QuaN7umVo1D

Unmade are Odiums Heralds??

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Could the Unmade be something like Honor's Heralds, but of Odium? And if they could be, wouldn't it be interesting if they were the "Patrons" of the Voidbinding "Orders"? If Ba-Ado-Mishram could grant Voidlight, maybe she was the "Patron" of the Voidbinding equivalent of the Bondsmiths. I would love to hear your opinions on this!

Edited by QuaN7umVo1D
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I posted a theory like this this a while ago:

I agree with you to a point. But I think there is an additional step. I believe the unmade are the spren that were created from the memories, perceptions and self-images of Odium's heralds after they were unmade. 

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There's definitely some correlation, but it's not exact.  Far less likely that any will be a Bondsmith specifically, though:

 

 

Quote

 

XS-Terrain [PENDING REVIEW]

Also, does each of the Unmade have a corresponding order of the Knights Radiant?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Eh... Kind of.

XS-Terrain [PENDING REVIEW]

Ok. So there are nine Unmade right, so which one is left out?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Bondsmith. But it's not as one to one, there's some fuzziness in there.

source

 

 
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I think it is more likely to relate to being heralds of the 9 Voidbinding orders, which also plays into 10 Heralds, 10 KR orders. There is also a good WoB that states that Unmade could theoretically be bonded with. 

I think Calderis mentioned before that the fuzziness could come as each of the Unmade could potentially act more similar to the bondsmith spren, but attached the the 9 Voidbinding orders, that the unmade were at one point, and in some form or another the heralds of. 

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54 minutes ago, kalamitous_emoashions said:

I think Calderis mentioned before that the fuzziness could come as each of the Unmade could potentially act more similar to the bondsmith spren, but attached the the 9 Voidbinding orders, that the unmade were at one point, and in some form or another the heralds of. 

Considering how adamant I am that the Fused aren't Voidbinding I'm sure that wasn't me. 

I do think that the unmade could be bonded to create more Bondsmiths and that is the reason that increasing the number of their order was seen as seditious. 

As far as any link between the u made and the varieties of Fused though, I currently don't see it. 

Edited by Calderis
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1 hour ago, kalamitous_emoashions said:

I think it is more likely to relate to being heralds of the 9 Voidbinding orders, which also plays into 10 Heralds, 10 KR orders. There is also a good WoB that states that Unmade could theoretically be bonded with. 

There are likely 10 Voidbinding orders though. This makes more sense if we consider the system to just to be the result of Odium and possibly another Shard's investiture invested into Roshar or the Greater Roshar System and the number is an outgrowth of the planet not the Shard.

Quote

I'm not certain yet how the ten levels of Voidbinding or its cousins...

- Oathbringer, Ars Arcanum

WoBs spoilered for length.

Spoiler

There are thirty or ten different types of magic systems in Stormlight Archive according to Brandon, depending on how they are classified. Since he also said that the main magic systems are fabrials, voidbinding, and surgebinding, it stands to reason that each one can be divided into ten different groups.

Quote

Brandon Sanderson

I started working on THE WAY OF KINGS fifteen years ago. I wrote the first version of the book in full back in 2003. It was always planned to be big. You don’t grow up reading Robert Jordan, Tad Williams, and Melanie Rawn without wanting to do your own big epic. When I showed it to my editor back in ’03, he thought it was too ambitious to be published, at least as my second novel.

There are thirty magic systems in this world, depending on how you count them, and around six thousand years of history I’ve mapped out. There are dozens of cultures, a continent of enormous scope, and a deep, rich mythology. However, when I say things like that, you have to realize that very little of it will end up in the first book. The best fantasy epics I’ve read begin with a personal look at the characters in the early books, then have a steady expansion into epic scope.

I’ve spent many years thinking about the epic fantasy genre, what makes it work, what I love about it, and how to deal with its inherent weaknesses. And so I’m trying to make use of the form of the novel (meaning how I place chapters and which viewpoints I put where) in order to convey the scope without distracting from the main stories I wish to tell.

Anyway, I don’t jump between dozens of characters in this novel. There are three central viewpoints, with two or so primary supporting viewpoints. I intend the first book to be its own story, focused and personal. I don’t want this to be the “Wow! Thirty Magic Systems!” series. I want it to be a series about a group of characters you care about, with a lush and real world that has solid and expansive depth.

In other words, I promise you a variety of magics, mythology, history, and cultures . . . but not all in the first book.

source  
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BenFoley

You have stated in your blog that Mistborn had three magic systems (Allomancy, Feruchemy and Hemalurgy) and also that The Way of Kings will have upwards of 20. For comparison, how many magic systems would you say the Wheel of Time series has? Two (One Power and the True Power)? How do you classify other abilities (not necessarily related to the One Power or True Power) such as Dreamwalking, viewing the Pattern, Wolfbrother-hoodness, and changing 'luck' or chance? Would you classify these abilities as a magic system in and of themselves? Has your chance to see the background material Robert Jordan left changed how you view these abilities?

Brandon Sanderson

This kind of gets sticky, as it's all up to semantics. Really, you could say that Mistborn had a different magic system for each type of Misting. But at the same time, you could argue that something like X-Men—with huge numbers of powers—all falls under the same blanked 'magic system.' And take Hemalurgy in Mistborn 3—is it a new magic system, or just a reinterpretation of Allomancy and Feruchemy?

So what do I mean by twenty or thirty magic systems in Kings? Hard to say, as I don't want to give spoilers. I have groupings of abilities that have to deal with a certain theme. Transformation, Travel, Pressure and Gravity, that sort of thing. By one way of counting, there are thirty of these—though by another way of grouping them together, there are closer to ten.

