Pagliacci Posted October 19, 2018 Report Share Posted October 19, 2018 From Wikipedia Quote First, suppose that the famous ship sailed by the hero Theseus in a great battle has been kept in a harbour as a museum piece. As the years go by some of the wooden parts begin to rot and are replaced by new ones. After a century or so, all of the parts have been replaced. Is the "restored" ship still the same object as the original? Second, suppose that each of the removed pieces were stored in a warehouse, and after the century, technology develops to cure their rotting and enable them to be put back together to make a ship. Is this "reconstructed" ship the original ship? And if so, is the restored ship in the harbour still the original ship too? How would this impact a Ship's Cognitive self/identity? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashertliden Posted October 19, 2018 Report Share Posted October 19, 2018 Quote Oversleep I have a philosophy question that could actually be answered in cosmere: Ship of Theseus in cosmere. If I went and replaced every part of the ship, would it still - Cognitively - be the same thing? What if I replaced everything and made a second ship out of the parts from the first one? What could somebody watching all of that from Shadesmar tell me? Brandon Sanderson You're right, part of the design of the cosmere (which has some deep roots in classical philosophy) was an attempt to answer the Ship of Theseus question. In the cosmere, part of the Cognitive--and even spiritual--aspect of a thing (particularly if it isn't sentient) is delineated by the way that thinking beings define it. Per the old joke about the axe, if you replace your axe head and think of the new axe as "Your Axe," then the cognitive and spiritual aspects of that thing will grow to reflect that. If you replaced every part of your ship, and gave the sailors time to sail it, thinking of it as the same ship--it would become the same ship. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara Posted October 19, 2018 Report Share Posted October 19, 2018 Brandon talks quite a bit about the Ship of Theseus issue. https://wob.coppermind.net/adv_search/?query=theseus 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leyrann Posted October 19, 2018 Report Share Posted October 19, 2018 I feel proud of, when I read this thread title, figuring out Brandon's answer to the paradox by myself. Then again part of my understanding of the cosmere can probably be traced back to Brandon talking about the Ship of Theseus... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animalia Posted October 19, 2018 Report Share Posted October 19, 2018 I wonder if the Aimians the ones made up of Cremlimgs, ALSO apply to the paradox? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Invocation Posted October 19, 2018 Report Share Posted October 19, 2018 1 minute ago, animalia said: I wonder if the Aimians the ones made up of Cremlimgs, ALSO apply to the paradox? I'd say probably, yeah. I mean technically they'd have the same personality even if they alter which cremlings make them up, yeah? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weltall Posted October 19, 2018 Report Share Posted October 19, 2018 51 minutes ago, animalia said: I wonder if the Aimians the ones made up of Cremlimgs, ALSO apply to the paradox? They do. Brandon mentioned the Dysians when he talked about various types of immortality in the Cosmere. He mentioned that they maintain a persistent personality so long as enough of the 'hordelings' that make them up survive, even if individual ones are constantly dying and being replaced with new ones. Cognitively speaking they're the same individual, so very much in keeping with the paradox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReaderAt2046 Posted October 21, 2018 Report Share Posted October 21, 2018 On 10/19/2018 at 11:40 AM, animalia said: I wonder if the Aimians the ones made up of Cremlimgs, ALSO apply to the paradox? On 10/19/2018 at 11:43 AM, Invocation said: I'd say probably, yeah. I mean technically they'd have the same personality even if they alter which cremlings make them up, yeah? On 10/19/2018 at 0:36 PM, Weltall said: They do. Brandon mentioned the Dysians when he talked about various types of immortality in the Cosmere. He mentioned that they maintain a persistent personality so long as enough of the 'hordelings' that make them up survive, even if individual ones are constantly dying and being replaced with new ones. Cognitively speaking they're the same individual, so very much in keeping with the paradox. Doesn't seem that paradoxical to me. I mean, the same thing is sort of true of humans: We lose and gain individual cells all the time, and that doesn't change who we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animalia Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 57 minutes ago, ReaderAt2046 said: Doesn't seem that paradoxical to me. I mean, the same thing is sort of true of humans: We lose and gain individual cells all the time, and that doesn't change who we are. True but, and I could be wrong about this, I believe Brain Cells are different. They have pretty long lives compared to other cells Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts