Long Game 50: News of My Demise

[Furamirionind]

Metaterminal/Orlok

I think Orlok is the obvious choice to be praised this turn.

Edited November 11, 2018 by Furamirionind
Added 'reasoning'

[Steeldancer]

I don’t have a ton of time right now; but yeah this isn’t great. We need greater activity if we are going to win. We lost a Lynch and a coinshot attack. That’s basically a giant waste of a cycle for us. I’m going to go with metaterminal Araris . We need to be decisive this round, and the coinshot needs to be active. Idc if you have no suspicions, hit someone tonight!!!! It’ll give us some sort of information. 

[Elandera]

There's nothing immediately apparent regarding the choice to kill Fifth, though (like Orlok) I'm fairly certain it was not the coinshot. Fifth had recently come to be considered fairly trusted among the village, and I can't think of a reason for a village coinshot to kill him.

I should have more time tomorrow to do a better analysis.

While I'm slightly suspicious of MetaTerminal, I'm also not a fan of such a quick bandwagon at the beginning of the cycle as it tends to kill discussion. Based on gut-reads alone, I've got a bit of suspicion currently on Jondesu.

Jondesu/Rathmaskal

Edited November 11, 2018 by Elandera

[Orlok Tsubodai]

28 minutes ago, Elandera said:

There's nothing immediately apparent regarding the choice to kill Fifth, though (like Orlok) I'm fairly certain it was not the coinshot. Fifth had recently come to be considered fairly trusted among the village, and I can't think of a reason for a village coinshot to kill him.

I should have more time tomorrow to do a better analysis.

While I'm slightly suspicious of MetaTerminal, I'm also not a fan of such a quick bandwagon at the beginning of the cycle as it tends to kill discussion. Based on gut-reads alone, I've got a bit of suspicion currently on Jondesu.

Jondesu/Rathmaskal

Elandera, would you explain why you praised Rathmaskal?

[Elandera]

6 minutes ago, Orlok Tsubodai said:

Elandera, would you explain why you praised Rathmaskal?

It's because they reminded me to burn pewter. If it wasn't for that, I'd be dead since I didn't read Wyrm's announcement closely enough to see the night turn ended at the same time. I thought it had been extended.

[Jondesu]

35 minutes ago, Elandera said:

There's nothing immediately apparent regarding the choice to kill Fifth, though (like Orlok) I'm fairly certain it was not the coinshot. Fifth had recently come to be considered fairly trusted among the village, and I can't think of a reason for a village coinshot to kill him.

I should have more time tomorrow to do a better analysis.

While I'm slightly suspicious of MetaTerminal, I'm also not a fan of such a quick bandwagon at the beginning of the cycle as it tends to kill discussion. Based on gut-reads alone, I've got a bit of suspicion currently on Jondesu.

Jondesu/Rathmaskal

Do you have any more explanation than gut read?  I'd like to respond (as I'm attempting to be more active), but there's not much I can do to respond to "gut read".  Fair enough if that's truly all it is, but I'd like at least a chance of swaying your opinion.

I currently don't see why Orlok is so highly to be praised, since he was going after Fifth it seemed, who is innocent, though I also don't think that makes Orlok look guiltier (just that he was wrong). I don't have a vote to place right now, but I promise to be back to place both votes later once I get a chance to form some better opinions.

[Elandera]

2 minutes ago, Jondesu said:

Do you have any more explanation than gut read?  I'd like to respond (as I'm attempting to be more active), but there's not much I can do to respond to "gut read".  Fair enough if that's truly all it is, but I'd like at least a chance of swaying your opinion.

I currently don't see why Orlok is so highly to be praised, since he was going after Fifth it seemed, who is innocent, though I also don't think that makes Orlok look guiltier (just that he was wrong). I don't have a vote to place right now, but I promise to be back to place both votes later once I get a chance to form some better opinions.

It's just a gut read for now. I'll have time tomorrow morning to do a full analysis. If I don't find something more substantial, I'll remove my vote.

[+Ark1002]

I, with everyone else, am voting for MetaTerminal, and regret withdrawing my vote last time. I will again put my praize on Orlok Tsubodai.

[Araris Valerian]

Well I guess we don't need any more votes on Meta. I'm going to try and do some analysis this cycle of who I think would be village/elim in the two outcomes of this lynch, and I suggest that others do the same, so that we don't lose a cycle of discussion. There is also probably something to be gained from looking at the people Fifth was after before he died. Said analysis is going to happen in about 20 hours though, so don't expect to hear too much from me.

Also, @Orlok Tsubodai, I don't do role swaps, and I don't have any active PMs. Sorry I didn't see yours until after rollover.

[MetaTerminal]

So I had some responses written up for Fifth’s post, but since he died I can’t really post them. Bother. Suffice it to say that I agreed and disagreed with some of it.

I can’t say I find anything very suspicious regarding the lynch against me, although it would be nice if that didn’t stifle discussion. As usual I will do a read on the previous cycle before making a decision, but I will probably vote. It would also be nice if people responded to my arguments. Although Orlok has outlined a good case against me, it feels rather like people are overlooking my posts. Even if it doesn’t change your mind I would like people to consider what I have to say.

Edited November 12, 2018 by MetaTerminal
Comma splice responsibly, kids

[Nohadon]

Wow. Ok. It looks like Fifth is gone. I agree that I don't think it was the coinshot who did it. Any ideas? For now I'll be voting for Coop772 as he's been even more silent then me. I'll praise Elandera Because I'm pretty sure she's a townie.

[xinoehp512]

I haven't been as active here as I should be. Having not reread the thread, I don't really feel prepared to make a vote. Hopefully will before the end of the cycle, though.

I'm feeling a little suspicious of Orlok, but that might just be my uncertainty on how these sorts of things usually go down. He does raise valid points against Metaterminal, and it would be interesting to see which way he flips.

