Why do the wikis refer to Ym as a Truthwatcher?

[Elerubard]

This might be a pointless thread, but it's something that struck me as weird. The Coppermind and the Stormlight Archive refer to Ym as a likely Truthwatcher. Considering the fact that he gave children shoes in exchange for their stories. That seems to be more in line with the Edgedancers oath to "remember those who have been forgotten." I don't remember him doing anything that resembled casting illusions like you would expect with Lightweaving.

[cem]

Because his spren looks nothing like Wyndle. And the fact he'd never Lightweaved (Lightwoven?) doesn't mean anything, since he'd never manipulated the Abrasion Surge either.

Edited May 4, 2014 by cem

[Sylveris]

Firstly, its in the wrong forum, it should be under the WoR board.

 

Secondly,

It is based on his surges, as well as the fact that his spren looks nothing like Wyndle, while we don't know how Renarin's spren looks.

Regarding the surges, he used regrowth on the child, which is part of Progression, and when darkness comes for him, his spren tells him to 'use the light', or something along thous lines, which is taken as a reference to to his other surge, Illumination. Also, it makes sense if my theory of primary-secondary surges is correct (that each order learns one of the surges quicker than the other, like Illumination for Lightweavers, Adhesion for Windrunners and Abrasion for Edgedancers), since it puts Progression as the Truthwatchers primary surge and Illumination as their secondary.

 

Edit: partly ninja'd 

Edited May 4, 2014 by Sylveris

[Kurkistan]

There's really no need for speculation here, I don't think.

 

Source:

 

Q:  Does each specific order have their own spren that they would bond?

A:  Yes. Each order has a spren that is distinctive. All Windrunners come from wind- from honorspren.

 

As Cem said, Ym's spren looked nothing like Wyndle. Ergo it's of a different type and he and Lift are of different orders. Add that to Regrowth and it's not so much educated conjecture as a matter of fact.

[maxal]

Don't you find it strange we got two Truthwatchers in the same book?????? Agree, Ym is most likely dead, but still... Besides, Truthwatchers seem like such a strange order I am baffled as to why we got two at such an early state or any state for that matter.

[GreyPilgrim]

Don't you find it strange we got two Truthwatchers in the same book?????? Agree, Ym is most likely dead, but still... Besides, Truthwatchers seem like such a strange order I am baffled as to why we got two at such an early state or any state for that matter.

 

I don't find this overly strange in any way. I don't think Ym served much more purpose than to show us that there are Surgebinders popping up everywhere, to show some stuff about Iri, and to provide that whole "the One" philosophy, so it doesn't really matter what Order he is. Brandon could also be withholding information about as many Orders as possible. Also,

Ym is pretty dead, so I don't think it is very important. Not many people survive a Shardblade through the chest, unless somehow he used Regrowth on himself. I highly doubt that, though.

[Aleksiel]

His chapter has two Vedev icons (whatever we call them), which is strange if he was a Truthwatcher. It's true his spren is nothing like Wyndle, but then

Lift is partly in Shadesmar, so perhaps she sees him differently than anyone else would.

[maxal]

His chapter has two Vedev icons (whatever we call them), which is strange if he was a Truthwatcher. It's true his spren is nothing like Wyndle, but then

Lift is partly in Shadesmar, so perhaps she sees him differently than anyone else would.

 

What about the icons? I noticed them as well but I do not know what they mean. I am not very Cosmere versed...

[Kurkistan]

@Aleksiel

 

That is the Herald associated with Loving/Healing, though, and Brandon is in the habit of associating the appropriate Heralds with the theme/contents of the chapters.

 

@Maxal

 

He's referring to the human faces in the "arches" over each chapter. They correspond to the ones rimming the Surge chart from WoK. I forget whether we have direct WoB on this, but it's basically known at this point that those faces represent the Heralds associated with each Order, and in turn the Divine Attributes associated with the Heralds/Orders. You'll note that you get a lot of Vev (Edgedancers and Loving/Healing) in Kaladin's flashbacks to his training as a surgeon, for instance.

