me as a whole. Edited December 1, 2018 by Calderis 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScavellTane Posted December 1, 2018 Report Share Posted December 1, 2018 Amaram and Moash abrupt turning was the low points for me. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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