[Elandera]

Alright, I just went through all past posts, focusing on those who are still alive. I only briefly skimmed posts from people who are already dead. Since they're all villagers, there's only so much we can glean from them. 

First things first, we haven't heard from @Aonar Faileas, @Coop772, or @A Joe in the Bush since D1. We also haven't heard from @Young Bard since D2.

See chart in the spoiler tag for a ridiculously long summary of posts of living people so far.

Spoiler

	D1	N1	D2	N2	D3	N3
		CadCom Lynched, Fifth Praised	Snipexe and Devotary killed	Itiah Lynched	Elandera Attacked/Survived	Tied lynch, Elandera Praised
Xinoehp512	- Check-in - Doesn't like vote on CadCom for playstyle mix-up, but says it doesn't feel villager. Votes CadCom, praises Fifth		- Check-in, no vote
Jondesu	- Check-in	- Fell asleep through turnover	- Not much to read from D1; Fifth/Orlok debate usually seen between villagers, doesn't want to lynch anyone driving discussion; Neutral to village read on Steel, Neutral on Fura; Vote on Itiah because of weird vibe from suspicion on Fifth/Orlok with no vote; praise on Fifth		- Congratulations whoever protected Elandera; Questions ability to trust Elandera because of possible WGG - Refutes Rath's reasoning for Lurcher not likely on Elim team; doesn't think survival is inherently a clear, but mostly agrees with clearing Elandera - Says pewter burning rule makes WGG less likely	- No lynch means almost no information; Responds to "thanking the doctor" claims, says it's common for him
Elandera	- RP - Response to Wyrm, vote count, disagreement with current praise and vote stances. Poke vote on Jondesu, praise for Fifth - Responds to Fifth, justifies praise vote, indicates Jondesu vote was poke, removes votes - RP, Votes CadCom for same reasons as others, praises Fifth, vote count	- Feels manipulated by Fifth, optimistic about learning from CadCom's death - Defends lynch on CadCom, says it wasn't for playstyle change but seeming to obscure his point, slight village read on Orlok for strong push on CadCom	- Think's Snipexe's death was likely village coinshot, summarizes D1, suspicion on Shqueeves, MetaTerminal, Fifth; vote on Shqueeves, praise for Bard - Responds to Shqueeves, says vote was for RNG vote on Snipexe and Devotary's death after pointing out the same - Responds to Fifth, says analysis on him was gut feeling but nothing blatant; no suspicions for vote - Instruction for how to do color on mobile - RP, Suspicion on Itiah bandwagon, doesn't see full reason for it; Votes on Ark for second time joining bandwagon, praises Bard	- Points out soothed vote; asks about mechanics of rioting; Suggests possibilties of why Rath's vote was soothed; asks Orlok for Itiah lynch reasoning - Responds to Fura, says mis-claiming as a seeker would be suicide; Defends analysis on Rath vote manip, says one riot would have been enough to change results; Suggests possible roles of elims - Responds to Gancho's question about night voting	- RP, Admitting to being thug, doesn't know why she was attacked - Response to Orlok, saying the reason it was disingenuous was because of past Pewter roles; Says WGG is unlikely because of thug action mechanic to stay alive - Says she's busy with work and NaNoWriMo; tags players who haven't talked for a while - Slight suspicion of Orlok for not coming through with analysis; Vote Orlok, praise Araris - Response to Rath, points out Meta's likely reasoning	- Responds to Meta, says each game is different regarding tied lynches. Asks Orlok for explanation as well; promises analysis - Responds to Fura, says if elims are going to kill people, might as well be people not contributing
Araris Valerian	- Agreement with Fifth on new player aversion to D1 lynch - Vote Orlok, praise Fifth		- Check in, promises more substantial post later - Mild suspicion on Xino, Elandera but not enough for vote, wants to hear more from MetaTerminal, vote on Ark because that's where Snipexe's vote was, and praise for Rath; doesn't think we should lynch Fifth/Orlok for discussion sake - Responds to Rath, somewhat defending Fifth's suspicions; Votes on Fifth, praises Orlok, rescinding earlier opinion; Thinks Fifth's vote on Rath is strongly worded	- Says there's noting necessarily bad about praising an elim, says they're more likely to give something away because they have more incentive to vote - Considers praising less active player to encourage participation	- Soft clear on Elandera since she suggested elims might have thug during N2; Vote on Meta, suspicion on Meta and Ark for Meta removing vote once two others joined; Praise on Steeldancer - Says it woudn't be unusual for elims to have Lurger if there's a village coinshot	- Calls for coinshots and elims to kill inactives - Responds to Orlok, says his soft-clear of people should be based on how Meta flips; Says there's shouldn't be too much to look into with Meta/Elandera interractions, will look at past WGGs
Young Bard	- Doesn’t have time, agrees with Fifth, comments on Fura lynch, feel CadCom is village for Devotary/Orlok mixup, talk about use of Praise mechanic, vote on Gancho, praise CadCom	- Blue Text: school; Points out bandwagon on CadCom, suspicious of next largest target (Snipexe), disagrees with playstyle lynch, believes Fifth's and Orlok's votes were genuine, but suspicous of Xino, Elandera, MetaTerminal (leaves out Devotary?)	- Mentions CadCom lynch/meta of SE, discusses rules of Seeker and Roleless Noble scans and possibilites of claiming, doesn't think CadCom lynch was effort to save Orlok; pokevote on Steel, praise on Araris; RP - Asks Gancho to elaborate; Vote on Itiah asking Coinshot and Seeker to claim; Says he disagrees that one of Orlok or Fifth has to be elim; Praises Fifth; Thinks Rath's actions seemed like attempt at genuine analysis; Says votes on Ark are weak
Gancho Libre	- Check-in Post - Responding to Bard poke vote, vote in Itiah, praise Fifth, no reason given - Vote count, considers voting on Orlok because people say he's dangerous		- Apology for inactivity, Vote on Ark for suspicious tone, praise on Fifth - Explains suspicion on Itah for statement of removing vote if given evidence against claim	- Check-in, asks about voting at night	- Says they'll be inactive for a few days; Votes on Ark for taking the "i'm new" approach; Praises Meta
Orlok Tsubodai	- Vote on Fura for discourage early votes, praise Araris - RP, mild suspicion of Fifth and questions CadCom’s vote on Joe - Vote on CadCom for analysis seeming contrived, praise on Fifth - Unhappy with CadCom response of trying to make it sound contrived, urges people to vote on him	- Defends lynch on CadCom, saying discouraging such styles is better for being able to analyse, defends policy lynch, slight suspicion of FIfth for repetition against policy lynch because it seems like an effort to appear good	- Doesn't have time, votes on Fifth, requesting expansion of criticism of policy lynch, praises Snipexe to troll Wyrm - Praises Aonar after Wyrm fixes rules - Gets into back and forth discussion over policy lynching; apologises for CadCom vote because he was busy and recognizes he didn't consider everything about why CadCom might change style, but points out the difference between Chaotic players and directly admitting to obscuring alignment; says without being able to analyse, fun takes a hit anyways - Responds to Fifth again, casts mild suspicion on him - Says he expand on suspicion of Fifth after Midterms, point one one part that makes him feel Fifth is sending village on goose chases - Wants more people to contribute to discussion, saying if neither Fifth or himself are eveil, the discussion adds little to village - Vote on Itiah, praise on Aonar, says reason to come		- RP, thoughts to come - Says Elandera's admittance to being thug was disingenuous; analysis to come - Gut read on Meta followed by vote; praise on Elandera	- Says they've been busy; Suspicious of MetaTerminal, says call for Orlok's lynch was contrived and fabricated; Responds to request for Itiah lynch clarification, says it was advice regarding tineyes - Suspicion on Meta and Rath being evil, requests protection - Says Fifth is likely villager, thinks Meta and elims pushed to keep him from being praised; Analysis of Meta and Elandera; Ending with major suspicions on Meta, soft clear on Steel and Araris, unsure if Meta is teammates with Elandera or it's pocketing attempt; wants more opinon on Elandera; Thinks Meta and Rath are teammates;
