Ghostbloods origin

[+Extesian]

Interesting new WoB that leads to a micro-theory.

Quote

Lurcher

Ghostbloods’ is an interesting name to me. Is that a name that originated on Roshar or somewhere else? Does the group have to do either with ghosts or blood? Or is it more a metaphorical name?

Brandon

The name of the Ghostbloods has roots in specific cosmere events, and means something in world.

Source

So my theory is that they started as cognitive shadows of some sort, perhaps descendents of a CS that had children, or simply CS with a body (hence blood).

I like the idea that it's of Threnodite origin, and the forces the IRE refer to. Curious to hear other ideas!

[+Invocation]

There was a theory that Kelsier founded the Ghostbloods for a while, which would tick the Cognitive Shadow box, but Threnody is a good bet too.

[+hwiles]

What's peculiar here to me is the appearance of the word "ghost" in the name. Much like the "hound" in axehound, ghost isn't really a word that makes sense on Roshar; if offworlders weren't involved the word "spren" would probably make a lot more sense given local convention and understanding.

My instinct would be that the term has roots on a Cosmere planet that doesn't have a firmly established and agreed upon path to life-after-death or undeath in the collective minds of its inhabitants as I think the existence of such a framework sort of precludes the cultural development of the "ghost" concept; if a civilization had firm agreement of what happened after death, they would be unlikely to speculate and invent words to describe souls that persist after death IMO. I would speculate then that Threnody would be unlikely to have a concept of "ghosts" given that they already have Shades. Whether ghost is being used metaphorically, ie: referencing something or someone that is "ghostlike" vs. Referencing a soul or spirit that exists independent of a physical body is totally beyond me.

The usage of the word blood sounds like an awesome candidate for being a red herring reference to hemalurgy and Scadrians as the origin so I'm going to just ignore it for now.

I propose that "blood" is probably being used in the metaphorical sense, ie: ghostbloods = "children/followers/siblings of the ghosts," rather than, "those with the literal blood of ghosts" or "those whose blood was taken from the dead."

Taken together,  my speculation is that the Ghostbloods are essentially the Rosharan Chapter of a greater Cosmere organization that was itself assembled by the followers of one or more powerful worldhoppers originating from a world with the religious diversity and lack of widespread access to the CR and SR to have "ghosts" develop organically as a part of its peoples' general cultural heritage.

I really want it to have originated with hemalurgy on Scadrial but it feels too obvious...

[Argent]

I like Threnody as a source or inspiration for the organization. Secret History left me feeling like the Shades are a much bigger deal in the Cosmere than Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell suggests, so approaching this idea from a very different - and distant - direction might pay for itself a decade or two down the line.

[+Child of Hodor]

17 minutes ago, Argent said:

I like Threnody as a source or inspiration for the organization. Secret History left me feeling like the Shades are a much bigger deal in the Cosmere than Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell suggests, so approaching this idea from a very different - and distant - direction might pay for itself a decade or two down the line.

The Ghostbloods are a very ambitious group. 

[Calderis]

1 hour ago, Child of Hodor said:

The Ghostbloods are a very ambitious group. 

Agreed, I've said before that if they were tied to any Shard it would seem to be that one (always with the caveat (if it weren't Splintered. Interesting that that may not matter) 

Which makes me wonder if this could be talking about the Ghostbloods themselves, and not just a totally new group like I originally thought. 

Quote

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

Those short stories on Threnody and First of the Sun, will we have full books for those?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Unlikely. Threnody yes. It's likely that you'll see a Threnody book. That's not a one hundred percent promise though. A Threnody book would not be about Silence or anything. Threnody's been a place I've wanted to do a book about for many years. And there's a group that's important later in the Cosmere that it'd be nice to have had a book about. But this comes down to where does my time end up getting spent? Sixth of the Dusk it's unlikely.

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

Will we at least get more short fiction about it then?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

That is possible, but no promises.

source

Because while we've seen them, we have very very little knowledge of them. 

[Quantus]

21 hours ago, Extesian said:

Interesting new WoB that leads to a micro-theory.

So my theory is that they started as cognitive shadows of some sort, perhaps descendents of a CS that had children, or simply CS with a body (hence blood).

I like the idea that it's of Threnodite origin, and the forces the IRE refer to. Curious to hear other ideas!

I like it. We have the example of the Horneaters that are part spren, and the Royal Locks that are part Returned, so that's at least two instances of Cognitive entities breeding with physical ones to a noticeable effect. I like the idea of it being Threnodite, Im curios if being a half-shade would be at all possible. 

