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Harmony is not fair to the northerns


king of nowhere

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Harmony has complained that he has made life too easy for them, and therefore they don't progress, while southerners faced much more hardship and progressed much more. In particular, he complains that not much exploration has been done outside of the basin.

I believe, however, that harmony is missing a few key points.

1) harmony made the basin surrounded by nigh-impassable mountains, with only two available passes. Outside of those mountains, are semidesertic lands. Outside of those are full-blown deserts. Short of putting minefields around the roughs, I don't know what more harmony could have done to keep the population boxed in. 

2) the southerners only have their allomantic technology because kelsier showed them. I'm sure if somebody had shown them the basics, even the northeners would have managed it. And it's not like they didn't experiment with the metallic arts, but they are still tied to the basic paradigm that powers are tied to the person. I'm sure just adding some bits in the words of founding could have fixed that; I mean, they even reference electricity and flight. But they do not mention at all that it's possible to make metallic powers for everyone.

3) the southerners have access to harmonium. Enough of it that they can use it as fuel, or to make bombs. The northerners don't have it.

So, while sazed claims that he wanted the people to explore outside, he surrounded them with impassable obstacles. He complains that the southerners are more advanced, but forgets that they had their allomantic technology handed down, while the northerners weren't even aware of its possible existance. Finally, he gave the most precious resource for that technology available to southerners, but not to northerners.

I know he doesn't claim to be infallible, but the claim that he has "made people's life too easy" doesn't hold to close scrutiny. Sure, it made surviving easy, not thriving.

 

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1 hour ago, king of nowhere said:

Sure, it made surviving easy, not thriving.

That was what I took away as his whole point. Sure, they were living and breeding and inching forward technologically every so slowly, but he does say "you were to have had the radio a century ago." He made it to where they don't have any real shortage most of the time (barring psychopathic pseudo-deities messing things up) so they don't try to improve anything. Their current level of technology is just fine for them, so they stay there. Only carrots, no sticks. The others had all sticks and barely any carrots, which made each one precious and gave them the drive to strive for it. That's the portion he's talking about being too easy. 

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He was complaining about making things too easy that gave complacent progression for the Southern Scadrial. Like they're supposed to have radio technology 1 century ago(that's a huge technological delay especially in the eyes of a deity) and agriculture is unpracticed i believe(because everything is too fertile).

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1) harmony made the basin surrounded by nigh-impassable mountains, with only two available passes. Outside of those mountains, are semidesertic lands. Outside of those are full-blown deserts. Short of putting minefields around the roughs, I don't know what more harmony could have done to keep the population boxed in. 

Exploration and discovery comes when people are in need or lacking something. It does not happen when they're content and that they have everything they need. Those obstacles mean nothing if the region would need something from another region. 

That's how human nature works.

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2) the southerners only have their allomantic technology because kelsier showed them. I'm sure if somebody had shown them the basics, even the northeners would have managed it. And it's not like they didn't experiment with the metallic arts, but they are still tied to the basic paradigm that powers are tied to the person. I'm sure just adding some bits in the words of founding could have fixed that; I mean, they even reference electricity and flight. But they do not mention at all that it's possible to make metallic powers for everyone.

How do you know that wasn't Sazed's plan in the first place ? Shards literally manipulate events and people without people involved even knowing it(i doubt that even Kelsier would know about it if Sazed really moves him like a piece in a board). 

I wouldn't even be surprised if Kelsier himself didn't know that Kelsier helping the Southerners was possibly Sazed's preferred future possibility. Pretty sure he saw that future where Kelsier helped the Northerners from a mile away. 

You should already even have a clue about this assuming you read other Cosmere series that Shards can make it look like people are doing it on their own when they manipulated the events/people to get to that point where some person started doing stuff for them

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3) the southerners have access to harmonium. Enough of it that they can use it as fuel, or to make bombs. The northerners don't have it.

We don't even know how they had access to Harmonium in the first place. That's probably even a longterm plan by Sazed why they have access to it. 

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So, while sazed claims that he wanted the people to explore outside, he surrounded them with impassable obstacles. He complains that the southerners are more advanced, but forgets that they had their allomantic technology handed down, while the northerners weren't even aware of its possible existance. Finally, he gave the most precious resource for that technology available to southerners, but not to northerners.

I know he doesn't claim to be infallible, but the claim that he has "made people's life too easy" doesn't hold to close scrutiny. Sure, it made surviving easy, not thriving.

He is making a comparison to the societal advancement why he thinks he shouldn't have given auto-food lands to the northerners. By having everything they need on the same place they weren't motivated to go away while Southerners who had it rough(i doubt it wasn't his plan to have Kelsier there at the right time .. he is a shard remember) he probably gave them the means to survive.

Another key-point to remember is that Harmony is not just preservation. People seems to think he just supposed to protect/help people and if he doesn't do that it is his fault. He is also equally Ruin. He urges things to die, suffer and change. People dying for the better doesn't necessarily mean bad for him (remember how the last Ruin tried to obliterate everything yah)

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Harmony is not fair to the Northerners

He doesn't have to be fair to anybody. He is basically their god. They got lucky their god even cares about them 

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8 hours ago, goody153 said:

How do you know that wasn't Sazed's plan in the first place ? Shards literally manipulate events and people without people involved even knowing it(i doubt that even Kelsier would know about it if Sazed really moves him like a piece in a board). 

 

Yes, that is a possibility, although I don't like to think he was lying to wax; he seemed in sincerity mode, and he never directly lied previously (misleading truth, that yes).

So I'm not saying that harmony didn't plan for it. I'm not even saying harmony should have done things differently. What I'm saying is that he can't say that the northerners has all the advantage at the beginning: sure, they had the advantage of a fertile land, but the southerners had other advantages that the northerners lacked.

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6 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

Yes, that is a possibility, although I don't like to think he was lying to wax; he seemed in sincerity mode, and he never directly lied previously (misleading truth, that yes).

So I'm not saying that harmony didn't plan for it. I'm not even saying harmony should have done things differently. What I'm saying is that he can't say that the northerners has all the advantage at the beginning: sure, they had the advantage of a fertile land, but the southerners had other advantages that the northerners lacked.

I would say they had different advantages

It honestly didn't seem like Harmony was nagging on the northerners to me. It felt like Harmony was just making a comparison and reflecting on his mistake on giving too much.

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