sonoskay

Elhokar (spoilers for oathbringer)

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Elhokar  is a character I  can relate to deeply.  And as I read through  , I am getting deeply saddened  by his earnestness and  humility.    He is a man who tries so hard to succeed  and each time it is snatched away. Even in the end during the siege  he gets  so So close to the man he wants to be. And considering I dont think he will pull a jasnah   and manage to come back .

 Do you think he will have a real legacy in this story? Or is his fate purely to be  a tragedy, ultimately  leading to someone  who is his better to lead the kingdom better than he could?

 

 

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Brandon is not the type that would waste someone on pure tragedy.

 

There is always another secret.

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It's early to tell, but I like to think that if/when we see Gavinor POV chapters in the back half, this will play heavily there.

Really, though, the point of his death onward in the novel was so busy action-wise, I feel our protagonists never even really had much opportunity to process or discuss it

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I don’t know if he will have a lasting historical legacy as a king. It depends on how history is written. Humanity won the war against the Parshendi and discovered a new Desolation during his reign, so that might be something he is, at least partly credited for. 

I think his most important legacy will be with Gavinor and Kaladin, ironically. Kaladin was the one who really got to see him try, and I think that affects him. He won’t forget Elhokar. 

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1 hour ago, sonoskay said:

Elhokar  is a character I  can relate to deeply.  And as I read through  , I am getting deeply saddened  by his earnestness and  humility.    He is a man who tries so hard to succeed  and each time it is snatched away. Even in the end during the siege  he gets  so So close to the man he wants to be. And considering I dont think he will pull a jasnah   and manage to come back .

 Do you think he will have a real legacy in this story? Or is his fate purely to be  a tragedy, ultimately  leading to someone  who is his better to lead the kingdom better than he could?

If i'm being honest he wasn't always an optimal leader (there are better options whether wartime or peacetimes) but he did have the real intention that he was trying compared to well alot of other rulers in SA. 

@boldedpart :  I'd argue that by the end of his life he was literally living the man he wants to be. He was so earnest in his attempts try and was actually living it in his final moments. 

59 minutes ago, NoiseSpren said:

Brandon is not the type that would waste someone on pure tragedy.

Idk there's a couple from era 1 and era 2 of mistborn. There's even some SA

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19 minutes ago, goody153 said:

Idk there's a couple from era 1 and era 2 of mistborn. There's even some SA

Mostly used on building personalities of survivors (or Survivor:P).

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42 minutes ago, NoiseSpren said:

Mostly used on building personalities of survivors (or Survivor:P).

There was one character in particular that died  rather pointlessly in book 2. I got the impression  that he wasnt sure what to do with him. Add him to the death toll,  it will give the illusion  of loss.

It was a very effective way of   making  tragedy.   Its somthing a writer would definitely  do. But I want very much  for more to come of it. Particularly  since brandon Sanderson isnt a writer that particularly  indulges  in utter nihilism  that scene kind of imprints in my mind.

Incase it needs a bit of clarification,   the idea  that your best wasnt good enough/was too late  feels pretty nihilistic  to me. Of course i could be projecting  my own mindset into it.

Edited by sonoskay
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The way I see Elhokar, is that he was on a redemption arc of sorts.  He started as a spoiled, whiny kid, and ends as a king and almost knight radiant.

Realistically, I don't think the public will consider Elhokar a good king.  As all of this bad stuff happened during his reign. So I don't think he will have much of a legacy in that aspect.

However, he is a character close to the main ones.  And because of his character arc, I think he will be remembered and referanced in future books, because these books are from the perspectives of our main characters.

His death will definitely have an impact on the characters, though some more than others.