Steeldancer	- Check-in, busy testing, don't empower Orlok - Question's CadCom's random vote for Devotary - Questions giving Orlok voting power, poke vote on Nohadon, Praise for Aonar - Retracts votes, Blue Text: sick	- Blue Text: apology for not voting because of school; Says they'll give response later	- Blue Text: School - Blue Text: School; Thinks there was elim involvement in CadCom lynch; doesn't read much allignment into Orlok/Fifth discussion; thinks Orlok could still be either village or elim; Brief comments on Shqueeves being typically quiet, Araris possibly being more aggressive than normal, Fura being too new to really know; Vote on Rathmaskal for most random vote, praise on Bard - Doesn't consider Rath's actions suspicious, Suspicious of MetaTerminal for last post, praise on Bard again - Responds to MetaTerminal, says post feels like fake analysis, mostly gut read	- Asks what happened to vote	- Thought he posted something earlier about attack not likely being coinshot, says they're still busy	- Frustrated by tied lynch
Rathmaskal	- RP		- RP, most concerned about later votes on CadCom, pointing out Xino and Elandera directly, thinks elims are fine with Orlok/Fifth debate since it doesn't seem to be going anywhere, vote on Xino, praise on Itiah - Response to Fifth, concerned still about Xino and Elandera for "weak" exuses for CadCom vote - Explanation for elim among D1 vote, saying that is also one of the groups that may provide more information		- Thug or Lurcher possible reasons for Elandera survival; If thug, nothing to be learned about alignment; if Lurcher, less likely for it to be on elim team; Soft clear on Elandera - Softer clear on Elandera in response to Jondesu - Analysis of Elandera; Suggests possible reasons for attack - RP; Asks why Nohadon voted on Rath; Votes on Xino for gut read for showing up only sporadically; Praies Aonar to get him to participate; vote count and pings players to vote - Asks Meta to explain vote (misunderstood reasoning) - Reponds to Meta, saying they should reconsider, vote count - Votes Meta for self preservation, praises Elandera so praise isn't manipulated - Votes Xino/Praises Elandera after Ninja'ing Meta	- RP, Asks about tineye
Coop772	- Check-in - Unsure about Snipexe lynch, and praising Orlok
Shqueeves	- Check-in, agreeds with Steel, RNG vote on Snipexe, praise Joe		- Asks Elandera for more explanation of vote		- Gut-read on Ela, but unable to find source, will look over posts again - Asks Fifth what "thanking the doctor" feel is - Says Fifth's logic makes sense for voting on Jondesu
Furamirionind	- Joke vote on Fifth, praise Orlok - RP, says they're novice and was being ironic with original vote, retracts votes	- RP	- Blue text: not a lot of time; Doesn't think Snipexe's death was strange because of what Bard said N1 - Says Coinshot should wait for seeker to contact them; encourages seeker to find way of sharing results of scans, asks Araris why they changed their mind so suddenly, vote count	- Uncomfortable with Itiah lynch; talks about Seeker mechanics, suggesting seeker reach out to roled villager they've scanned; agrees we should lynch seeker after they have released enough results; Wants to hear more from Araris about their switched opinon about Fifth/Orlok; Thinks votes on Rath were counter-intutive; Says it would have taken several vote manipulations for Rath to have been lynched - Response to Araris, says if it doesn't matter if it's village or spiked who becomes praised then why not pick someone at random; Says Orlok would be worse to pick because he'd likely be more thoughtful and pick someone without giving away much info		- Wants to hear more from Orlok; Concerned about Ark's vote on Elandera and general voting and posting habits in the past - Responds to Araris, asking if he's wanting elims to kill more people - Responds to Elandera, says "if" is good
Aonar Faileas	- Thanks Steel, votes on Orlok for lynch and praise as joke, then vote on Orlok, praise Bard, wonders why people are so concerned about praise saying at the beginning it doesn't matter as much as it will later
A Joe in the Bush	- RP, Vote on Fura, praise Jondesu - RP
Ark1002	- Vote Snipexe, praise Orlok - Responds to Fifth and defends vote on Snipexe as gut vote, says he was agreeing with Fifth's logic vof praise on Orlok	- RP	- Praises Orlok because they want to see what he'd do with influence (doens't count because it doesn't have lynch vote) - Vote on Itiah, praise on Orlok, says Itiah seems suspicious because he says he doesn't have time to vote but gives reasons for other people to vote; RP		- Responds to Araris, says they've never been an elim; Votes on Meta for the same reason as Araris, but says it was way to make Ark look suspicious - Retracts vote on Meta after Meta responded, but without reason; Votes on Elandera because no one is suspicious of her surviving an attack, praises Jondesu
Nohadon	- Doesn’t want to vote without information, RP	- Wants to protect influenctial, think CadCom lynch was random bandwagon, CadCom didn't seem suspicious, RP			- Asks if there is only one of each role; Votes on Rath, praises Elandera
MetaTerminal	- RP, excitement for first LG, encourages D1 lynch, urges care with Praise - Poke vote on Xino, praise on Fifth - Holds poke-vote until Xino can vote, RP - Agrees with Fifth and Devotary's vote on CadCom, votes CadCom, praises Fifth	- RP	- Responds to question saying Orlok opinon was reaction to granting power to experienced player, says he shouldn't have reacted like that; Defends CadCom vote saying it was following more experienced players; vote count - Doesn't think CadCom lynch was suspicious because Fifth and Devotary were strongly encouraging it, considered them experienced analysts; thinks elims would have just let the lynch happen since the next choice was also village; wants to keep eye on Fifth/Orlok; Vote on Ark, praise on Elandera - Inexperienced vibe from Ark, thinks Fifth's votes are strangely worded and doesn't like him voting on Rath for focusing on way to detect elims. Votes on Fifth, praises Elandera - Asks Steel for explanation of vote		- Responds to Araris, saying he planned to remove Ark vote anyway; Can't think of reason for Ela being attacked; soft clear for Ela - Responds to Ark, saying he was arguing against him being elim - Responds to Ark, breaks down what may have happened with Ela attack and why people are clearing her - Vote on Fifth for vote swinging away from him and Rath; Praises Rath; EDITS POST: Votes on Rath for the same reason as above and self-preservation, praises Coop as poke - Removes Rath vote, votes on Orlok because Itiah vote reasoning seemed flimsy; awkward ninja with rath	- Thought tied lynches were decided by cointoss; Pings Orlok for explanation/analysis; Encourages coinshot to make up for tie - Responds to Orlok, says he wasn't the first choice for lynch, but he deemed it possible that Orlok was elim - Responds to Orlok; explains new player reasoning for contradictory statements

Now for what I think of all of that.

Jondesu/Rathmaskal

After reviewing everything, I have no idea where my gut read on Jondesu came from. There's nothing I found that pinged my elim-meter. Most of their post seem village to me.

The end of the last Day Turn between Rath and Meta seemed like honest self-preservation moves. That's something I've seen in both elims and villagers, so I'm not certain I'm fine with a vote on them simply for that. That being said, some of Meta's other actions are a bit odd, though they could easily be due to inexperience.

I'm also a bit suspicious of Araris. In past games with him when he's a villager, he tended to be more aggressive about voting. However, I can understand why that may have changed, since that also led to his early lynch. A lot.

I'm still pretty confident in Young Bard being village, as well as Furamirionind.

My largest suspicion is actually on Orlok at the moment. He has been a main driving force behind most of our mis-lynches. I feel like he's watching for and jumping on every single possible mistake by players as a reason to lynch them. A lot of the players are following, because it just makes sense to follow someone with a lot of experience. Some of the other posts feel like subtle attempts to divert attention in other directions.

Orlok/Jondesu 

Edited November 12, 2018 by Elandera

[Rathmaskal]

So, with Fifth dead now, my best conspiracy theory is shot down - I had a crazy "Orlok and Fifth are dominating the conversation and arguing with each other all the time as elim team to both keep the game going as they want but also distance from each other" theory going.  (It actually wasn't that crazy...but it was a stretch at least)

Now, today is tough.  No matter what I do, I get the feeling that Orlok is going to jump on it as additional 'proof' that I'm an elim if this lynch stands and Meta flips elim.  If I vote for Meta now, it's because I decided to start distancing.  If I don't vote for him, it's because I'm trying to save him.

I'm still not clearing Xino either...the continued "I haven't read enough to vote" posts are always a great way to deflect suspicion for a while as people grasp at straws for reasons to lynch other people.  However, it doesn't look like anyone is taking me seriously on that one...  So, I'm not sure who I'm going to vote on right now...  I'll definitely follow up before the end of the cycle.

[Araris Valerian]

@Elandera I would be more aggressive with votes, it's just that I've been really busy IRL while this game has been going on. My lack of enthusiasm has nothing to do with either my alignment (I'm like that even as an elim) or my change in playstyle.

I think that Ark is the person I'd like to hear from the most. He's seems to have accumulated a decent number of votes throughout the game without ever really being under the threat of being lynched.

[Elandera]

30 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said:

I would be more aggressive with votes, it's just that I've been really busy IRL while this game has been going on. My lack of enthusiasm has nothing to do with either my alignment (I'm like that even as an elim) or my change in playstyle.