Anyway, I'd say that the Wheel of Time has a fair number of Magic systems. The biggest one would be the One Power/True Power, which is more of a blanket "Large" magic system kind of like Allomancy being a blanket for sixteen powers—only the WoT magic system is far larger. I'd count what Perrin/Egwene do in Tel'aran'rhiod as a different magic system. What Mat does as something else, the Talents one can have with the Power something else. Though I'd group all of the Foretelling/Viewing powers into one.

Sounds like a topic for a paper, actually. Any of you academics out there feel like writing one?

Let's just say that The Wheel of Time has a smaller number of larger magic systems, and I tend to use a larger number of smaller magic systems. Confusing enough? ;)

source
Quote

Questioner

How many magic systems are in The Stormlight Archive, and how many of them haven't been seen?

Brandon Sanderson

I would say the only major one you haven’t seen is Voidbinding, it depends on how you count them.  I count fabrials as one, Surgebinding as one, and Voidbinding as one.  And then the Old Magic is kind of its own weird thing.

source
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6 hours ago, Calderis said:

Considering how adamant I am that the Fused aren't Voidbinding I'm sure that wasn't me. 

I do think that the unmade could be bonded to create more Bondsmiths and that is the reason that increasing the number of their order was seen as seditious. 

As far as any link between the u made and the varieties of Fused though, I currently don't see it. 

I completely agree with you. I think I have posted a theory before that the fused are surgebinding and don't voidbind, and that humans were the original voidbinders. 

I wasn't talking about the fused, simply a link between odium --> unmade --> voidbinding. I don't think the fused fit in there at all. I think they are something that came later. 

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dvoraen

"To see the future originates with the Unmade..." "Voidbinding is a dark and evil thing, and the soul of it was to try to divine the future." Is it therefore safe to say that Voidbinding, by extension, also originates with the Unmade?

Brandon Sanderson

Not always. But usually.

source

Interestingly a couple of days ago we also got this new WoB, that voidbinding 'usually' originates with the unmade. 

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I was reading the chapter with the confrontation between Re-shepir and Shallan and she makes the grim observation that She seems like a creation-spren, a dark twisted creation spren. 

So I had the thought that perhaps the unmade are all spren related to the radiants, but twisted by Odium into something different.

When you look at their descriptions and names, there are some things that could hint at that, where a type of spren that might be linked to a Knight Radiant they do do similar or opposin/twisted things.

Sja-anat could for instance be a twisted spren associted with elsecallers, perhaps an inkspren, something that gave her the ability to transform and bring "insight" (related to wisdom which is related to Elsecallers)

Chemoarish is called the Dust mother (similar to Dust bringer)

There is also Yelig-nar called Blightwind again the wind like Windrunner.

Some of them are considered mindless, and others seem like individuals, so it could be that the former were secondary spren, like creation spren and the latter were primary spren.

Ba-ado-mishram is considered intelligent, and It gave singers connection and such, the Lightspren of willshapers can seemingly communicate in someway that means they all seem to know the same thing (at least on the ship in shadesmar)

It's just something I was thinking about, but it seems as plausible as anything as we really know so little about them.

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I think that because there are 9 that it’s a hint they come from Braize. Or Ashyn (I’ve been trying to find a wob that tells what number Ashyn is associated with) which could mean they are the gods the voibringers brought with them maybe??

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3 minutes ago, PelekinikeleT said:

I think that because there are 9 that it’s a hint they come from Braize. Or Ashyn (I’ve been trying to find a wob that tells what number Ashyn is associated with) which could mean they are the gods the voibringers brought with them maybe??

Ashyn, like Roshar, is 10

Quote

Herald (paraphrased)

Is there more significance to the 10 other planets around the Rosharan star system and them being gaseous? We know that Roshar's moons have unnatural orbits; so there seems to be some astronomical manipulation in the system.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes there is significance of 16 in cosmere and 10 in Rosharan system.

Herald (paraphrased)

The outer 10 gas giants in the Rosharan system suggest a tie to the number 10 that predates the arrival of the current Shards. Is the prominent numerology we see around the cosmere an inherent property of the planets, rather than the Shards who invest them?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Big RAFO.

Herald (paraphrased)

Would Ashyn/Braize share the 10-centric numerology of Roshar?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes 10-centric is for the entire Rosharan planetary system...wait Braize is 9-centric.

source

 

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Well there goes my theory... thanks a lot @Calderis :P nice catch on that Shallan POV @Rakei

Edited by PelekinikeleT
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4 minutes ago, PelekinikeleT said:

Well there goes my theory... thanks a lot @Calderis :P nice catch on that Shallan POV @Rakei

No problem I just found the section.

Quote

This thing was ancient. Created long ago as a splinter of the soul of something even more terrible, Re-Shephir had been ordered to sow chaos, spawning horrors to confuse and destroy men. Over time, slowly, she’d become increasingly intrigued by the things she murdered.

Her creations had come to imitate what she saw in the world, but lacking love or affection. Like stones come alive, content to be killed or to kill with no attachment or enjoyment. No emotions beyond an overpowering curiosity, and that ephemeral attraction to violence.

Almighty above … it’s like a creationspren. Only so, so wrong.

 

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Well, I am now more confused :D. I believe all of you have good points, and I have some new viewpoints on Voidbinding, which is awesome, but bottomline is we are gonna find more clues with the upcoming novels, so we can only WAFO(Wait And Find Out) and...you know... theorize, I guess. :D 

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