Edited May 4, 2014 by Kurkistan

[maxal]

That is the Herald associated with Loving/Healing, though, and Brandon is in the habit of associating the appropriate Heralds with the theme/contents of the chapters.

 

The Herald is associated with the theme of the action or with order of the character talking? Geez, I never really put much thought into those icons...

[Kurkistan]

Yeah, it's a fun little tidbit. Though it can be a tad spoilery sometimes: for instance, whenever a Kaladin chapter has two Jezriens I mentally refer to it as a "Super Jezrien" chapter and know I can look forward to some serious Protecting/Leading. I EDITed in a bit more explanation into my post above.

Edited May 4, 2014 by Kurkistan

[GreyPilgrim]

The Herald is associated with the theme of the action or with order of the character talking? Geez, I never really put much thought into those icons...

 

Yeah, every Herald has his or her Divine Attributes, which Brandon uses to ascribe ideas to each chapter and put in the chapter headers. Often, of course, the Herald matches the order of the Radiant in the chapter, because presumably the Radiant will often do things or have ideas in line with those of his or her Order's Herald. It just so happens that such is not the case in Ym's interlude. It's fun to look at the headers before reading the chapter to try to guess what it will be about.

 

Edit: ninja'd by Kurk 

Edited May 4, 2014 by GreyPilgrim

[maxal]

Even if we got it wrong and Ym was indeed an Edgedancer (as opposed to a Truthwatcher), it is still two characters from the same order.... I wonder why that is. Why would Sanderson introduced purposely two characters from the same order? What was the added value? He wanted to talk about Iri and the One. Fine, but he didn't need to make Ym a Truthwatcher or and Edgedancer? He could have introduced a character from any other order we haven't met yet.........

 

Thoughts?

[GreyPilgrim]

Even if we got it wrong and Ym was indeed an Edgedancer (as opposed to a Truthwatcher), it is still two characters from the same order.... I wonder why that is. Why would Sanderson introduced purposely two characters from the same order? What was the added value? He wanted to talk about Iri and the One. Fine, but he didn't need to make Ym a Truthwatcher or and Edgedancer? He could have introduced a character from any other order we haven't met yet.........

Thoughts?

I have some thoughts, but since the purpose of this thread has been satisfied, maybe you should make a topic to address the specific question of why Brandon made two Truthwatchers, in the WoR board so we don't have to spoiler tag everything.

[maxal]

I have some thoughts, but since the purpose of this thread has been satisfied, maybe you should make a topic to address the specific question of why Brandon made two Truthwatchers, in the WoR board so we don't have to spoiler tag everything.

 

I made a thread in the WoR subforum.

[Yalb]

Don't Truth watchers share regrowth and lightweaving? Maybe what we read was a light weave of Ym getting stabbed with a shardblade. Just a thought I had when I read that. Maybe I'm wrong on the weaves though.

[GreyPilgrim]

Don't Truth watchers share regrowth and lightweaving? Maybe what we read was a light weave of Ym getting stabbed with a shardblade. Just a thought I had when I read that. Maybe I'm wrong on the weaves though.

You are correct on the Surges. However, I don't believe we saw a Lightweaving. We were in Ym's point of view, and it said "Experience ended", and for him experience means life. If he hadn't died, it wouldn't have said that. The only way he could he alive is

if Nale did Ym like he did Szeth, which I doubt

[Elerubard]

Yeah..., sorry about the placement of the thread. It's the first one I've tried starting here.

[Leuthie]

Why wouldn't you think Nale could be shardblading Radiants in order to remove their bonds, then bringing them back with his fabrial to serve him? He did it with Szeth...why not others?

[Elerubard]

Why wouldn't you think Nale could be shardblading Radiants in order to remove their bonds, then bringing them back with his fabrial to serve him? He did it with Szeth...why not others?

Szeth doesn't seem to have a bond when he's killed. He might still not. Nale seems to be giving shards and other nasty things like Nightblood to people in order to help him hunt down surgebinders. Nale only brought Szeth back to life because he found his loyalty to the Shin's backwards moral code endearing. We have no reason to think that a surgebinder would even work with Nale after what he does to them.

[Patrick Star]

Ym has the progression surge, which narrows him down to either a Truthwatcher or Edgedancer.

 

His spren is nothing like Wyndle, and Syl said that every spren (of a certain type) is basically the same person.

 

As such, it's only logical to assume that he's a Truthwatcher.

 

On a side-note, I wonder if Truthwatchers were the most cosmere-aware group, as they are able to "see" into the future.  That would explain Ym and his story.

[Swimmingly]

Scanning the thread, I'd like to point something out: The way Wyndle appears to Lift is radically different than how most spren appear (less of a "fairy-like" vibe and interacts with the world in Lift's eyes oddly). In addition, Lift can touch spren and is "partly in the Cognitive Realm."

So, my question is, is Lift maybe perceiving Wyndle differently than others might? Wyndle and Ym's spren have some similarities: Growing plants, lights or crystals. However, Wyndle seems much more mature and much more real.

So, is it possible that Ym is also an Edgedancer, but without the same advantages given to Lift by the Night mother that allows her to interact with spren more easily? After all, Ym never mentioned future-sight, and the "light" could refer to Stormlight rather than Illumination.

[WitSpren]

Scanning the thread, I'd like to point something out: The way Wyndle appears to Lift is radically different than how most spren appear (less of a "fairy-like" vibe and interacts with the world in Lift's eyes oddly). In addition, Lift can touch spren and is "partly in the Cognitive Realm."

So, my question is, is Lift maybe perceiving Wyndle differently than others might? Wyndle and Ym's spren have some similarities: Growing plants, lights or crystals. However, Wyndle seems much more mature and much more real.

So, is it possible that Ym is also an Edgedancer, but without the same advantages given to Lift by the Night mother that allows her to interact with spren more easily? After all, Ym never mentioned future-sight, and the "light" could refer to Stormlight rather than Illumination.

No that would not work out with Ym's Spren whispering to him "No"    "Light" just before Darkness killed him.    Ym's Spren was trying to get him to Lightweave to escape from Darkness.    He was not telling him to use Friction.

 

Ym was a Truthwatcher.

[Moogle]

So, my question is, is Lift maybe perceiving Wyndle differently than others might? Wyndle and Ym's spren have some similarities: Growing plants, lights or crystals. However, Wyndle seems much more mature and much more real.

 

Spren take after their Surges. Syl is Gravity and Pressure - she's a gust of wind sometimes, and she floats (ignoring gravity). Ivory is Teleportation and Transportation, and we see him 'disappear' (likely teleporting somewhere nearby). Wyndle is Abrasion and Growth, and Wyndle grows around to move and also has crystals that grow out of him, giving him a rough appearance. (Yeah, it's a stretch on Abrasion.)

 

Ym's spren, if he's a Truthwatcher, is Progression (Growth) and Illumination. Ym's spren was growing light.

Something moved in the dimness to his right. Ym glanced in that direction, but didn’t change his posture. The spren had been coming more often lately— specks of light, like those from a piece of crystal suspended in a sunbeam. He did not know its type, as he had never seen one like it before. It moved across the surface of the workbench, slinking closer. When it stopped, light crept upward from it, like small plants growing or climbing from their burrows. When it moved again, those withdrew.

...

He withdrew his hand and waited . The spren inched forward—tentative, like a cremling creeping out of its crack after a storm. It stopped, and light grew upward from it in the shape of tiny sprouts. Such an odd sight.

 

Like, I cannot for the life of me imagine this spren not embodying Illumination as a Surge.

 

Your idea is interesting, but I would be genuinely surprised if Ym was not a Truthwatcher. Like, I'm 99.99% certain he is. He embodies his Order's fundamentals perfectly - he learns from all the urchins he talks to about their life story, and you can definitely work Giving into what he does with the shoes. Ym would make a perfect spy/information gatherer if he just asked the urchins about what was happening in the city.

Edited May 8, 2014 by Moogle

[Swimmingly]

I know, I'm probably wrong. Just thought I'd mention something I thought, even though it's a stretch. When something hasn't been said, I try to say it.