That makes sense. Content-wise, there wasn't anything that really stuck out to me as possible elim. It seems to be a busy time for a lot of people (myself included, since I should be writing for NaNoWriMo instead of being on here )

[Furamirionind]

On 11/11/2018 at 5:09 PM, MetaTerminal said:

Although Orlok has outlined a good case against me, it feels rather like people are overlooking my posts. Even if it doesn’t change your mind I would like people to consider what I have to say.

Sorry Meta, I think you are right about me (and probably some others) overlooking your own defences. 

Reading back on Orloks and Meta's responses, I think some things, like the voting on bandwagon, makes complete sense for a new player to do.  Even looking at myself this cycle, my first reaction was to follow Orlok, and praise him due to the analysis.

However, after rereading this, I think it reads much more like Orlok took someone suspicious, and just took everything they said and tried to present it in a light to make Meta look as guilty as possible, whether or not it was justified.

I think at this point Meta's death will tell us much about Orlok, and possibly Steel and Araris, though they have been quiet about Meta since Orlok's post.

I am changing my praise vote to Araris instead of Orlok, because I too am extremely curious about what Ark has to say.  Ark got on this cycle, but I have not seen them respond to my comment on them yet.

MetaTerminal/Orlok

MetaTerminal/Araris

I will try to make sure the colors are correct when on a computer next.

Edited November 13, 2018 by Furamirionind
fixed the colors

[+Ark1002]

Sorry, I forgot, what does the blue vote do again?

[Furamirionind]

3 minutes ago, Badadah said:

Sorry, I forgot, what does the blue vote do again?

Blue is praise.  The player with the most praise votes has their vote count as 2 votes during the next day.

[+Ark1002]

I thought that was purple...

[Elandera]

1 minute ago, Furamirionind said:

Blue is praise.  The player with the most praise votes has their vote count as 2 votes during the next day.

Blue is removal of a Praise vote. Purple is the praise. 

If you're ever confused, just check out the rules page from sign ups.

[Furamirionind]

4 minutes ago, Badadah said:

I thought that was purple...

Umm... They look the same to me.

There are 2 blue/purple/something colors.  One of them removes a vote, the other creates one.

(ninja'd Elandera) Oops, my bad. :/

Edited November 13, 2018 by Furamirionind

[+Ark1002]

Thanks! I was hoping it would do something, so I could add another vote.

[Orlok Tsubodai]

Before responding to anything, I think a vote count would be helpful:

Lynch:

Metaterminal: Orlok, Furamirionind, Steeldancer, Badadah (4)

Coop772: Nohadon (1)

Orlok: Elandera, Elandera (2)

Praise:

Araris: Orlok, Steeldancer, Badadah, Furamironind (4)

Elandera: Nohadon (1)

Jondesu: Elandera, Elandera (2)

12 hours ago, Elandera said:

Alright, I just went through all past posts, focusing on those who are still alive. I only briefly skimmed posts from people who are already dead. Since they're all villagers, there's only so much we can glean from them. 

First things first, we haven't heard from @Aonar Faileas, @Coop772, or @A Joe in the Bush since D1. We also haven't heard from @Young Bard since D2.

See chart in the spoiler tag for a ridiculously long summary of posts of living people so far.

  Reveal hidden contents

	D1	N1	D2	N2	D3	N3
		CadCom Lynched, Fifth Praised	Snipexe and Devotary killed	Itiah Lynched	Elandera Attacked/Survived	Tied lynch, Elandera Praised
Xinoehp512	- Check-in - Doesn't like vote on CadCom for playstyle mix-up, but says it doesn't feel villager. Votes CadCom, praises Fifth		- Check-in, no vote
Jondesu	- Check-in	- Fell asleep through turnover	- Not much to read from D1; Fifth/Orlok debate usually seen between villagers, doesn't want to lynch anyone driving discussion; Neutral to village read on Steel, Neutral on Fura; Vote on Itiah because of weird vibe from suspicion on Fifth/Orlok with no vote; praise on Fifth		- Congratulations whoever protected Elandera; Questions ability to trust Elandera because of possible WGG - Refutes Rath's reasoning for Lurcher not likely on Elim team; doesn't think survival is inherently a clear, but mostly agrees with clearing Elandera - Says pewter burning rule makes WGG less likely	- No lynch means almost no information; Responds to "thanking the doctor" claims, says it's common for him
Elandera	- RP - Response to Wyrm, vote count, disagreement with current praise and vote stances. Poke vote on Jondesu, praise for Fifth - Responds to Fifth, justifies praise vote, indicates Jondesu vote was poke, removes votes - RP, Votes CadCom for same reasons as others, praises Fifth, vote count	- Feels manipulated by Fifth, optimistic about learning from CadCom's death - Defends lynch on CadCom, says it wasn't for playstyle change but seeming to obscure his point, slight village read on Orlok for strong push on CadCom	- Think's Snipexe's death was likely village coinshot, summarizes D1, suspicion on Shqueeves, MetaTerminal, Fifth; vote on Shqueeves, praise for Bard - Responds to Shqueeves, says vote was for RNG vote on Snipexe and Devotary's death after pointing out the same - Responds to Fifth, says analysis on him was gut feeling but nothing blatant; no suspicions for vote - Instruction for how to do color on mobile - RP, Suspicion on Itiah bandwagon, doesn't see full reason for it; Votes on Ark for second time joining bandwagon, praises Bard	- Points out soothed vote; asks about mechanics of rioting; Suggests possibilties of why Rath's vote was soothed; asks Orlok for Itiah lynch reasoning - Responds to Fura, says mis-claiming as a seeker would be suicide; Defends analysis on Rath vote manip, says one riot would have been enough to change results; Suggests possible roles of elims - Responds to Gancho's question about night voting	- RP, Admitting to being thug, doesn't know why she was attacked - Response to Orlok, saying the reason it was disingenuous was because of past Pewter roles; Says WGG is unlikely because of thug action mechanic to stay alive - Says she's busy with work and NaNoWriMo; tags players who haven't talked for a while - Slight suspicion of Orlok for not coming through with analysis; Vote Orlok, praise Araris - Response to Rath, points out Meta's likely reasoning	- Responds to Meta, says each game is different regarding tied lynches. Asks Orlok for explanation as well; promises analysis - Responds to Fura, says if elims are going to kill people, might as well be people not contributing
Araris Valerian	- Agreement with Fifth on new player aversion to D1 lynch - Vote Orlok, praise Fifth		- Check in, promises more substantial post later - Mild suspicion on Xino, Elandera but not enough for vote, wants to hear more from MetaTerminal, vote on Ark because that's where Snipexe's vote was, and praise for Rath; doesn't think we should lynch Fifth/Orlok for discussion sake - Responds to Rath, somewhat defending Fifth's suspicions; Votes on Fifth, praises Orlok, rescinding earlier opinion; Thinks Fifth's vote on Rath is strongly worded	- Says there's noting necessarily bad about praising an elim, says they're more likely to give something away because they have more incentive to vote - Considers praising less active player to encourage participation	- Soft clear on Elandera since she suggested elims might have thug during N2; Vote on Meta, suspicion on Meta and Ark for Meta removing vote once two others joined; Praise on Steeldancer - Says it woudn't be unusual for elims to have Lurger if there's a village coinshot	- Calls for coinshots and elims to kill inactives - Responds to Orlok, says his soft-clear of people should be based on how Meta flips; Says there's shouldn't be too much to look into with Meta/Elandera interractions, will look at past WGGs
Young Bard	- Doesn’t have time, agrees with Fifth, comments on Fura lynch, feel CadCom is village for Devotary/Orlok mixup, talk about use of Praise mechanic, vote on Gancho, praise CadCom	- Blue Text: school; Points out bandwagon on CadCom, suspicious of next largest target (Snipexe), disagrees with playstyle lynch, believes Fifth's and Orlok's votes were genuine, but suspicous of Xino, Elandera, MetaTerminal (leaves out Devotary?)	- Mentions CadCom lynch/meta of SE, discusses rules of Seeker and Roleless Noble scans and possibilites of claiming, doesn't think CadCom lynch was effort to save Orlok; pokevote on Steel, praise on Araris; RP - Asks Gancho to elaborate; Vote on Itiah asking Coinshot and Seeker to claim; Says he disagrees that one of Orlok or Fifth has to be elim; Praises Fifth; Thinks Rath's actions seemed like attempt at genuine analysis; Says votes on Ark are weak
Gancho Libre	- Check-in Post - Responding to Bard poke vote, vote in Itiah, praise Fifth, no reason given - Vote count, considers voting on Orlok because people say he's dangerous		- Apology for inactivity, Vote on Ark for suspicious tone, praise on Fifth - Explains suspicion on Itah for statement of removing vote if given evidence against claim	- Check-in, asks about voting at night	- Says they'll be inactive for a few days; Votes on Ark for taking the "i'm new" approach; Praises Meta
Orlok Tsubodai	- Vote on Fura for discourage early votes, praise Araris - RP, mild suspicion of Fifth and questions CadCom’s vote on Joe - Vote on CadCom for analysis seeming contrived, praise on Fifth - Unhappy with CadCom response of trying to make it sound contrived, urges people to vote on him	- Defends lynch on CadCom, saying discouraging such styles is better for being able to analyse, defends policy lynch, slight suspicion of FIfth for repetition against policy lynch because it seems like an effort to appear good	- Doesn't have time, votes on Fifth, requesting expansion of criticism of policy lynch, praises Snipexe to troll Wyrm - Praises Aonar after Wyrm fixes rules - Gets into back and forth discussion over policy lynching; apologises for CadCom vote because he was busy and recognizes he didn't consider everything about why CadCom might change style, but points out the difference between Chaotic players and directly admitting to obscuring alignment; says without being able to analyse, fun takes a hit anyways - Responds to Fifth again, casts mild suspicion on him - Says he expand on suspicion of Fifth after Midterms, point one one part that makes him feel Fifth is sending village on goose chases - Wants more people to contribute to discussion, saying if neither Fifth or himself are eveil, the discussion adds little to village - Vote on Itiah, praise on Aonar, says reason to come		- RP, thoughts to come - Says Elandera's admittance to being thug was disingenuous; analysis to come - Gut read on Meta followed by vote; praise on Elandera	- Says they've been busy; Suspicious of MetaTerminal, says call for Orlok's lynch was contrived and fabricated; Responds to request for Itiah lynch clarification, says it was advice regarding tineyes - Suspicion on Meta and Rath being evil, requests protection - Says Fifth is likely villager, thinks Meta and elims pushed to keep him from being praised; Analysis of Meta and Elandera; Ending with major suspicions on Meta, soft clear on Steel and Araris, unsure if Meta is teammates with Elandera or it's pocketing attempt; wants more opinon on Elandera; Thinks Meta and Rath are teammates;
