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Aluminum Spren Prison

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We know that an Aluminum bottle could keep shardpool waters Invested, and that an aluminum lined pouch would prevent one from drawing stormlight from spheres inside it.  And we've been told that the Perfect Gems can trap an Unmade because their crystalline perfection keeps it from leaking Stormlight in the usual way. 

 

Soooo...could you permanently trap an Unmade just as well in a lesser gem by going through the normal Lure&Trap process and then simply encasing the gem in aluminum? "Simply" being a relative term I understand, but theoretically it should work, yes?

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Bring forth the holy roll of Reynold's Wrap, known to bind any creature voidish or mortal!

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1 minute ago, Subvisual Haze said:

Bring forth the holy roll of Reynold's Wrap, known to bind any creature voidish or mortal!

Nice!

I could see it requiring a perfect seal, meaning some sort of a molten pour or casting instead of a creased wrap. 

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It seems like it would work, in theory.  The lure would be the hard part.  IIRC, the perfectness of the gem was a big factor in getting Nergaoul in the gem.

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2 hours ago, Quantus said:

Nice!

I could see it requiring a perfect seal, meaning some sort of a molten pour or casting instead of a creased wrap. 

I suppose it'll depend which way Brandon chooses to write it.  I could see him integrating an idea like a Faraday Cage though - where a metal mesh is usually enough.

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2 hours ago, Lidolas said:

It seems like it would work, in theory.  The lure would be the hard part.  IIRC, the perfectness of the gem was a big factor in getting Nergaoul in the gem.

I was under the impression that Dalinar himself was the only Bait component, that he coaxed the UnMade into the Gem given their past history/association and that Nergaoul obeyed out of a desire to please Dalinar.

1 minute ago, Subvisual Haze said:

I suppose it'll depend which way Brandon chooses to write it.  I could see him integrating an idea like a Faraday Cage though - where a metal mesh is usually enough.

Makes sense.  In WOB's relating to Aluminum shielding he's mentioned that thickness will often play a role which would lead me to think it would need to be continuous.  Other WOB's about aluminum, though, definitely describe proximity effects, which is what it would take for Faraday Cage style things to work.  In the case of trapping a spren, or especially an Unmade that normally require Perfect Gems, I think the additional requirements would come from the fact that it would have to confound and foil an active intelligence (more or less, with the UnMade) that would be actively seeking avenues of escape. 

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I think Dalinar as a Bondsmith is able to bind the Unmade in the sphere. He did draw the Thrill in but I don't think just anyone with a strong connection to the thrill could do it. Still Aluminum would be potent if the unmade could not physically break the prison. The crystals used for stormlight capture could all be like Corundum aka an aluminum oxide crystalline lattice (sapphire, ruby). perhap the perfect gems have pure aluminum in a set pattern. Or maybe we can't go quite that deep into chemistry for answers.

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Diamonds do not contain any aluminum, and they hold stormlight the same as any other gem.

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A spren is a bit of investiture that gained sentience from being around people, so in theory it's possible, with the blocking powers of aluminium.

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Spren are fragments of the powers of creation that have since then gained sentience through the influence of sapient beings on Roshar.

 

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18 hours ago, Quantus said:

Nice!

I could see it requiring a perfect seal, meaning some sort of a molten pour or casting instead of a creased wrap. 

I was thinking that maybe a Willshaper would be able to do it (assuming they can shape metals at will which is pure hypothesis at this point) but then I thought, surgebinding probably wouldn't work on Aluminum anyway.

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8 minutes ago, insert_anagram_here said:

I was thinking that maybe a Willshaper would be able to do it (assuming they can shape metals at will which is pure hypothesis at this point) but then I thought, surgebinding probably wouldn't work on Aluminum anyway.

I like the idea that Willshapers can physically mold things, but as you say, Aluminum is weird.  As far as I know the Metallic Arts are the only known way to Invest aluminum in any way.

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You could wrap your gem with some material that perfectly seals the gem, and then soulcast that material to aluminum right?

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On 10/16/2018 at 7:35 PM, John203 said:

Diamonds do not contain any aluminum, and they hold stormlight the same as any other gem.

Seeing as roshar is a different planet I think it's safe to assume that they aren't the same diamonds as we have. 

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26 minutes ago, supersmith said:

Seeing as roshar is a different planet I think it's safe to assume that they aren't the same diamonds as we have. 

They're created differently, but they are chemically the same. 

Quote

Niceratops

Not to be too obvious about being a geology dork, but if you can make clear quartz easily with soulcasting as we've seen, and you can also make radioactive materials, wouldn't it be trivial to make smokestone since defects from irradiation are what make quartz black?

Brandon Sanderson

Making unstable plutonium or the like is theoretically possible, but not something that Rosharans are aware they could do.

Emerald and Heliodor are basically the same thing, chemically, but are very different substances on Roshar--with different soulcasting properties. Same goes for quartz and smokestone.

usuyami

Is there any significance to some of the gems being forms of aluminum oxide?

Brandon Sanderson

Not really, I'm afraid. I tried to work it in, and decided I was stretching.

source

All that matters for Roshar's magics are the color. But there are mined gems on Roshar, not just gemhearts. 

Quote

ccstat

Are gems in those mined or exclusively from gemhearts?

Brandon Sanderson

Some are mined. Mining is not easy on Roshar.

source

 

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