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Elhokar's character arc was complete when he started to say the first oath.  His death made that clear and final.  He has no other place in the story and never did.  He won't be remembered outside of those who saw his growth first hand.  For most of us, that's all we get.  That's a pretty good narrative work for a side character (even if that side character is a king)

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I said good riddance when he died and cheered moash

 

the real sad part was Sah dying 

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11 hours ago, TousenShadowForged said:

I said good riddance when he died and cheered moash

 

the real sad part was Sah dying 

If Elhokar had died at the end of Words of Radiance, I would’ve said good riddance. However, I don’t see how you could still wish him to die after the arc he went through during OB. He’s definitely not one of my favorite characters, but that redemption arc was just so good. And everything was building up to this epic moment where Elhokar would swear the first ideal in this heated, chaotic battle. Then it all just fell apart, and it was so tragic, heart-wrenching, and perfect. 

If you can’t tell, I think Elhokar’s death and that entire part of the Kholinar sequence is one of the best parts of the entire book, second only to “I am Unity” and the scene with Shallan and Hoid.

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On ‎10‎/‎30‎/‎2018 at 3:07 PM, StrikerEZ said:

If Elhokar had died at the end of Words of Radiance, I would’ve said good riddance. However, I don’t see how you could still wish him to die after the arc he went through during OB. He’s definitely not one of my favorite characters, but that redemption arc was just so good. And everything was building up to this epic moment where Elhokar would swear the first ideal in this heated, chaotic battle. Then it all just fell apart, and it was so tragic, heart-wrenching, and perfect. 

If you can’t tell, I think Elhokar’s death and that entire part of the Kholinar sequence is one of the best parts of the entire book, second only to “I am Unity” and the scene with Shallan and Hoid.

meh some  people on the hero side have to die and I was more interested on the parshendi/singers 

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I think that whole scene was just surreal. We had Kaladin being torn up about his friends dying (again, poor guy), then him seeing Mosah, his former friend, doing some of the killing, and simultaneously, we have Moash being torn up about his friends dying (I'm not saying I like Moash, but seriously, that was sad), then we suddenly have the king dying, after almost being able to survive. I think it's just a really good perspective on war, with a bird's eye view of how each side feels.

On a different note, thinking about the "I am Unity" part, has anyone considered if it's possible to create an entirely new Shard from bits of the others? I mean, Dalinar is pretty heavily Invested by all three of the Rosharian Shards, and it's not too hard to imagine that a combination of Honor, Cultivation, and Odium could create Unity.

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5 minutes ago, Reckless Reader said:

On a different note, thinking about the "I am Unity" part, has anyone considered if it's possible to create an entirely new Shard from bits of the others? I mean, Dalinar is pretty heavily Invested by all three of the Rosharian Shards, and it's not too hard to imagine that a combination of Honor, Cultivation, and Odium could create Unity.

I would guess that yes it is possible to form a new Shard from bits of other ones (although I wouldn't be surprised if that wasn't the case).  However, Dalinar is not nearly Invested enough by Cultivation/Odium (is he even Invested by them at all?) to form a tri-shard.  The Lord Ruler had enough of Preservation's power to literally move planets, but that's just a drop in the bucket of the entire Shard's power - he's only considered a Sliver.  

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1 minute ago, Scion of the Mists said:

I would guess that yes it is possible to form a new Shard from bits of other ones (although I wouldn't be surprised if that wasn't the case).  However, Dalinar is not nearly Invested enough by Cultivation/Odium (is he even Invested by them at all?) to form a tri-shard.  The Lord Ruler had enough of Preservation's power to literally move planets, but that's just a drop in the bucket of the entire Shard's power - he's only considered a Sliver.  

Yeah, you're right... Maybe he's just a big, mixed-up Sliver. (Can Slivers have names like that?)

For Cultivation, I was thinking that the Nightwatcher's gift counted as Investiture, and we know Odium was at the very least little-i invested in Dalinar's fate.

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I think thats the most likely thing to happen by the end of book 5. We've seen the dual shard happen. Yea a tri shard would be cool but its to close to the end mistborn. I have a feeling that conversation wit had with Dalinar fishing to find out if he knew about andolisium was a bit of forshadowing if you reassembled his pieces would he be the same thing. If it applied to uncle Andy it could apply to honor. Gather the shattered peices put it back together you might end up with unity instead.

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