Steeldancer	- Check-in, busy testing, don't empower Orlok - Question's CadCom's random vote for Devotary - Questions giving Orlok voting power, poke vote on Nohadon, Praise for Aonar - Retracts votes, Blue Text: sick	- Blue Text: apology for not voting because of school; Says they'll give response later	- Blue Text: School - Blue Text: School; Thinks there was elim involvement in CadCom lynch; doesn't read much allignment into Orlok/Fifth discussion; thinks Orlok could still be either village or elim; Brief comments on Shqueeves being typically quiet, Araris possibly being more aggressive than normal, Fura being too new to really know; Vote on Rathmaskal for most random vote, praise on Bard - Doesn't consider Rath's actions suspicious, Suspicious of MetaTerminal for last post, praise on Bard again - Responds to MetaTerminal, says post feels like fake analysis, mostly gut read	- Asks what happened to vote	- Thought he posted something earlier about attack not likely being coinshot, says they're still busy	- Frustrated by tied lynch
Rathmaskal	- RP		- RP, most concerned about later votes on CadCom, pointing out Xino and Elandera directly, thinks elims are fine with Orlok/Fifth debate since it doesn't seem to be going anywhere, vote on Xino, praise on Itiah - Response to Fifth, concerned still about Xino and Elandera for "weak" exuses for CadCom vote - Explanation for elim among D1 vote, saying that is also one of the groups that may provide more information		- Thug or Lurcher possible reasons for Elandera survival; If thug, nothing to be learned about alignment; if Lurcher, less likely for it to be on elim team; Soft clear on Elandera - Softer clear on Elandera in response to Jondesu - Analysis of Elandera; Suggests possible reasons for attack - RP; Asks why Nohadon voted on Rath; Votes on Xino for gut read for showing up only sporadically; Praies Aonar to get him to participate; vote count and pings players to vote - Asks Meta to explain vote (misunderstood reasoning) - Reponds to Meta, saying they should reconsider, vote count - Votes Meta for self preservation, praises Elandera so praise isn't manipulated - Votes Xino/Praises Elandera after Ninja'ing Meta	- RP, Asks about tineye
Coop772	- Check-in - Unsure about Snipexe lynch, and praising Orlok
Shqueeves	- Check-in, agreeds with Steel, RNG vote on Snipexe, praise Joe		- Asks Elandera for more explanation of vote		- Gut-read on Ela, but unable to find source, will look over posts again - Asks Fifth what "thanking the doctor" feel is - Says Fifth's logic makes sense for voting on Jondesu
Furamirionind	- Joke vote on Fifth, praise Orlok - RP, says they're novice and was being ironic with original vote, retracts votes	- RP	- Blue text: not a lot of time; Doesn't think Snipexe's death was strange because of what Bard said N1 - Says Coinshot should wait for seeker to contact them; encourages seeker to find way of sharing results of scans, asks Araris why they changed their mind so suddenly, vote count	- Uncomfortable with Itiah lynch; talks about Seeker mechanics, suggesting seeker reach out to roled villager they've scanned; agrees we should lynch seeker after they have released enough results; Wants to hear more from Araris about their switched opinon about Fifth/Orlok; Thinks votes on Rath were counter-intutive; Says it would have taken several vote manipulations for Rath to have been lynched - Response to Araris, says if it doesn't matter if it's village or spiked who becomes praised then why not pick someone at random; Says Orlok would be worse to pick because he'd likely be more thoughtful and pick someone without giving away much info		- Wants to hear more from Orlok; Concerned about Ark's vote on Elandera and general voting and posting habits in the past - Responds to Araris, asking if he's wanting elims to kill more people - Responds to Elandera, says "if" is good
Aonar Faileas	- Thanks Steel, votes on Orlok for lynch and praise as joke, then vote on Orlok, praise Bard, wonders why people are so concerned about praise saying at the beginning it doesn't matter as much as it will later
A Joe in the Bush	- RP, Vote on Fura, praise Jondesu - RP
Ark1002	- Vote Snipexe, praise Orlok - Responds to Fifth and defends vote on Snipexe as gut vote, says he was agreeing with Fifth's logic vof praise on Orlok	- RP	- Praises Orlok because they want to see what he'd do with influence (doens't count because it doesn't have lynch vote) - Vote on Itiah, praise on Orlok, says Itiah seems suspicious because he says he doesn't have time to vote but gives reasons for other people to vote; RP		- Responds to Araris, says they've never been an elim; Votes on Meta for the same reason as Araris, but says it was way to make Ark look suspicious - Retracts vote on Meta after Meta responded, but without reason; Votes on Elandera because no one is suspicious of her surviving an attack, praises Jondesu
Nohadon	- Doesn’t want to vote without information, RP	- Wants to protect influenctial, think CadCom lynch was random bandwagon, CadCom didn't seem suspicious, RP			- Asks if there is only one of each role; Votes on Rath, praises Elandera
MetaTerminal	- RP, excitement for first LG, encourages D1 lynch, urges care with Praise - Poke vote on Xino, praise on Fifth - Holds poke-vote until Xino can vote, RP - Agrees with Fifth and Devotary's vote on CadCom, votes CadCom, praises Fifth	- RP	- Responds to question saying Orlok opinon was reaction to granting power to experienced player, says he shouldn't have reacted like that; Defends CadCom vote saying it was following more experienced players; vote count - Doesn't think CadCom lynch was suspicious because Fifth and Devotary were strongly encouraging it, considered them experienced analysts; thinks elims would have just let the lynch happen since the next choice was also village; wants to keep eye on Fifth/Orlok; Vote on Ark, praise on Elandera - Inexperienced vibe from Ark, thinks Fifth's votes are strangely worded and doesn't like him voting on Rath for focusing on way to detect elims. Votes on Fifth, praises Elandera - Asks Steel for explanation of vote		- Responds to Araris, saying he planned to remove Ark vote anyway; Can't think of reason for Ela being attacked; soft clear for Ela - Responds to Ark, saying he was arguing against him being elim - Responds to Ark, breaks down what may have happened with Ela attack and why people are clearing her - Vote on Fifth for vote swinging away from him and Rath; Praises Rath; EDITS POST: Votes on Rath for the same reason as above and self-preservation, praises Coop as poke - Removes Rath vote, votes on Orlok because Itiah vote reasoning seemed flimsy; awkward ninja with rath	- Thought tied lynches were decided by cointoss; Pings Orlok for explanation/analysis; Encourages coinshot to make up for tie - Responds to Orlok, says he wasn't the first choice for lynch, but he deemed it possible that Orlok was elim - Responds to Orlok; explains new player reasoning for contradictory statements