 

1 hour ago, hwiles said:

What's peculiar here to me is the appearance of the word "ghost" in the name. Much like the "hound" in axehound, ghost isn't really a word that makes sense on Roshar; if offworlders weren't involved the word "spren" would probably make a lot more sense given local convention and understanding.

My instinct would be that the term has roots on a Cosmere planet that doesn't have a firmly established and agreed upon path to life-after-death or undeath in the collective minds of its inhabitants as I think the existence of such a framework sort of precludes the cultural development of the "ghost" concept; if a civilization had firm agreement of what happened after death, they would be unlikely to speculate and invent words to describe souls that persist after death IMO. I would speculate then that Threnody would be unlikely to have a concept of "ghosts" given that they already have Shades. Whether ghost is being used metaphorically, ie: referencing something or someone that is "ghostlike" vs. Referencing a soul or spirit that exists independent of a physical body is totally beyond me.

The usage of the word blood sounds like an awesome candidate for being a red herring reference to hemalurgy and Scadrians as the origin so I'm going to just ignore it for now.

I propose that "blood" is probably being used in the metaphorical sense, ie: ghostbloods = "children/followers/siblings of the ghosts," rather than, "those with the literal blood of ghosts" or "those whose blood was taken from the dead."

Taken together,  my speculation is that the Ghostbloods are essentially the Rosharan Chapter of a greater Cosmere organization that was itself assembled by the followers of one or more powerful worldhoppers originating from a world with the religious diversity and lack of widespread access to the CR and SR to have "ghosts" develop organically as a part of its peoples' general cultural heritage.

I really want it to have originated with hemalurgy on Scadrial but it feels too obvious...

I think Id be hesitant to use to much etymology for this sort of thing in the Cosmere, if only because of the weird ways Connection can play with a person's language skills, something that would basically have to come into play for worldhoppers. 

[Fezzik]

2 hours ago, Quantus said:

Horneaters that are part spren,

What? They are part listener, like herdazians.

[Calderis]

2 hours ago, Quantus said:

We have the example of the Horneaters that are part spren, and the Royal Locks that are part Returned, so that's at least two instances of Cognitive entities breeding with physical ones to a noticeable effect.

The Horneaters are part singer, not spren. The Returned also are unique in what we've seen of Cognitive Shadows (well, I guess each instance kind of is) in that they are anchored by a Splinter, but seemingly due normally when that Splinter is not fed. Their offspring gain a partial Splinter that does not have the same requirements as its parent... But the Cognitive entity that acted as their progenitor seems to function as a normal parent. 

2 hours ago, Quantus said:

Im curios if being a half-shade would be at all possible. 

Considering their touch causes harm inherently, I doubt it. 

 

Edited October 30, 2018 by Calderis

[Spoolofwhool]

13 hours ago, Calderis said:

Considering their touch causes harm inherently, I doubt it. 

Maybe if you used hemalurgy to splice a bit of them into someone and it managed to hold in their children...

[FirstSelector]

The Ghostbloods being from Threnody is both thematically fitting and has interesting cosmere significance.  Since Ambition was the first Shard Odium went after, it stands to reason that any people on Threnody would be the first group to feel the damage caused by inter-Shard conflict.  And while they don't have access to their own magic system per se, I can nevertheless imagine that they would be quite interested in understanding why the shades exist.

This also may give a hint as to what Mraize is up to.  If they're still angry about the whole Odium thing on Threnody, then they probably didn't have much to do except prepare for Odium's next play.  Mraize is nothing if not prepared and well-informed; perhaps he isn't at Hoid or Khriss' level, but he's probably in the next tier down.

Moreover, given that their actions have been a series of well-placed thumbs in Odium's eye, this sort of backstory fits quite well.

Edited November 1, 2018 by FirstSelector
a word

[Gasper]

On 10/30/2018 at 3:07 PM, Quantus said:

Royal Locks that are part Returned, so that's at least two instances of Cognitive entities breeding with physical ones to a noticeable effect. I like the idea of it being Threnodite, Im curios if being a half-shade would be at all possible. 

 

The Returned are a CS stapled back to their body with a splinter. The splinter is just keeping their "soul" from going into the beyond, kind of like what happened to Kelsier is Secret History. Their children are more invested and closer to the cognitive realm meaning that they can shift their personal cognitive filter easier than a regular human. They can manipulate the investure coming from the Spiritual Realm to the Physical through the Cognitive Easier, thus giving them more powers and abilities than a regular human.