Now for what I think of all of that.

Jondesu/Rathmaskal

After reviewing everything, I have no idea where my gut read on Jondesu came from. There's nothing I found that pinged my elim-meter. Most of their post seem village to me.

The end of the last Day Turn between Rath and Meta seemed like honest self-preservation moves. That's something I've seen in both elims and villagers, so I'm not certain I'm fine with a vote on them simply for that. That being said, some of Meta's other actions are a bit odd, though they could easily be due to inexperience.

I'm also a bit suspicious of Araris. In past games with him when he's a villager, he tended to be more aggressive about voting. However, I can understand why that may have changed, since that also led to his early lynch. A lot.

I'm still pretty confident in Young Bard being village, as well as Furamirionind.

My largest suspicion is actually on Orlok at the moment. He has been a main driving force behind most of our mis-lynches. I feel like he's watching for and jumping on every single possible mistake by players as a reason to lynch them. A lot of the players are following, because it just makes sense to follow someone with a lot of experience. Some of the other posts feel like subtle attempts to divert attention in other directions.

Orlok/Jondesu 

Elandera, it's great to see such a useful collation of activity throughout the game. I'll look into that when I have a bit more time.

For now, though, I'd like to address the two bolded sentences.

The first is relatively easy to address. I take full responsibility for the Cadmium mislynch. I stand largely by my rationale for it, and think as a D1 lynch it made a great deal of sense, but recognise the lynch was as a result of my arguing for it. The only other lynch in the game, however, I voted on without providing justification at the time, such was thhe rush I was in. I think anyone would be hard pressed to call that the "main driving force" behind the lynch. 

In totality, then, the statement "He has been a main driving force behind most of our mis-lynches" is misleading. I drive one lynch, and there have only been two. It seems hyperbole from every angle of interpretation. I'd like to hear why you chose to use that language.

The second sentence is much more concerning to me, and one I'll treat at face value now, as I'd consider it a hit considerably below the belt if it were made disingenuously. Looking at it, then, as a genuine interpretation of how I've played, I'm actually deeply saddened. I play SE to have fun, and to take part in a community in which everyone else is having fun. I analyse posts and try to drive conversation because I think conversation is integral to people having fun, and hope that my analysis engages people. If it challenges eliminators, that's wonderful - I've definitely had the most fun when evil when I'm having to defend myself, rather than coasting through. To hear that I'm seen as not contributing to fun, but instead am seen as overly critical, and someone who will "jump on any mistake" has left me really quite shaken. I've got a lot out of this community over the last three and a half years, and very much don't want to undermine that community.

If people really do think I hurt the community with how I play, then I will take a step back from these games. I have tried to play this game in a more laidback manner than usual, with only one really susbtantial analysis post so far, and more RP than I've done in any game before, but apologise to everyone playing if they do feel like I've been harmful to the game. I'm genuinely sorry.

[Elandera]

3 hours ago, Orlok Tsubodai said:

The second sentence is much more concerning to me, and one I'll treat at face value now, as I'd consider it a hit considerably below the belt if it were made disingenuously. Looking at it, then, as a genuine interpretation of how I've played, I'm actually deeply saddened. I play SE to have fun, and to take part in a community in which everyone else is having fun. I analyse posts and try to drive conversation because I think conversation is integral to people having fun, and hope that my analysis engages people. If it challenges eliminators, that's wonderful - I've definitely had the most fun when evil when I'm having to defend myself, rather than coasting through. To hear that I'm seen as not contributing to fun, but instead am seen as overly critical, and someone who will "jump on any mistake" has left me really quite shaken. I've got a lot out of this community over the last three and a half years, and very much don't want to undermine that community.

If people really do think I hurt the community with how I play, then I will take a step back from these games. I have tried to play this game in a more laidback manner than usual, with only one really susbtantial analysis post so far, and more RP than I've done in any game before, but apologise to everyone playing if they do feel like I've been harmful to the game. I'm genuinely sorry.

Oh, no. That's not what I meant at all. What you do is still in line with making SE fun to play. It was bad phrasing on my part, due to having started to develop a really bad headache after spending several hours going through old posts.

Actually, looking back on a lot of the post, it was poorly phrased in general. For that, I apologise sincerely. Let me try to get it right this time.

The first part I quoted is, in hindsight, a reasonable strategy for even village. You, after all, we're the one who caught me on D1 of being elim during MR30, I believe. It was because of a mistake I made, and you were fully justified in taking advantage of it. Our whole goal is to find those mistakes that could help us identify an elim.

However, I also think that is a good elim strategy for someone as skilled as yourself. As I'll explain below, despite warnings about your ability to hide as an elim, people have a strange tendency to trust you and your opinion. While most elims take a back seat with lynches, I have a feeling you wouldn't play that way. I believe you'd be an elim who would keep your same bold style, and because of your experience, find justifiable mistakes to use to lynch people. I've never played a game with you as elim before, so it's just a guess. 

3 hours ago, Orlok Tsubodai said:

The only other lynch in the game, however, I voted on without providing justification at the time, such was thhe rush I was in. I think anyone would be hard pressed to call that the "main driving force" behind the lynch. 

What I meant by driving force did include the Itiah lynch, not because you pushed it in the same way as the CadCom lynch. It was because other players, mostly new players from what I noticed, are seeming to just follow your lead. That is a great thing, if you're village. 

I guess most of my suspicion comes from not you, but how others are responding to you. How MetaTerminal flips will play a big part in if I hold you as a possible elim or not. 

Because of that, I don't want vote manipulation to cause problems. I'll wait until he flips before I push further.

Orlok/Jondesu

MetaTerminal/Jondesu

Again, I am very sorry for my poor phrasing. I hope this explains my thinking a little better. Even when I did get lynched D1 as elim because of you, I still had a blast. Please don't take what I said as indication of a harmful play style.